Groups of kids

gumbry

Walking home from work, there are regularly groups of kids hanging around lidl or tesco on Thomas street, throwing things, cycling on the road, and being a general pain. What can really be done about this? Obviously you can't smack them, cos they're only about twelve. And stopping to talk or give out does no good. So what can we do? Long term an activities program, or larger police presence could help. And after the event you can call the cops. But in the moment, what can we do?

Confucius say

Feral, unruly kids with thousand yard stares are part and parcel of the inner city Dublin experience. I'm quaking in my boots even thinking about them.

Lux23

Age old question, what does one do with bored youth? In the grand scheme of things though, what harm are they really doing?

Confucius say

Lux23 wrote: »

Age old question, what does one do with bored youth? In the grand scheme of things though, what harm are they really doing?

It is a bit strange though that you only see these feral gangs of kids running around the city centre in Dublin and not in most other capitals I can think of. Dublin and 1920s New York maybe.

AnonoBoy

Lux23 wrote: »

Age old question, what does one do with bored youth? In the grand scheme of things though, what harm are they really doing?

Down my way they set things on fire and smash car windows.

So a fair bit of harm.

Dodge

Confucius say wrote: »

It is a bit strange though that you only see these feral gangs of kids running around the city centre in Dublin and not in most other capitals I can think of. Dublin and 1920s New York maybe.

Kids with nothing to do are in every single town in the world.

A thread on here won't fix that problem

Confucius say

Dodge wrote: »

Kids with nothing to do are in every single town in the world.

A thread on here won't fix that problem

Not really in the city centres though.

cactusgal

Lux23 wrote: »

Age old question, what does one do with bored youth? In the grand scheme of things though, what harm are they really doing?

Robbing bike wheels and smashing car windows in my neighborhood.

andekwarhola

gumbry wrote: »

But in the moment, what can we do?

Walk by. Go home. Get on with your life?

Lux23

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Down my way they set things on fire and smash car windows.

So a fair bit of harm.

But until they actually do that what really can you do? They do that where I live to but the do some of the adults? What are you suggesting we do? I mean I dislike kids as much as the next childless person but I respect their right to exist and spend time in public.

Lux23

Confucius say wrote: »

Not really in the city centres though.

You do, I saw it in Lisbon, Madrid, Milan, Rome etc.

Confucius say

Lux23 wrote: »

You do, I saw it in Lisbon, Madrid, Milan, Rome etc.

I didn't. Well I've never been in Rome. In fairness I haven't seen it in Dublin either in a while but I don't frequent areas these days where it may be more prevelant. Thomas St has a lot of social housing that produce kids like this but what can you do.

Lux23

Confucius say wrote: »

I didn't. Well I've never been in Rome. In fairness I haven't seen it in Dublin either in a while but I don't frequent areas these days where it may be more prevelant. Thomas St has a lot of social housing that produce kids like this but what can you do.

So did the kids attack you? Rob you?

Confucius say

Lux23 wrote: »

So did the kids attack you? Rob you?

No. I'm just saying Dublin seems to have more gurrier kids around than other western cities. I'd often see security guards being pestered or kids misbehaving on the luas or shoplifting etc from said kids. I couldn't care less really it's the op that has the problem. Oh when I lived around Smithfield there were loads actually, sometimes trying to rob my bike etc or throwing things at passers by.

Sundew

Knocking over headstones of famous Irishmen from the inner city in my area!
http://http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/grave-of-wt-cosgrave-among-13-vandalised-in-dublin-cemetery-34545663.html
My father-in- law grew up in the inner city and kids always roamed around the place however their parents usually gave a sh1t unlike the many gurrier parents around these days! ( Ggggrrrrr rant over!)

LarDuinn

Heh, when I went to NCAD I was always so wary of the wee groups until one day I was having trouble carrying a load of cardboard back to the college and some of them helped me out. Granted, a week or two after another group broke into the college and robbed the print department. You gotta remember that with the bad (who are generally the minority) there's generally a tremendous amount of good.

The problem isn't the kids themselves, the problem is the absolute lack of services or open spaces for these adolescents to avail of. No decent parks, playgrounds, sports halls, pools, anything in the area. It's like the city has given up on them. Anyone can imagine how disenchanted any 13 year old would feel in those circumstances.

Nermal

Lux23 wrote: »

Age old question, what does one do with bored youth?

Move their social housing to a ghetto somewhere outside the city so the rest of use don't have to see them.

power pants

LarDuinn wrote: »

Heh, when I went to NCAD I was always so wary of the wee groups until one day I was having trouble carrying a load of cardboard back to the college and some of them helped me out. Granted, a week or two after another group broke into the college and robbed the print department. You gotta remember that with the bad (who are generally the minority) there's generally a tremendous amount of good.

The problem isn't the kids themselves, the problem is the absolute lack of services or open spaces for these adolescents to avail of. No decent parks, playgrounds, sports halls, pools, anything in the area. It's like the city has given up on them. Anyone can imagine how disenchanted any 13 year old would feel in those circumstances.

That's completely wrong, there are more amenities and things for them to do than any other time in society. Its an age old cliche about nothing to do, its an insult.

The city hasnt given up on them, their single mother's or deadbeat parents are more than likely the reason there are so much scum on the streets. Instead of just churning them out be it in the hope of social housing or extra benefits. These types of people need to realise that they need to actually rear their children too

spurious

There are actually plenty of things to do in the inner city, many of them provided by clubs and charities for free. To be allowed continue access them however, you have to have some level of socialisation and the ability to behave in an acceptable fashion* when with others. This is where many of the feral kids fall down, due to some marvellous parenting.


*Don't break the equipment, don't steal the leaders's/instructor's stuff/don't eff and blind if you don't get your way/don't start fights/show up on time/have some consideration for other people/follow the rules of the club.

MarkAnthony

People go on about various parts of Dublin forgetting that one of the highest concentrations of 'bad' areas culminates on Thomas Street. I'd avoid them to be totally honest. Their parents are at best completely absent and at worst abusive in various forms.

What can be done is a radical change in the way we deal with out social issues. That aint happening anytime soon.

MarkAnthony

LarDuinn wrote: »

The problem isn't the kids themselves, the problem is the absolute lack of services or open spaces for these adolescents to avail of. No decent parks, playgrounds, sports halls, pools, anything in the area. It's like the city has given up on them. Anyone can imagine how disenchanted any 13 year old would feel in those circumstances.

You're aware we're talking about Dublin 8 here right? It's about 5 minutes walk from the Phoenix Park. There was access to the swimming pool at Guinesses', there are playgrounds in the apartment complexes on Bridgefoot street and more community groups in that area than in most places in Dublin.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MarkAnthony wrote: »

You're aware we're talking about Dublin 8 here right? It's about 5 minutes walk from the Phoenix Park. There was access to the swimming pool at Guinesses', there are playgrounds in the apartment complexes on Bridgefoot street and more community groups in that area than in most places in Dublin.

12-13 year olds are generally a bit old for playgrounds and swimming and picnics in the park will have lost their appeal by that stage.

What can be done? Well you're asking the wrong people. We're not 13, so we have no idea. And pretending that we do have an idea is condescending.

MarkAnthony

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

12-13 year olds are generally a bit old for playgrounds and swimming and picnics in the park will have lost their appeal by that stage.

What can be done? Well you're asking the wrong people. We're not 13, so we have no idea. And pretending that we do have an idea is condescending.

Well that's another issue. kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore. At 12/13 kicking a football around, exploring on your bikes and going swimming occasionally is exactly what they should be doing. Instead they're experimenting with drink and drugs and having their first sexual experiences.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Well that's another issue. kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore. At 12/13 kicking a football around, exploring on your bikes and going swimming occasionally is exactly what they should be doing. Instead they're experimenting with drink and drugs and having their first sexual experiences.

This is my point regarding condescention: we tell them what we think they should be doing.

Clearly, the options are of no interest to them. At least, not seven days a week. My guess is because they've outgrown them. As you said, it needs a radical solution, but Ireland doesn't do radical, so instead it just bangs its head off the wall in the hopes that when it regains conciousness, things will have changed.

Skinner: "Perhaps I'm out of touch." (Pause) "No. It's the children who are wrong."

MarkAnthony

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is my point regarding condescention: we tell themwhat we think they should be doing.

Of course we do they're Kids. The problem in that area, having lived there for over a decade, is their parents don't.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Clearly, this is of no interest to them. My guess is because they've outgrown it. As you said, it needs a radical solution, but Ireland doesn't do radical, so instead it just bangs its head off the wall in the hopes that when it regains conciousness, things will have changed.

I doubt they've outgrown it to be honest. The problem is when you can get away with being bold and your only role model is a parent/parents sitting at home/in the pub having never worked a day in their life for anything your tastes for 'entertainment' tend to be informed by that.

And before anyone accuses me of saying working class parents can't raise children, I now live in Kilbarrack where the kids are the most polite I've ever encountered. They play footie in the Cul-de-sac and the older ones make their own amusement/play sport etc. with not a bother out of any of them.

It's about time that long term unemployed people, especially those with a substance abuse problem, had much more support and indeed some intrusion into their lives and that of their kids.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Of course we do they're Kids. The problem in that area, having lived there for over a decade, is their parents don't.

Not a disciplinary issue.

I doubt they've outgrown it to be honest. The problem is when you can get away with being bold and your only role model is a parent/parents sitting at home/in the pub having never worked a day in their life for anything your tastes for 'entertainment' tend to be informed by that.

Clearly they have, or we wouldn;t be having this discussion.

If there's one thing I know about kids it;s this: if you get them interested in something, 90% of your work is done. If you don't, you're ****ed.

Thinking they should be interested in something when they clearly aren't is a waste of time. If doesn't work with adults, why do you think it would work with kids?

MarkAnthony

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not a disciplinary issue.

Sorry but you've clearly no idea of the issue if you think it isn't.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Clearly they have, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

There's fault with that logic, not only that within a ten minute walk of Thomas street there is every possible facility and entertainment.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

If there's one thing I know about kids it;s this: if you get them interested in something, 90% of your work is done. If you don't, you're ****ed.

Thinking they should be interested in something when they clearly aren't is a waste of time. If doesn't work with adults, why do you think it would work with kids?

You've undone your own argument there. So it's not that they outgrown something they simply need to be got interested in it. While I would tend to agree there, you're missing the point that they're not being normalised or socialised properly.

The majority of people of all ages would be interested in some form of sport all the facilities are available in that area. As for making them interested in things they're not, that's where parents have to be fully engaged and ensuring their children are properly engaging with School which should be taking up quite a bit of their time which it clearly isn't in that area.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Sorry but you've clearly no idea of the issue if you think it isn't.

I meant with regards to parents telling then to do. That's morality. And while I accept your point, mine was made from the point if view of recreation

There's fault with that logic, not only that within a ten minute walk of Thomas street there is every possible facility and entertainment.

Never said there was. Again: how do know this is a problem without first knowing what the kids want?

It sounds like you've given up already.

You've undone your own argument there. So it's not that they outgrown something they simply need to be got interested in it. While I would tend to agree there, you're missing the point that they're not being normalised or socialised properly.

The majority of people of all ages would be interested in some form of sport all the facilities are available in that area. As for making them interested in things they're not, that's where parents have to be fully engaged and ensuring their children are properly engaging with School which should be taking up quite a bit of their time which it clearly isn't in that area.

Not the same argument. I hypoticused that they don't do the traditional kids' things because at 13 they've outgrown them.
This was identifying the problem.

I then said they need new interests because clearly the old one are nice longer holding their attention. Find what that new interest is and your job is done.
This was suggesting an approach to solving the problem.

If we're saying they should do more school if they're bored, you've made my point for me.

join8x

Thank you

power pants

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is my point regarding condescention: we tell them what we think they should be doing.

Clearly, the options are of no interest to them. At least, not seven days a week. My guess is because they've outgrown them. As you said, it needs a radical solution, but Ireland doesn't do radical, so instead it just bangs its head off the wall in the hopes that when it regains conciousness, things will have changed.

Skinner: "Perhaps I'm out of touch." (Pause) "No. It's the children who are wrong."

They have more choices than the above

Literally any club or hobby the children can think off is available to them these days.

Its only really an issue in areas such as D8 etc. This is because the parents are non existent in general. I would be surprised if parents "tell them anything"

Canadel

People who refer to kids as being feral are c**ts.

And no, I don't doubt the extent of uncivilised and unruly behaviour exhibited by certain children. Doesn't make you less of a c**t for calling them feral though.

MarkAnthony

Canadel wrote: »

People who refer to kids as being feral are c**ts.

And no, I don't doubt the extent of uncivilised and unruly behaviour exhibited by certain children. Doesn't make you less of a c**t for calling them feral though.

If you kick your dog out and let it just do what it wants, biting people and damaging their property what would you call it?

I've nothing but sympathy for the little tykes but feral is a pretty good description of them. If you go near them and challenge them, expect to be bitten.

power pants

Canadel wrote: »

People who refer to kids as being feral are c**ts.

And no, I don't doubt the extent of uncivilised and unruly behaviour exhibited by certain children. Doesn't make you less of a c**t for calling them feral though.

judging from your remarks,I take it you were brought up "feral" too?

testaccount123

MarkAnthony wrote: »

If you kick your dog out and let it just do what it wants, biting people and damaging their property what would you call it?

I've nothing but sympathy for the little tykes but feral is a pretty good description of them. If you go near them and challenge them, expect to be bitten.

Sounds like you deserve a few slaps tbh

Canadel

MarkAnthony wrote: »

If you kick your dog out and let it just do what it wants, biting people and damaging their property what would you call it?

I've nothing but sympathy for the little tykes but feral is a pretty good description of them. If you go near them and challenge them, expect to be bitten.

Considering it's a dog, I might call it feral. I don't refer to obedient, playful children as good dogs though, nor do I imagine do you. I've used the word feral to describe groups of kids before without careful consideration, or thinking, and I was a c**t for doing so.

power pants wrote: »

judging from your remarks,I take it you were brought up "feral" too?

And I take it you were brought up to judge everyone but yourself.

I'd certainly rather be referred to as "feral" than ever fall so low as to refer to a child as such.

MarkAnthony

Canadel wrote: »

Considering it's a dog, I might call it feral. I don't refer to obedient, playful children as good dogs though, nor do I imagine do you. I've used the word feral to describe groups of kids before without careful consideration, or thinking, and I was a c**t for doing so.

And I take it you were brought up to judge everyone but yourself.

I'd certainly rather be referred to as "feral" than ever fall so low as to refer to a child as such.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make other than you don't mind the word c##t but you do have a problem with the word feral. Okay noted and thanks for that.

Rakish Paddy

Canadel wrote: »

People who refer to kids as being feral are c**ts.

And no, I don't doubt the extent of uncivilised and unruly behaviour exhibited by certain children. Doesn't make you less of a c**t for calling them feral though.

To be honest, at least in the spots where I have regularly encountered them, 'feral' is as good a word as any that I can think of to describe them - they wander in groups, harassing anyone around them and causing destruction and chaos as they go.

Now, I'm not talking about regular kids being kids and messing around and acting the bollix a bit as we all did at some point, I'm talking about these kids who are just not raised to function in a civilized society. I think the blame for kids who end up like this lies squarely at the feet of the parents (or lack of them), but I don't see why I shouldn't refer to them as 'feral'. If 'feral' is not an appropriate adjective, what is?

HeidiHeidi

adjective

1(Especially of an animal) in a wild state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication: a feral cat More example sentences Synonyms


1.1Resembling or characteristic of a wild animal: his teeth were bared in a feral snarl More example sentences Synonyms


1.2(Of a young person) behaving in a wildly undisciplined and antisocial way: gangs of feral youths More example sentences





Feral would seem to be an accurate word to use - above from the Oxford dictionary (section 1.2 bolded by me)

MarkAnthony

Will I look up the other word? :pac:

MarkAnthony

testaccount123 wrote: »

Sounds like you deserve a few slaps tbh

Seeing as this comment has been let stand I assume it's fine on this forum so I'll respond to it.

To what do I owe these 'few slaps'? I've probably done more for that community than you've ever done for yours. Am I to take it that I deserve a few slaps for my sympathy for them, the fact that I know some of the parents are completely disengaged or my vocabulary extends beyond that of Jason Statham's?

Sounds like you deserve a bit of pity at the way you were brought up tbh.

SlipperyPeople

its gas how when you open any thread on boards over 2 pages long you get people just arguing amongst themselves no matter what the topic. Its when they start trading multi-quoted posts I completely lose interest in the thread.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hungoverbunny wrote: »

its gas how when you open any thread on boards over 2 pages long you get people just arguing amongst themselves no matter what the topic. Its when they start trading multi-quoted posts I completely lose interest in the thread.

Em... you realise you're in an internet debate forum, right?

It's a but like saying that if you go into McDonald's its just full of people just eating hamburgers!

endacl

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

12-13 year olds are generally a bit old for playgrounds and swimming and picnics in the park will have lost their appeal by that stage.

What can be done? Well you're asking the wrong people. We're not 13, so we have no idea. And pretending that we do have an idea is condescending.

We'll, we've all had a year's experience of having been 13. That's more than most 13 year olds.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Em... you realise you're in an internet debate forum, right?

It's a but like saying that if you go into McDonald's its just full of people just eating hamburgers!

Discussion forum.

tricky D

Deleted User wrote: »

Discussion forum.

Mod note: Seems more like a childish bickering forum for some who need to cop on and think a lot more before they post.