Difference between being too mentally unwell and too lazy unwell to get a job

nails1

Is there a way of differentiating between the two? I know many people including friends who say they are too depressed or anxious to get a job yet are able to to everything else that doesn't involve work. They can do many other things such as going on holidays, go drinking and socialising, go to cinema etc. Yet when the idea of getting a job is suggested the person automatically becomes defensive for even bringing the topic up. I know there are many people who are too mentally unwell to do a job but I feel even many more people are using depression, anxiety as an excuse to avoid getting one.

Speedwell

Yes, let's make depressed, anxious people stay home and marinate in their depression and anxiety. How dare they try to have fun despite their difficulties? Good thing there are plenty of curtain-twitching mind-readers around to decide who is and who isn't having a hard time emotionally and keep an eye out that they're not getting out more than they should be allowed to.

McGrath5

Oh, another dole bashing thread, very original OP.

thattequilagirl

Here we go...

harry Bailey esq

Lets all laugh at people with depression.

AlekSmart

Speedwell wrote: »

Yes, let's make depressed, anxious people stay home and marinate in their depression and anxiety. How dare they try to have fun despite their difficulties? Good thing there are plenty of curtain-twitching mind-readers around to decide who is and who isn't having a hard time emotionally and keep an eye out that they're not getting out more than they should be allowed to.

Ah c'mon now...that's a bit of a stretch when the OP made no such suggestion...

Nails1: I know there are many people who are too mentally unwell to do a job but I feel even many more people are using depression, anxiety as an excuse to avoid getting one.

Nails1 has'nt suggested everybody,just a quite reasonable "many" who may fit the bill.

David McWilliams has quite an interesting blog on this very issue from 2013.....

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/04/04/the-mystery-of-disability

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-04-at-09.58.44.png

Meanwhile, the number of people leaving the labour force citing a psychological or emotional condition has risen even more dramatically – 88,000 people are now diagnosed with an emotional or psychological condition that is bad enough that they can’t work. This is a 27,000 rise from the same figure in 2006.

What has happened in the past few years to explain this dramatic increase?

Posing that question does'nt mean David McWilliams is "Laughing at people with depression"...to suggest that,is perhaps rendering one equally guilty of ignoring the plight of people who actually do suffer from depression ?

Only question of significance is whether things have improved since then...?

Earthhorse

I think we should let trained professionals diagnose mental illnesses but then again I'm probably crazy.

Ulysses Gaze

I know many people including friends who say they are too depressed or anxious to get a job yet are able to to everything else that doesn't involve work. They can do many other things such as going on holidays, go drinking and socialising, go to cinema etc. Yet when the idea of getting a job is suggested the person automatically becomes defensive for even bringing the topic up. I know there are many people who are too mentally unwell to do a job but I feel even many more people are using depression, anxiety as an excuse to avoid getting one.

Or maybe they realise that work is sh*t and would prefer to enjoy what little precious time they have enjoying themselves.

Rather than becoming an (un)willing slave.

Samaris

Oh, another one of these blasted threads.

I suppose two weeks without one was about as long as could be reasonably expected.

MarkAnthony

In all honesty I personally believe we've moved too far the otherway on mental illness. In the same way that (under medical supervision) carrying on can be the best thing for a bad back, we need to get to a happy medium where people are supported in getting back to work. The problem is how? No employer is going to take on this extra burden. Granted some, probably many are taking the piss.

I say this as someone who has had very bad bouts of depression, in some cases and at certain times the best medicine was being to to pull myself togeather and get on with it. Not always, but sometimes. People who never want to get into work, ever, aren't depressed they're lazy. People who are genuinely depressed would generally do anything to be in a possition where they were capable of returning to work.

L.Jenkins

nails1 wrote: »

Is there a way of differentiating between the two? I know many people including friends who say they are too depressed or anxious to get a job yet are able to to everything else that doesn't involve work. They can do many other things such as going on holidays, go drinking and socialising, go to cinema etc. Yet when the idea of getting a job is suggested the person automatically becomes defensive for even bringing the topic up. I know there are many people who are too mentally unwell to do a job but I feel even many more people are using depression, anxiety as an excuse to avoid getting one.

I have Bipolar 1 and General Anxiety Disorder and I work in Engineering, which can be fairly intense at times. Bouts of depression never seemed to stop me.

Hitchens

Most people hate their job



Not a lot of people know that

FortySeven

I'm bipolar and on daily Lithium. I work full time. Depression has had me off work at times but it also stops the social life. I can just about manage to get out to the shops but only after a few days of no food. I go like a ghost, get what I need and get the hell back home to my bed.

If you're out socialising you are fit for work in my opinion.

Mental illness can be incredibly debilitating. Also how one manages their struggles may not work for another. Being in the workplace can have huge challenges. Communicating, dealing with conflict, negotiating office politics, assertiveness, having confidence in your ability to do the job. These can seem insurmountable to a person with depression or GAD, and then there are personality disorders which bring a whole other set of problems.

It's great that some people who have bipolar can work in a stressful environment. Not everyone with a diagnosis of mental illness will be able to do that. Anxiety is a huge huge problem in this country. I don't think people realise just how common and extreme it is. Unfortunately meditation doesn't always work to alleviate it.

Let's just be a little kinder and compassionate towards others, instead of judging why some find it difficult to work.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

If you're out socialising you are fit for work in my opinion.

I can see why you hold this opinion but I disagree.

The workplace is a different beast to having coffee with friends. You must perform, you must manage your relationships with colleagues, you must have enough self-esteem to not crumble at criticism, you must be confident enough in your ability to do the job, if there are people who you don't get on with then you must be able to put that to one side and concentrate on your role, instead of ruminating about why such a one doesn't like me or has said a,b,c.

Life is not black and white.

FortySeven

Deleted User wrote: »

Mental illness can be incredibly debilitating. Also how one manages their struggles may not work for another. Being in the workplace can have huge challenges. Communicating, dealing with conflict, negotiating office politics, assertiveness, having confidence in your ability to do the job. These can seem insurmountable to a person with depression or GAD, and then there are personality disorders which bring a whole other set of problems.

It's great that some people who have bipolar can work in a stressful environment. Not everyone with a diagnosis of mental illness will be able to do that. Anxiety is a huge huge problem in this country. I don't think people realise just how common and extreme it is. Unfortunately meditation doesn't always work to alleviate it.

Let's just be a little kinder and compassionate towards others, instead of judging why some find it difficult to work.

Completely agree with your statement. The socialising part is where I question the validity of the claims. When I suffer from anxiety and/or depression, there is not a team of wild horses that could drag me into the company of others. Especially not a pub full of strangers.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

Completely agree with your statement. The socialising part is where I question the validity of the claims. When I suffer from anxiety and/or depression, there is not a team of wild horses that could drag me into the company of others. Especially not a pub full of strangers.

I totally get that. I just think there is something different about work, a pressure that doesn't exist when you're sitting in a pub. But all of this is so unique to the individual. Sometimes I think that gets forgotten.

Nermal

AlekSmart wrote: »

David McWilliams has quite an interesting blog on this very issue from 2013.....

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2013/04/04/the-mystery-of-disability

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-04-at-09.58.44.png

What has happened in the past few years to explain this dramatic increase?

More and more people are just incapable of dealing with the nature of modern work.

It will get worse as jobs are automated. We have to accept that a significant number of people are just unproductive and pay them SW to avoid a revolution.

Usually a war might sort things like this out, but good luck getting any of these types to fight anything other than water charges.

RobertKK

I am in the course of changing what I do for a living.
I have a farm but no help, and can't afford to bring in any more help, use contractor to do some of the work as there is too much for one person. I have been doing it near all my life, and the parents were there, but they eventually got too old and couldn't help and from having three people keeping the show on the road, I was left to do everything and on my own.
I kept it going for a number of years, but I got to the stage where I just didn't care anymore, so I made a decision to get out of what I have done all my life. I think it was making me mentally unwell, it was making me feel trapped as it was work everyday and no day off, and being on my own, I was feeling 'what is the point of all of this?'
I was suffering from severe burnout, tired, didn't care about work, feeling down, wanting to do stuff but feeling unable to, and I had to decide what to do.
So I am changing course in life, I may look like I am being lazy to some, but everyone including family and friends think I am doing the right thing.
I didn't understand burnout really, until I became affected by it and it does make working very hard. When you are tired and no longer care about your work, it is very hard to keep going at the job you once really loved.

FortySeven

eviltwin wrote: »

You are talking out of your hole, anxiety doesn't just fade away. It's a very real condition that requires intervention in order for the sufferer to take control of. Feeling anxious in situations like a job interview etc is normal. Feeling anxious walking down the street or having a simple interaction with another person is not. You are confusing the two.

Shaking like a leaf and dripping sweat from my nose. Face drenched with sweat and eyes flashing left and right like a madman, I tried to stand in the queue to sign on. Could not take it more than 5 minutes. I tried again a few times as I was not getting paid and had run out of food but couldn't take it. I ended up stealing food from supermarkets to survive until I discovered I could get in the window of a dairy at night and eat there. I was 17 years old in the early nineties in the UK. Undiagnosed and unmedicated. I ended up on the street because my rent was not paid.

All I had to do was queue and I would have been paid and my rent taken care of. Not sure I could have cured this by going to a bunch of job interviews.

PucaMama

Accepting yourself does not cure anxiety or depression! Seriously do people even think before saying these things. The amount of times I've heard about meditation also being a magical cure. Some people just can't accept that there are those that need medication and treatment.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

FortySeven

The seemingly random disappearance of posts in this thread has me questioning my sanity. Surely this is not good for a thread on mental health? :-)

KERSPLAT!

FortySeven wrote: »

The seemingly random disappearance of posts in this thread has me questioning my sanity. Surely this is not good for a thread on mental health? :-)

Banned rereg, banned and his posts and any posts quoting are removed.

You're not going mad. In this case at least :pac:

FortySeven

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Banned rereg, banned and his posts and any posts quoting are removed.

You're not going mad. In this case at least :pac:

Thanks for the explanation. 1 less of a thousand things to worry about.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

The seemingly random disappearance of posts in this thread has me questioning my sanity. Surely this is not good for a thread on mental health? :-)

I thought it was just me! Some kind of hallucinating, which would tie in well with my tendency to have conversations with myself :pac:

RayM

FortySeven wrote: »

If you're out socialising you are fit for work in my opinion.

You might be able to work on that day, but what about the next day... and the day after that? I'm no expert, but I think 'fitness for work' might (in the eyes of most employers at least) require an element of consistency. And that's before we even contemplate the whole procedure of getting a job when your confidence has been destroyed by your mental health problems.

Threads like this piss me off. I was unemployed for a (very) long time, as a result of social anxiety and depression. I always had to deal with people subtly (and sometimes not-so-subtly) implying that I was just lazy. Which didn't do my self-esteem or my employability a whole lot of good, tb perfectly fucking h with you.

I wonder sometimes if some people might be too intellectually lazy to accept that not everybody is the same as them.

Ally Dick

I haven't worked in over a year. I worked for over thirty years before that. I now want to work again. I am worried that I won't be able for it, but I have come to the conclusion that the stress of being in a job is better than the stress of being unemployed. Christmas was the clincher for me. The buzz of working around Christmas and then getting your Christmas break was missing for me this year, for the first time as an adult. I missed it so bad. I want it back now. I am going to get back. No matter how many times I fall off the horse, the more I will get back up again. God loves a trier

wokingvoter

FortySeven wrote: »

I'm bipolar and on daily Lithium. I work full time. Depression has had me off work at times but it also stops the social life. I can just about manage to get out to the shops but only after a few days of no food. I go like a ghost, get what I need and get the hell back home to my bed.

If you're out socialising you are fit for work in my opinion.

I have seen people with depression in bed unable to lift their head to drink a cup of water . My poor mother. When she would be well she could the work of ten men.

Earthhorse

RayM wrote: »

I wonder sometimes if some people might be too intellectually lazy to accept that not everybody is the same as them.

I don't think it's intellectual laziness as there is no huge intellectual feat involved. It's just a lack of sympathy or empathy.

wokingvoter

Ally Dick wrote: »

I haven't worked in over a year. I worked for over thirty years before that. I now want to work again. I am worried that I won't be able for it, but I have come to the conclusion that the stress of being in a job is better than the stress of being unemployed. Christmas was the clincher for me. The buzz of working around Christmas and then getting your Christmas break was missing for me this year, for the first time as an adult. I missed it so bad. I want it back now. I am going to get back. No matter how many times I fall off the horse, the more I will get back up again. God loves a trier

Good luck.

Ally Dick

wokingvoter wrote: »

Good luck.

Thanks very much. I feel very grateful and blessed that I am not suffering from depression. I have had some dark times over the last year, and a lot of soul searching, but am coming out stronger as a result. I've learned a lot about myself. I see that there is a purpose to it all now.

dd972

nails1 wrote: »

Is there a way of differentiating between the two? I know many people including friends who say they are too depressed or anxious to get a job yet are able to to everything else that doesn't involve work. They can do many other things such as going on holidays, go drinking and socialising, go to cinema etc. Yet when the idea of getting a job is suggested the person automatically becomes defensive for even bringing the topic up. I know there are many people who are too mentally unwell to do a job but I feel even many more people are using depression, anxiety as an excuse to avoid getting one.

OP, there are people who are the same personalities at work that they are on holiday, socialising or drinking, these people are whom I call 'Worko's', they like being there, like being surrounded by strangers and all the soap opera, small talk and tittle tattle aspects of it all, these are generally the best suited people to having a job or a workplace. Those who aren't Worko's have to be more selective about what they go for work wise.

PucaMama

PucaMama wrote: »

Accepting yourself does not cure anxiety or depression! Seriously do people even think before saying these things. The amount of times I've heard about meditation also being a magical cure. Some people just can't accept that there are those that need medication and treatment.

There's always number of those kinds of responses in these threads. Everyone's different, there's no one-size-fits-all solution for everyone. It isn't always as simple as 'pulling yourself together' or learning to meditate.

I've great admiration for the posters who've gotten either back into work after long periods of illness, or have made the decision to start again in a new career after reluctantly letting go of a working lifestyle that no longer gave them any happiness.

Ice Maiden

I have had depression (and continued to go to work, as it was actually better for me than staying at home; it was difficult but so worth it in the long term - I do realise however that some people with extremely severe depression are not able to attend work) and I don't see anything wrong with wondering what the opening poster is wondering. They have not said at all that nobody with depression should be allowed to have fun (as alluded to in post #2 - why do people jump to these responses which have no basis in what they are responding to?) they have just wondered if some people are saying/kidding themselves that they have depression in order to avoid having to go to work.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Or maybe they realise that work is sh*t and would prefer to enjoy what little precious time they have enjoying themselves.

Rather than becoming an (un)willing slave.

Thought a slave got paid nothing. Despite romantic ideals, people need an income or at least a form of self sufficiency. If a person actually chooses not to work, fine, but they should figure out their own way of financing the life they have chosen. Going on the dole just because of not wanting to work, is self entitlement gone nuts.

Hitchens wrote: »

Most people hate their job



Not a lot of people know that

I wonder how you know it.

Mozzeltoff

I was diagnosed with Anxiety about six years ago. I left my job over it. I was medicated and I ended up going to counselling for it. I was out of work for some time. There were days there that I didn't want to get out of bed, let alone go outside the front door. However I got sick of sitting at home doing nothing. I drove myself scatty and ended up having a break down mid 2013. After that I made the decision to get back working. Ended up getting a job as a kitchen porter in November of 2013.

After I got that job, I used to wake up every morning and I'd be worried sick. I remember one morning I was on the way into work and I was sobbing because I just didn't believe I could do it. I didn't want to be next or near the place. I felt like I was a failure and that I'd **** up something..all bull**** that I'd built up in my head. I ended up going anyway and getting on with it.

My confidence grew as the months went on and it turned out I actually enjoyed the work. The chef ended up getting me to help her a majority of the time and she helped me along. She talked me into going back to college and train as a chef. I applied for a course in Culinary skills in July of 2014, flew threw it but again the anxiety was nipping around in the back of my head. Constantly terrified that I'd fail the course or **** myself over with it. I didn't want to be around a lot of the class but again, I had to realise that this was all stuff built up in my head and that I needed to give myself a break.

After my exams in May last year I found a job in a hotel. I was hired as a Pastry chef and I am still there. I love the work and the place but the thoughts of going into work kill me. Again there has been times that I have sat in my room and bawled my eyes out for no real reason, terrified by nothing and worrying myself sick. I still had to go in though because the thoughts of letting the other chefs down would hurt me more.

It isn't easy and tbh I can understand why someone who has depression or anxiety wouldn't be able to face into work. I guess I am one of the lucky ones in a way. I have found work that I enjoy, might be as stressful as **** but I still enjoy it. But that doesn't mean to say that life is a bed of roses. As I said I still have bouts of anxiety but I have to get one with it. As I said in another thread, I don't get time to worry about worrying :pac:

Ice Maiden

Brilliant stuff Mozzeltoff - one of the most stressful jobs there is, and yet you are playing a blinder.

Your anxiety definitely seems to be what is holding you back at times - look at how well you're doing, yet all this worry and self doubt - but you recognise this, which is really important. And you're still muddling through it - it isn't holding you back that much (other than you having to think about it) it seems.

There's a quote (can't find the exact one; think it's Mark Twain but there are mixed results when I search for it) - to paraphrase: "I have been through many great traumas in my life, most of which never actually happened".

PandaPoo

I think it's so hard to explain to people... I ended up spending months in a mental health facility and my parents still thought I just needed a kick up the arse. When the therapist had them in for a family meeting, we discussed me being on anti depressants for the last few years. My mam said I don't need them, sure why would I need them? I had a great life with them, I'm just being ungrateful. She was taking it as a dig at her.

Some days I can take on the world, other days I close the curtains, pull the duvet over my head and scream at my husband if he tries to talk me into getting up. The look in his eyes when he sees me like that is heartbreaking, he looks annoyed but can't say that to me. He wants to help but doesn't know what to do, he'd love to shout at me but I'd just lie there staring blankly at him or I'd shout.
My son missed a lot of school because I just didn't want to face the world. I just stopped caring, it got me in some really really low places over the years. I have nightmares sometimes, Im back there, depressed, hadn't showered in weeks, eating cold beans from a tin because I was too depressed to go to the shop. I'd get takeaways and then my money was gone, wouldn’t pay my bills so they'd cut off the electricity. If I didn't have my husband that's probably the cycle I'd be in to this day.


I'm lucky that my husband works and I don't, regardless of my depression. I couldn't hold down a job the way I am,I'd have the best intentions but I'd just stop caring. That was a very depressing post, apologies.

Samaris

I was off work for a year. I was suffering from anxiety and depression brought on by post-viral myalgia after a nasty illness some years ago. It left me with chronic fatigue and an inclination to pick up any damn illness going (including swine flu, that was fun). I was going mad in the apartment day after day and no matter how I worked myself into a crying panic at night because I'd not gotten enough done during the day I just couldn't face rejections and, weirdly, selling myself for a job - you know, saying how wonderful you are and please hire me! Social life was non-existant, although I got coaxed out every so often.

I got lucky in the end, got a JobBridge internship at the beginning of the year, doing well and I love it. Managing the fatigue by going to bed at about 9.30 in the evenings to be up early the next morning and not been late for work yet (one thing that was terrifying me).

For me, although I was offered the concept of sick leave rather than jobseekers, I knew that it wasn't the best thing for me. I wasn't recovering being out of work, I was steadily getting worse.

And you know what? Being on places like Boards and constantly seeing threads about lazy people on jobseekers and the dole actually -hurt- and brought on panic attacks alone.

This is my own personal experience, it doesn't apply to everyone.

mansize

In defence of Mindfullness, it can clear a disturbed mind. I find it useful

Samaris

mansize wrote: »

In defence of Mindfullness, it can clear a disturbed mind. I find it useful

Oh, I don't say it's objectively bull****. There is no "one true way". Some people find meditation works, some people find religion works, some people need to be with others, some need to be alone, some people need mindfulness or something akin to it.

It's just silly (and rather patronising) to assume that -anything- is the ONLY solution as the poster above was indicating.

ancapailldorcha

Post by rereg troll and response deleted.

Sprog 4

It also doesn't help that the process of getting a job can be incredibly depressing in itself and exacerbate any issues someone may have. A huge number of employers wont bother to reply to an application which makes you feel like you are nothing at all. Even if you get a response there is still likely to be a lot of rejection involved. Furthermore, it is more difficult for someone even with mild depression or anxiety to come across as an enthusiastic candidate in an interview. I totally understand how people struggle to apply for jobs when they have mental health issues. Unfortunately most people just brand them as being lazy.

222233

nails1 wrote: »

Is there a way of differentiating between the two? I know many people including friends who say they are too depressed or anxious to get a job yet are able to to everything else that doesn't involve work. They can do many other things such as going on holidays, go drinking and socialising, go to cinema etc. Yet when the idea of getting a job is suggested the person automatically becomes defensive for even bringing the topic up. I know there are many people who are too mentally unwell to do a job but I feel even many more people are using depression, anxiety as an excuse to avoid getting one.

Agreed, it is a shame because it takes the integrity from those who are genuinely mentally ill.. Unfortunately it's a bit like "back pain" it's based on one persons word.