Hope of owning family home

GenGenie

Hi,

Both myself and my husband have very good credit rating, combined income of €88k - we have very good careers. I own an apartment - which is rented and has great potential. He (stupidly) bought houses with his brother, away from where we live, which are also rented out but are only interest only mortgages.

We have 39k saved to buy our own house and are having trouble getting a mortgage. Seriously, what do you have to do own your own house, we have been asked to move house a few times and cannot do it to my children again.

Whats our option, go on the social housing list? Its utterly depressing. Will I every own a house at this rate?

Stheno

GenGenie wrote: »

Hi,

Both myself and my husband have very good credit rating, combined income of €88k - we have very good careers. I own an apartment - which is rented and has great potential. He (stupidly) bought houses with his brother, away from where we live, which are also rented out but are only interest only mortgages.

We have 39k saved to buy our own house and are having trouble getting a mortgage. Seriously, what do you have to do own your own house, we have been asked to move house a few times and cannot do it to my children again.

Whats our option, go on the social housing list? Its utterly depressing. Will I every own a house at this rate?

You're not a first time buyer so you need a 20% deposit.
And you won't qualify for the social housing list on joint income of 88k.

Also your existing houses will be factored in when calculating your eligibility for a mortgage. You currently seem to own several houses and an apartment between you, your partner and his brother.

Have you thought about selling one or more of those?

omb0wyn5ehpij9

GenGenie wrote: »

Hi,

Both myself and my husband have very good credit rating, combined income of €88k - we have very good careers. I own an apartment - which is rented and has great potential. He (stupidly) bought houses with his brother, away from where we live, which are also rented out but are only interest only mortgages.

We have 39k saved to buy our own house and are having trouble getting a mortgage. Seriously, what do you have to do own your own house, we have been asked to move house a few times and cannot do it to my children again.

Whats our option, go on the social housing list? Its utterly depressing. Will I every own a house at this rate?

You own an apartment and your husband part owns a house(s). You are doing a lot better than a lot of people.

It is obviously going to be a lot harder to get a mortgage seeing as you already have 2 mortgages between you. As per the previous poster, have you thought about selling what you currently have?

Butters1979

Sorry but it sounds like you own both an apartment and houses, just not the one you want to live in.

Anyway, not much information to go by there, but basically, the bank have reviewed your financial situation and decided you are too much of a risk to give you a mortgage.

To answer in more detail, how much is your apartment and other houses worth and how much equity is in them. What are your monthly repayments and how much outgoings do you have? How much do you earn from these properties in rent?

The biggest problem most likely is the houses your husband bought. Is he in a position to sell up? If they are in negative equity and you're not paying off the mortgage, then you already have large debts and the bank won't add to that.

DellyBelly

Sell both your places and use the extra money to put against your deposit. If you have negative equity in one or both the other places then forget it the banks won't go near you. I'm afraid the prospect for people who bought a place from 2005 -2011 have a very slim chance of getting something else.

intheclouds

GenGenie wrote: »

Hi,

Both myself and my husband have very good credit rating, combined income of €88k - we have very good careers.

This is just to inject a note of realism - the combined income here is low imo. Is it likely to increase in the future?

GenGenie wrote: »

I own an apartment - which is rented and has great potential. He (stupidly) bought houses with his brother, away from where we live, which are also rented out but are only interest only mortgages.

What do you mean by potential for the apartment? Could you live in it?

Why dont you sell one or more of the properties you mention above?

GenGenie wrote: »

We have 39k saved to buy our own house and are having trouble getting a mortgage. Seriously, what do you have to do own your own house, we have been asked to move house a few times and cannot do it to my children again.

Depends on the house but 20% deposit is the norm these days.

However, you already own an apartment and he owns houses, so why not live in one of those? Could your husband buy his brother out of one to live in?

GenGenie wrote: »

Whats our option, go on the social housing list? Its utterly depressing. Will I every own a house at this rate?

I think you need to sell up your current properties, save more, increase your income and then maybe the banks will be interested? Sounds easy right!

Or move into one of your current properties.

miezekatze

GenGenie wrote: »

Hi,

Both myself and my husband have very good credit rating, combined income of €88k - we have very good careers. I own an apartment - which is rented and has great potential. He (stupidly) bought houses with his brother, away from where we live, which are also rented out but are only interest only mortgages.

We have 39k saved to buy our own house and are having trouble getting a mortgage. Seriously, what do you have to do own your own house, we have been asked to move house a few times and cannot do it to my children again.

Whats our option, go on the social housing list? Its utterly depressing. Will I every own a house at this rate?

You seem to own several properties already so I think if you want to buy a 'family home' you'll need to prioritise that and maybe sell your existing properties. You can't have it all I guess, and the idea of someone on 88k who owns several houses going on the social housing list seems a bit ridiculous tbh.

snubbleste

What is a 'family home'?

McGrath5

I find it utterly depressing that a couple with 2 properties, on a combined in income of €88k with savings of €39k are having thoughts about going on a housing list.

GenGenie

A family home is something that we can all fit into it!! The apartment I have is tiny and seriously not an option to live with a family.

I know our salaries aren't fantastic, but it has allowed us to save our deposits but are banks not giving a chance to people to buy a house that they can fit into. The houses my husband owns are 3 hours away from where we are living. Yes, its ridiculous that my husband and his brother are only on interest only but his brother is in a bad way financially (owns 10 rented properties!) so he cannot afford to go off interest only.

Of course, it was rhetorical that we would go on the social housing list - I mean, I have never defaulted on a thing on my life and are hard working with a nearly €40k deposit - what else can we do to but a steady house for our kids?

Its just very frustrating. I think all your posts were a bit harsh like we are so lucky to own all these properties, I would ditch them all if I could!!

GenGenie

McGrath5 wrote: »

I find it utterly depressing that a couple with 2 properties, on a combined in income of €88k with savings of €39k are having thoughts about going on a housing list.

OMG - I didn't actually mean this!?!?!?!? It was rhetorical and I wasn't actually thinking of going on the social housing list

JimmyMW

GenGenie wrote: »

Its just very frustrating. I think all your posts were a bit harsh like we are so lucky to own all these properties, I would ditch them all if I could!!

Can you go into more detail why you cannot sell either the apartment or some of the other houses?

Stheno

GenGenie wrote: »

Its just very frustrating. I think all your posts were a bit harsh like we are so lucky to own all these properties, I would ditch them all if I could!!

So why not sell your apartment? that's one less that you have and will improve your standing with the bank?

You might say the posts are a bit harsh, but that's a bit cloud cuckoo land. You already have at least two mortgages you need to pay, one of which is interest only, a fairly small deposit for a new house, and an income level that even without the existing properties would probably only get you a mortgage of about 250 - 300k. With the existing mortgages it is most likely a non-runner.

You'll not get a mortgage in your current circumstances unless you change something about it, and save further. Where are you looking to buy your family home?

lawred2

Firstly 88k while grand isn't a huge amount of money

Especially when you seem to have already acquired a list of properties

Either sell up or put up because nobody is going to lend to you as it is.

steamsey

Hi. I had to respond as I was in a similar (ish) situation myself.

There is hope. Just because you have neg equity or 2 mortgages does not make you the pariah you once were, to the banks anyway. Certain banks' attitudes have changed towards neg equity. My advice to you is keep saving, and get yourself a good mortgage broker - they can do wonders for your application. Are you managing your bank statements and outgoings properly? If not - you need to start this asap.

intheclouds

GenGenie wrote: »

Its just very frustrating. I think all your posts were a bit harsh like we are so lucky to own all these properties, I would ditch them all if I could!!

So why cant you?

GenGenie

intheclouds wrote: »

So why cant you?

I honestly haven't put any of them up for sale yet but I will to see what happens...

mahoganygas

With respect, I find it a bit insulting that you are looking for sympathy here, and worse - another mortgage!!

It's not a great situation to be in but why on earth would somebody buy an apartment if they planned on having several children?

I had the opportunity to buy properties back in 2005 buy I didn't. I wasn't greedy. Now I'm paying ridiculous rent and struggling to meet strict FTB requirements for my first home. I've inherited a broken housing market from speculators such as yourself and I'm the one paying for it.

I'm sorry that you're struggling to provide a family home but you need to dump all of your bad investments, rent a large affordable home and start again from scratch. The speculation has to end.

GenGenie

steamsey wrote: »

Hi. I had to respond as I was in a similar (ish) situation myself.

There is hope. Just because you have neg equity or 2 mortgages does not make you the pariah you once were, to the banks anyway. Certain banks' attitudes have changed towards neg equity. My advice to you is keep saving, and get yourself a good mortgage broker - they can do wonders for your application. Are you managing your bank statements and outgoings properly? If not - you need to start this asap.

Thanks for that. Yes trying with a few brokers, yes bank statements are organised definitely. I am looking at a house for €170k so would only need a mortgage €136k so that's attainable (I thought). Thanks for your positive post though, honestly, I needed to hear something positive.

Butters1979

I think the crux of the issue is you're already in debt (I assume) and are looking to go further into debt. I understand it's not easy to get a mortgage but honestly the more in debt you are the less likely you are to be given further loans.

The best chance you have is getting rid of some of that by selling up. The problem is if you are in negative equity selling up will not get you completely out of debt.

GenGenie

mahoganygas wrote: »

With respect, I find it a bit insulting that you are looking for sympathy here, and worse - another mortgage!!

It's not a great situation to be in but why on earth would somebody buy an apartment if they planned on having several children?

I had the opportunity to buy properties back in 2005 buy I didn't. I wasn't greedy. Now I'm paying ridiculous rent and struggling to meet strict FTB requirements for my first home. I've inherited a broken housing market from speculators such as yourself and I'm the one paying for it.

I'm sorry that you're struggling to provide a family home but you need to dump all of your bad investments, rent a large affordable home and start again from scratch. The speculation has to end.

I wasn't greedy - I was told that if I didn't buy something, apartment was all I could afford at the time. Fair play to you for having the foresight not to buy, you should get a job with the central bank.

I wasn't looking looking for sympathy at all - just general advice on what to it. Apologies if I "insulted you" :rolleyes:

Stheno

GenGenie wrote: »

Thanks for that. Yes trying with a few brokers, yes bank statements are organised definitely. I am look at a house for €170k so would only need a mortgage €136k so that's attainable (I thought). Thanks for your positive post though, honestly, I needed to hear something positive.

HOw many of the ten houses does your partner have mortgages on with his brother? Is it just a few of them or all ten?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

GenGenie

Stheno wrote: »

HOw many of the ten houses does your partner have mortgages on with his brother? Is it just a few of them or all ten?

Just two

Butters1979

OP, you seem to be very busy defending yourself from people you don't need to defend yourself to. Forget about that. Plenty of people bought back then for various reasons, it's not a crime.

You've been asked a few times for more details and you haven't given us much to go on. I understand these details are very personnel so it's up to you if you want to give them, but if you don't you're not going to get much more advice.

How much in debt (mortgage still owed on the houses) are you and what are those houses valued at. What are the monthly repayments and what are you earning (after tax and expenses) through rent for these properties.

It's most likely the fact that you have both debt and outgoing expenses which make it too much risk to lend to you. I'm not sure why you would expect a bank to lend to you in this situation.

Stheno

GenGenie wrote: »

Just two

So you've three existing mortgages.

I'd say if you got rid of two of them, you'd be in a much better position.

Tigger

McGrath5 wrote: »

I find it utterly depressing that a couple with 2 properties, on a combined in income of €88k with savings of €39k are having thoughts about going on a housing list.

why?

stoplooklisten

Why not look for a job in the area and relocate to one of the houses your partner has?


Job done, family home

Butters1979

Tigger wrote: »

why?

Because with an income of 88K and already owning property, going on the affordable housing list is basically looking for a hand out when you should not need one.

It's like looking for dole money when you have a job.

lawred2

Your best hope here is to sell the apartment and apply for the mortgage on your own. Your partner's interest only mortgage are bad news really.

intheclouds

lawred2 wrote: »

Your best hope here is to sell the apartment and apply for the mortgage on your own. Your partner's interest only mortgage are bad news really.

As a married woman both of their means will be assessed for any mortgage application.

Stheno

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Why not look for a job in the area and relocate to one of the houses your partner has?


Job done, family home

OP has already said she doesn't want to move her children

lawred2 wrote: »

Your best hope here is to sell the apartment and apply for the mortgage on your own. Your partner's interest only mortgage are bad news really.

If they are married, I don't think this would be a goer, her partner would have to be on the mortgage application.

Butters1979

lawred2 wrote: »

Your best hope here is to sell the apartment and apply for the mortgage on your own. Your partner's interest only mortgage are bad news really.

If she's married she cannot apply for a mortgage on her own. The bank would insist on a joint application. And this is a good example of why they do.

Mrs OBumble

GenGenie wrote: »

The houses my husband owns are 3 hours away from where we are living.

Could you fit into one of those houses? Get jobs within commuting distance of one them?


if you think the others have been harsh, you're going to hate me:

You chose a partner who made financial mistakes. You had children with that person. Actions have consequences.


(FWIW, with my current partner, I don't have a hope of owning a property in this country. I'm well aware that sometimes people choose to let heart rule over head. But people who do that have to accept that it has consequences, and raise their children to be resilient to changes.)

pwurple

Most banks no longer count rental income as income. So if you can't offload, you might need to think of other options.

How is the apartment performing? Rents are way up, did you take the opportunity to raise the rent? (Sorry renters, but if you can't sell it, and you can't gain equity from it, then option 3 is trying to maximise the income)

How long did it take you to save that 39k? was it over ten years or shorter? If you had to save another 50, how long would it take? Could you get there faster in any way (ditching a car, taking on extra work etc)?

I know a couple who couldn't get a mortgage because they were self employed. They took their savings of 60k, and used 2 credit unions to borrow the remainder they needed as personal unsecured loans. Bought the house in cash (were able to negotiate for a lower price than with mortgage). He took a high paying job abroad for 3 years, sucked up the hardship of being away from the family and they paid the whole lot off in that time.

TheHillOfDoom

Are you saying that the rental income on the two houses your partner has an interest in is not covering the mortgage?

April 73

OP - If your joint salaries are €88k & you want to buy a house worth €170k with a 20% deposit then normally you'd be ok. Of course you mention children & the expenses associated with them have to be taken into account, but on paper those figures work.

You're coming unstuck because you have three mortgages between you & your partner. Your debt to income ratio is too high. You can't treat them as something separate to your family home as the banks will look at your total debt burden.

As things stand you're going to find it next to impossible to take out another mortgage. Your plan for a family home has to first start with unwinding yourself from the rental properties & prioritising the family home. It's not going to happen overnight but every journey starts with the first steps.

With your income & one mortgage of €136k you should be able to have a family home & a lifestyle. Take steps to exit the rental property game.

Tigerandahalf

Given that you are married would the sale money of your apartment not be chased by the bank which is owed money from your husband's interest only properties.
As a married couple your credit rating is probably very poor. Until your husband flogs his share in the other properties and has that debt sorted you are in difficulty.
A lot of people out there are caught because their partner bought an apartment that still is in negative equity. With years passing a mortgage may never happen for a lot of people.

nhunter100

JimmyMW wrote:

Can you go into more detail why you cannot sell either the apartment or some of the other houses?

I'm guessing negative equity.

stoplooklisten

How about the site your husband has in another county? Any chance you could sell it?

Damiencm

OP due to your husbands predicament I suspect you have little or no hope of securing a joint mortgage.

I expect your o/h will be on the buy-to-let mortgages on a joint and several basis i.e. liable for 100% of the outstanding debt not just half of it.

The interest only properties - is the interest only a long term contracted arrangement? Or is it reviewed annually? Either way the loans will need to be paid back at some stage.

Any mortgage provider will have great difficulty advancing funds to you and your o/h until all the buy-to-let debts are sorted out one way or another..

MarkAnthony

Ay chance of incorporating and handing off the mortgages to the company? Obviously seek proper legal advice. The upside for the other brothwer could be a lower tax bill.

Damiencm

MarkAnthony wrote:

Ay chance of incorporating and handing off the mortgages to the company? Obviously seek proper legal advice. The upside for the other brothwer could be a lower tax bill.

Due to company law, A newco could only buy the properties at their current market value. Therefore if the properties are in negative equity the brothers would be left with residual debt in their personal names... not a situation a bank is likely to assist with

the_syco

GenGenie wrote: »

Yes, its ridiculous that my husband and his brother are only on interest only but his brother is in a bad way financially (owns 10 rented properties!) so he cannot afford to go off interest only.

His brother should look at how much he'd stand to lose if he sold all of them, versus going bankrupt.

Stheno

I read through your other posts OP.

Your partner has a site he can build on, plus the properties he owns.

You have a profession which is well known for being mobile.

Perhaps look at living where you have a site/houses and reducing your debt?

quadrifoglio verde

Also out of curiosity is the 88K joint income including rental income on btls or not?

The_Conductor

OP- so your hubby has two properties on interest only mortgages- in completely and utterly unsuitable locations.

If you want to buy a 'family home'- you need to divest of your other properties and mortgages- and very possibly the site your husband has- and clear the decks.

Forget about the 'deposit' you've saved for your family home- you need to clear any and all outstanding debts.

The fact that your brother in law has 10 properties and is in a bad way financially- is not a good enough reason to drag you down forever after- but you need to realise that at the moment the two properties your hubby owns with his brother- and indeed, your own apartment- regardless of how they are performing- are millstones around your necks.

You need to forget about your 39k being a deposit- its a small lumpsum to enable you to clear the decks- and once you are clear of your debts- at that stage you can plan for the future (even if this means saving for another year or two to build up a fresh deposit for your 'family home'.

All your current debts- regardless of whether they are performing or not- are counting against you.

amdublin

Suggestion
Why not rent a "family home" for the next 20 years and when your kids are grown up and family home is not needed you and your hub move into you apartment (or one of his houses 3 hours away).

Like normally when people are renting I think but where will you leave when you retire (I. E. Bulk of your salary is gone). In this instance you have somewhere to live.

Just beaver away on the savings while enjoying a lifestyle also. If things change and you can sell some properties and buy then great but in meantime you have above as back up plan.

intheclouds

amdublin wrote: »

Suggestion
Why not rent a "family home" for the next 20 years and when your kids are grown up and family home is not needed you and your hub move into you apartment (or one of his houses 3 hours away).

Is that even possible to do in Ireland? No one would give such a long term lease and there is always the risk the landlord will decide he/she wants to sell the property. Or the rents could go so high as to be unfeasible.

I only mention it because I have some friends who have tried to do exactly that but 3 different rentals later they are now looking to buy because they cant keep changing the kids schools.

The rental market is too uncertain for families imo.

BabySlam

You already part-own three (assuming they are inhabited). Now you want a fourth.

amdublin

intheclouds wrote: »

Is that even possible to do in Ireland? No one would give such a long term lease and there is always the risk the landlord will decide he/she wants to sell the property. Or the rents could go so high as to be unfeasible.

I only mention it because I have some friends who have tried to do exactly that but 3 different rentals later they are now looking to buy because they cant keep changing the kids schools.

The rental market is too uncertain for families imo.

Apols on was not thinking of a specific house to rent for 20 years. I was saying can you not rent (albeit you may have to move some times) for the next 20 years.