Matt Brammeier and the cold weather protocol

MPFGLB

Todasy stage of Tirreno was cancelled due to the expectation of snow on the mountains and in accordance with new cold weather protocols

Nibal and Vino not impressed with the following reported

https://twitter.com/Cyclingnewsfeed/status/709015434784346112

However Matt Brammeier had a very strong response

https://twitter.com/Mattbrammeier85/status/709034611863654401

And Tony Martin also agreeing with Brammeier

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

dastardly00

Jaysus!

Inquitus

I think Matt and Tony are right here, the rules have been agreed and put in place for a reason, doesn't mean if they don't go your way you should throw the toys out of the Pram and threaten to not ride the Giro. If he want's to skip the Giro and ride the Tour then great, I am sure his struggle to make the podium will add some interest in the fight for the minor placings.....

PringleDemon

Not for the first time , but it would appear that Nibali isn't the most popular rider in the Pro peloton.

Darkglasses

Fair play to Matt for speaking up there. Wise words also from Marcel Kittel.

https://twitter.com/marcelkittel/status/709098246589837315

https://twitter.com/marcelkittel/status/709098629131345921

MPFGLB

What I don't understand is why not wait until this morning before canceling the stage
There was little if no snow on the mountains by all accounts I saw ??

cunavalos

It appears to have been a hastily made decision which has split the peloton. Below is a picture of the finish today from pinot


There are videos from astana showing the route to the final climb with no snow on the road surface. Bearing in mind that the final climb was both the highest and most northerly point of the stage, it appears the whole stage could have gone ahead

As with all controversial decisions there are unproven allegations that some team owners had a greater influence on the race directors decision than others.
There are clear differences between Tirreno-Adriatico and Paris-Nice as the decision was made much earlier in this case,
Would there have been any benefit in waiting until this morning to make a decision as the weather forecast was not certain.
Was there enough time to arrange an alternate route avoiding the worst of the forecasted "snow".
The major safety issue with Paris Nice was the planned circuit around Mont Brouilly which would involve a descent in the snow which was not the case here as it was a hill top finish.

RobFowl

Italian races have form here.

They cancelled mountain stages in th ?84 Giro to allow Moser beat Fignon (who was demonstrably better in the mountains) and also allegedly aided him in the TT's.

If Nibali feels they could cancel stages to allow someone else win I can really see his point.

Sagan could possibly win a GT if there was not too much climbing.........

MPFGLB

But they would hardly favour Sagan over Italian Nibali ??

RobFowl

MPFGLB wrote: »

But they would hardly favour Sagan over Italian Nibali ??

Publicity is King these days.....

godtabh

I thought the riders had an input into the decision. Was that the case here?

RobFowl

godtabh wrote: »

I thought the riders had an input into the decision. Was that the case here?

I think they were consulted or at least some of the teams were

Melodeon

Did anyone else watch stage 4 again for a while 'live' on Eurosport yesterday before getting a niggling feeling of déjà vu?

MPFGLB

Melodeon wrote: »

Did anyone else watch stage 4 again for a while 'live' on Eurosport yesterday before getting a niggling feeling of déjà vu?

NO some of us were awake

Borderfox

Seen worse on the last stage of the Gorey 93 or 94 can't remember which year

cunavalos wrote: »

It appears to have been a hastily made decision which has split the peloton. Below is a picture of the finish today from pinot


There are videos from astana showing the route to the final climb with no snow on the road surface. Bearing in mind that the final climb was both the highest and most northerly point of the stage, it appears the whole stage could have gone ahead

As with all controversial decisions there are unproven allegations that some team owners had a greater influence on the race directors decision than others.
There are clear differences between Tirreno-Adriatico and Paris-Nice as the decision was made much earlier in this case,
Would there have been any benefit in waiting until this morning to make a decision as the weather forecast was not certain.
Was there enough time to arrange an alternate route avoiding the worst of the forecasted "snow".
The major safety issue with Paris Nice was the planned circuit around Mont Brouilly which would involve a descent in the snow which was not the case here as it was a hill top finish.

RobFowl

Melodeon wrote: »

Did anyone else watch stage 4 again for a while 'live' on Eurosport yesterday before getting a niggling feeling of déjà vu?

Yep ....

Looks embarrassed and edges towards door ........

D9Male

Ha yes, I did too.

It took me a few minutes to realise. In fact, my 7yo son asked me why we were watching the same race again, which is a bit shameful!

I have no love for Nibali, but I think MB is off whack here.

The weather was not bad enough to cancel. The organisers jumped the gun. People are hiding behind "rider safety". I have no desire to compromise safety, but they should have waited to see if it snowed, first.

MPFGLB

Ooops his NIbs is thinking of suing Brammeier and Martin now....and on it goes


Maenwhile

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/03/brammeier-explains-his-criticism-of-nibali-riders-all-have-to-pull-together/

Leroy42

So the riders call for some standards to be applied to avoid them being treated like cattle and be expected to race no matter what the conditions.

UCI and race organisers agree to this and have started to implement it, in this case it would have significant monetary disadvantages due to the costs of running the stage pretty much already spent but now no TV money from the coverage.

Is Nibali trying to suggest that the race organiser cancelled their own stage just for sh1ts and giggles? They looked at the weather and took the view that they could potentially be riding into some issues so took the safer option of skipping the stage. As it turned out the weather was fine but many riders have in the past complained when the Milan-SanRemo for eg was run through horendous conditions. Hindsight is great but imagine the weather had turned out worse than thought, we would have 150+ riders strung out across the mountain freezing, not to mention the spectators. And it is better that they made the call early so as to save the spectators from making the trek for nothing. Of course Nibs doesn't care if some family spends the morning standing at the side of the mountain only to be told that the race is being called off.

They can't have it both ways. So Nibali would have been happy to go ahead, but he is only one of the riders. Maybe some of the others don't think it is worthwhile putting themselves in possible harm just so he can climb up a mountain.

Matt is right on this. The riders need to stick together for the overall good. I'm sure Nibs is disappointed but stop being such a selfish ahole and be happy that at last the race organisers are actually taking account of the weather.

1bryan

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of Nibali's stance, I think the threat of legal action is disgusting. Cyclingnews is reporting that this matter is now in the hands of the Astana lawyers.

Its all a bit rich coming from a team like Astana with the history they've had. A team that had to pull out of Tour de France because their leader (Vino) had a bit of a 'mishap' with a doping control, to their dueling leaders during the Armstrong/Contador tour, through to last winter where several of their 'B' riders fell foul of doping controls (and their subsequent withdrawal from MPCC - arguably the catalyst for the ultimate demise of that organisation).

Ugh, Astana.

Darkglasses

Making empty threats to sue seems to be such a classic reflex action for arseholes these days. Look at the amount of people Donald Trump threatens to sue.

1bryan

Darkglasses wrote: »

Making empty threats to sue seems to be such a classic reflex action for arseholes these days. Look at the amount of people Donald Trump threatens to sue.

it was only last year that we had a similar case from Astana's Fabio Aru threatening similar action against Greg Henderson (though the thrust of Henderson's accusation was a bit different). Nail on the head though - its the default action of arseholes and IMO, Nibali and Aru fit that bill.

MPFGLB

Nibali and Aru fit that bill.

In airness it might be Vino steering the ship in that way

pelevin

1bryan wrote: »

it was only last year that we had a similar case from Astana's Fabio Aru threatening similar action against Greg Henderson (though the thrust of Henderson's accusation was a bit different). Nail on the head though - its the default action of arseholes and IMO, Nibali and Aru fit that bill.

Henderson straight out & very publicly accused Aru of being a doper. Nadal is threatening a French former minister with legal action for doing the same thing of him recently. Imo the arsehole is more appropriately the accuser here if not in possession of substantial facts to back up the claim. It's a huge slur on the relevant athlete - a justified slur if true, though one you should be very careful about making; & one that deserves proper retaliation if false. I think Aru's threat of legal action, like Nadal's, is totally justified in such a scenario. Not that I'm saying I have a clue about Aru's behind the scene activities.

It was a very popular thing to accuse Astana en masse last season of doping - many of which accusers would by contrast consider Sky virtuous & clean - hopefully justifiably. Then Sky sign Mikel Landa, one of Astana's real stars of last year. So what did that say? It said IF Sky are legit about being clean, they with infinitely more access to data than the public & knowing how low many view Astana, they were still so convinced Landa was behaving himself that the negative PR effects of signing him were to be rightly ignored since they had no basis in fact.
Alternatively they're not particularly concerned about his cleanliness.

If we are playing "Find the arsehole," I don't think Brammeier comes out too well here with the strength of his attack on Nibali, though I think the threat of legal action is then a totally wrong ugly response. As someone earlier said though, that may be coming from the Astana hierarchy rather than Nibali.

1bryan

pelevin wrote: »

Henderson straight out & very publicly accused Aru of being a doper. Nadal is threatening a French former minister with legal action for doing the same thing of him recently. Imo the arsehole is more appropriately the accuser here if not in possession of substantial facts to back up the claim. It's a huge slur on the relevant athlete - a justified slur if true, though one you should be very careful about making; & one that deserves proper retaliation if false. I think Aru's threat of legal action, like Nadal's, is totally justified in such a scenario. Not that I'm saying I have a clue about Aru's behind the scene activities.

Whereas I don't fully agree with you in one sense, I do agree that Aru's action was a lot less surprising and out-of-line than Nibali's. When faced with such an accusation I'd imagine one would feel the need to do something to protest your innocence.

And likewise, I wouldn't have a clue about what Aru gets up away from racing. I do recall the article from The Secret Pro around then though. It implied that Henderson was pretty much saying what a lot of folks in the peloton were thinking. Though, given that the article is penned anonymously, perhaps a pinch of salt is wise.

It was a very popular thing to accuse Astana en masse last season of doping

It was popular, I agree. But I think they didn't help themselves. Following the positives over that winter I felt they could have done a lot more to publicly refute what was being levelled at them. From a PR point of view, the last couple of years have been absolutely disastrous for them.

If we are playing "Find the arsehole," I don't think Brammeier comes out too well here with the strength of his attack on Nibali

Perhaps he could have been a little more tactful, but I have a lot of respect for people who call out bullsh*t when they see it. So I wouldn't share this opinion. I'd also have huge respect for Tony Martin who has never conducted himself in any way other than being a complete gentleman (had the pleasure of meeting him once), that I can tell.

godtabh

Suing because people were making accusations sounds like the tactics of some one else who wont be named.

D9Male

I think Nibali was perfectly within his rights to question the cancellation of the stage. It appeared that they cancelled the stage too hastily. The weather was good enough to race. They should have slept on it and taking a snow-check the morning of the race. T-A was clearly a big target for Nibali, and it seemed he was deprived of the opportunity to go for a win by an over-zealous cancellation.

That said, Nibali is a d1ck.

Leroy42

D9Male wrote: »

I think Nibali was perfectly within his rights to question the cancellation of the stage. It appeared that they cancelled the stage too hastily. The weather was good enough to race. They should have slept on it and taking a snow-check the morning of the race. T-A was clearly a big target for Nibali, and it seemed he was deprived of the opportunity to go for a win by an over-zealous cancellation.

That said, Nibali is a d1ck.

Yeah he was right to question it but not to threaten to pull out of Giro because of some unstated, but nonetheless implied, suggestion of impropriety by the race organisers.