Petrol or Diesel 3-series F31?

JiffyJ

Hi all,

After 8 years of faultless service, my 16 year old IS 200 is finally starting to show its age. Time for a new car. I like the 3 series F31 estate, thinking of taking advantage of weak sterling to do a UK import.

I'd like to stick to a big-ish engine - Just the usual problem, petrol or diesel?

I live in the city and do only 12,000km per annum. Yes - its mostly short journeys, with a 30-50km motorway drive once or twice a week. Maybe 6 longer trips around the country per year.

Doing the maths, it looks like with the 320d id save 500 per year on fuel costs alone vs 320i. Theres more choice in diesels in the UK, so not much difference in price for a 3 year old car. Resale-wise, there looks to be zero market for petrols in this country at the moment.

Reading the petrol v diesel debates on here - am I mad to get a diesel, will i end up spending a fortune on engine maintenance?

Any other thoughts?

grogi

JiffyJ wrote: »

Hi all, /.../ Any other thoughts?

Diesel will hardly bring any savings on fuel - most of the time it will not get warmed up. Resale will be better on a diesel - generally speaking the lower the tax, the better resale value.

Petrol would suit you much better - but you should be OK with a diesel. That 30-50km trip will allow the DPF to finish the burn-out phase.

The 2008-2014 BMW are famous for their N47 engine, with fatal chain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N47#Timing_chain_problems
BMW claims that the problems have been fixed in 2011... Newer cars come with B47, which shares a lot with the N47.

commited

I think resale on a decent petrol F30/31 would be fine, people are getting burnt by modern diesels now and starting to move towards petrol engines again.

Do you absolutely need an estate? The BMW 330e saloon @ €41k seems like a bit of a no-brainer (as much as any new buy) if you can handle a smaller boot. I inquired with Joe Duffy about one and they're pretty useless about getting back to me. Fairly sure that Murphy & Gunn have one for demo.

JiffyJ

Thanks lads,

330e would be almost perfect, but cant afford a new car - hoping to get a 131 estate in the UK. Interesting RE timing chain, hopefully fixed in the later cars, but must do some research.

Estate handy as hoping to be able to fit bike and gear in the back. Think it looks better too.

Is the economy of cold diesel's really that bad? The 318i's are a bit cheaper, did like the idea of 181 horsepower, but 134 is grand i guess. Also likely ill be getting a relatively high mileage ex-fleet car, so would be worried about expensive DMF, DPF servicing, etc. Pretty expensive?

colm_c

The 3-series estate isn't all that big, check out an example here before heading to the UK.

As far as engine's go, go for the 320i/d, you'll regret it if you go for the 318 IMO.

If I were you, I would tend to look at BMW garages, and get the warranty, at least you'll have some piece of mind for two years (BMW Premium selection).

It's a bit more expensive but when you're dropping a decent amount of cash in another country, it's worth it.

As for engine's, a well specced 320d F31 will be more in demand than a 320i, but if you're keeping it for a decent amount of time it doesn't really matter too much.

There's also a difference in how they drive, the d being more torquier (270 Nm vs 380 Nm) and so feels quicker, but go test drive both and see.

Also get a decent spec one, auto, leather, xenons, moon roof etc.

commited

Just a heads up on the 316 - they all seem to make more power than stated and remap amazingly well - superchips currently offering 232bhp. The engines are identical. http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/F20F21116i136PS.pdf

Have you seen this:
http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603061695685
High mileage but looks mint.

If you want lower mileage
http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603031588365
http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603011515183

I'd only consider petrol in your situation and the petrol turbo engines are great.

Re warranty - not a bad idea. Don't forget you can buy the warranty from BMW on any car as long as it has Full BMW SH.

JiffyJ

Cheers lads,

Wow - some nice machines there! Particularly like them in Grey. Still on the fence RE Petrol v Diesel, will depend on what shows up.

Another option instead of estate would be a saloon with a tow bar. Currently clip the bike rack to the boot, but wrecks the paint so wont be doing that if at all possible. Options with tow bar limited enough though and would be expensive to fit.

BMW warranty transferable across borders? Definitely worth it if so.

Have put a reconditioned rad in the IS so its still alive! Can take my time and wait for the right car to show up.

commited

By the way if you're planning to keep the car for some time, there can often be massive savings in buying a late 2012 car when it comes to VRT. It depends on what depreciation profile revenue decides on but a December 2012 car will always work out cheaper than a Jan 2013 car on VRT, same with December 2013 vs Jan 2014 etc. If you're planning on keeping the car for 10+ years, resale impact is negligible.

Re the warranty, there are a lot of options. Easiest is to buy the approved used with BMW but you will pay a hefty premium (generally). Alternatively, 2 options - buy a car out of warranty and put the warranty on yourself through BMW or if you buy a car inside the 3 year BMW warranty bracket you can extend the warranty easily. Price steps happen at 60k miles and 100k miles so a good tip is to buy a car with as close to (but below) 60k on the clock and pay for the warranty monthly. It will never go up in price, regardless of the miles put on the car.

JiffyJ

Thanks committed, will look for something under 60k miles so.

Was looking at the revenue VRT calculator, bad news for petrol - theres a €1700 euro premium for a 320i 2013 over 320d and similar for 2012 - thats petrol out of the equation for me - not too keen on chipping it!

I do low miles in general, but when I do drive its usually 30k+, so hopefully no reliability issues with a diesel.

Blazer

Only doing 12k and getting a diesel is madness.
Go for petrol. Less worries about dpf/egr/turbo blockages etc.

JiffyJ

Blazer wrote: »

Only doing 12k and getting a diesel is madness.
Go for petrol. Less worries about dpf/egr/turbo blockages etc.

I guess I just dont fully understand the issues with diesels and low mileage. All of the other numbers seem heavily weighted in favour of a diesel, so there would have to be big mechanical issues and repair costs to justify a petrol model for me.

My maths are as follows - please correct me where im wrong:

Purchase Price: No discernable difference on 3 and 4 year old 320i vs 320d on autotrader.co.uk VRT is €1,700 extra for petrol. There's also no market for second-hand petrol 3 series in this country at the moment.

Fuel Economy: Using manufacturer metrics for Petrol v Diesel, city driving, at 12,000kms pa and current price differential of petrol v diesel, im looking at a saving of €400 per annum

Tax: 320D vs 320i - €190 euro per annum

So over 5 years, general running cost savings of €3000, plus assumed VRT saving of €1700 is nearly €5k. Is servicing / repair of the diesel engine going to cost me more than that over that time period? Are they really that bad?

Idbatterim

you will be giving it a motorway blast at least once per week. With those figures, given the lack of petrols, I would be going diesel. Even if worst case and the usual diesel issues arise, worst case you would be at the same place financially, that you would be with the petrol. Also the love of diesel here and the fact is is currently cheaper at the pump, leads to buyers placing a premium on them, too much in my opinion, but thats their business...

ShiverinEskimo

For low mileage, short trips modern diesel engines throw up issue after issue with the DPF and EGR valve in their efforts to reduce emissions.

EGR valve replacement can be upwards of a thousand euro to fix and will wipe out any long term savings on fuel you might budget for.

JiffyJ

Thanks lads - i need to do more research! The last thing you want is to be feeling you have to go out for an hour up and back the motorway every week, sure thats no way to live!!

A hybrid would be ideal for me. Maybe ill wait a year and see if I can pick up a 330e.

JiffyJ

Gone off the estates now, looking at 2013 saloons. Found a potential petrol option that might suit me - the 320i EfficientDynamics. Its actually a 1.6l but its a twin turbo which somehow brings performance up close to the 320i/320d. Low CO2 (125) so assuming VRT would be reasonable too, its not on the ROS calculator.

Thoughts on this option? Dont really like the look of the ED, especially the tiny wheels. Again, there's very little choice in the UK and the prices are basically the same as the 320d. For example:

320i ED:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603232261175?sort=default&model=3_series&maximum-badge-engine-size=1.6&search-target=usedcars&page=1&fuel-type=petrol&make=bmw&aggregatedTrim=320i&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&maximum-mileage=up_to_60000_miles&postcode=b323pp&maximum-age=up_to_3_years_old&searchcontext=default&radius=1500&logcode=p

320d Sport:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602100908681?searchcontext=default&maximum-age=up_to_3_years_old&postcode=B32%203PP&aggregatedTrim=320d&maximum-mileage=up_to_60000_miles&model=3_series&sort=default&make=bmw&keywords=-efficientdynamics&page=1&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&search-target=usedcars&radius=1500&logcode=p

At this stage im back to thinking diesel is my best option, despite my low miles. Try get one with relatively low mileage, get it checked out and hope for relatively few mechanical issues over the next few years.

Any final challenges from the petrol-heads on here??? :D

Idbatterim

if you got the ED petrol, you could always change the wheels. Difference in vrt rate is only 1% in diesels favour. E70 year cheaper on tax. Id check with insurance to see what difference in premium is ,,,

JiffyJ

Thinking of making an enquiry on this one, what do people think? Would have to stretch the budget but looks loaded with options, also has the tow bar - be definitely worth it if its in good nick.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603162012705/usedcars?desc=1

Will keep 320 petrol ED in mind alright - pretty poor selection up for sale atm, xenons are also mandatory for me.

bazz26

Decent spec for a 3 Series - Visibility pack, connected drive, pro nav, heated electric memory seats and sport automatic gearbox. Red leather is a bit loud for me and an acquired taste but suits the exterior grey.

R.O.R

Nice - love the Red leather. Suspect that was a BMW UK car to begin with as it's got more or less every option thrown at it.

Full Factory Spec:
Order options
No. Description
XE7 IND.INTERIEUR T.PIANO FINISH, BLACK

1CA SELECTION COP RELEVANT VEHICLES

2PA LOCKING WHEEL BOLTS

2PE 18"M LT/ALY WHEELS STAR SP. 400M/MT

2TB SPORT AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION

2VF ADAPTIV M SUSPENSION

230 EU SPECIFIC ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT

249 MULTI-FUNCTION FOR STEERING WHEEL

258 RUNFLAT TYRES

3AC TRAILER TOW HITCH

302 ALARM SYSTEM

320 MODEL DESIGNATION, DELETION

337 M SPORT PACKAGE

4DM HIGH.TRIM FIN. PEARL GLOSS CHROME

423 FLOOR MATS, VELOUR

428 WARNING TRIANGLE

431 INTERIOR RR VW MIRROR W AUT ANTI-D

459 SEAT ADJUSTM., ELECTR. W. MEMORY

465 THROUGH-LOAD SYSTEM

481 SPORT SEATS F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER

493 STORAGE COMPARTMENT PACKAGE

494 SEAT HEATING F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER

5AC AUTOM. HIGH-BEAM HEADLIGHTS CONTROL

5DA PASSENGER AIRBAG DEACTIVATE

5DC FOLDING REAR-SEAT HEADRESTS

502 HEADLIGHT WASHER SYSTEM

508 PARK DISTANCE CONTROL (PDC)

520 FOGLIGHTS

521 RAIN SENSOR

522 XENON LIGHT

524 ADAPTIVE HEADLIGHTS

534 AUTOMATIC AIR CONDITIONING

544 CRUISE CONTROL WITH BRAKING FUNCTION

563 LIGHTS PACKAGE

575 ADDITIONAL 12V POWER SOCKET

6AA BMW TELESERVICES

6AB CONTROL TELESERVICES

6NL CONNECT. BLUETOOTH A.USB DEVICES IN

6WA INSTRUMENT CLUSTER W. EXTENDED CONT

609 NAVIGATION SYSTEM PROFESSIONAL

612 BMW ASSIST

615 EXTENDED BMW ONLINE INFORMATION

616 BMW ONLINE

654 DAB TUNER

698 AREA-CODE 2

710 M LEATHER STEERING WHEEL

715 M AERODYNAMICS PACKAGE

760 INDIVIDUAL HIGH-GLOSS SATIN CHROME

775 INDIVIDUAL ROOF-LINING ANTHRACITE

8KA OELSERVICE INT. 30.000 KM/24 MONTHS

8SC COUNTRY SPEC. RELEASE OF TELESERVICE

8SM VIN, VISIBLE FROM OUTSIDE

8S2 CODING OF ALARM SIGNAL

8S3 AUTOMATIC LOCK WHEN DRIVING AWAY

8TG ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM

8V1 NCAP LABEL

812 ENGLAND VERSION

850 ADD FUEL TANK FILLING FOR EXPORT

880 ENGLISH / ON-BOARD DOCUMENTATION

JiffyJ

So I gave them a call.

Its been serviced at BMW, and will be an approved used car, so will come with a 12 month manufacturer warranty. Wondering if theres any point getting the full RAC / AA check done? This is near the top of my budget so any saving would be welcome.

They are going to send me through the service details, etc, and build date so I can check if its after the March 2011 timing chain fix. Also ownership history. She says there's a small scuff on the back bumper, going to send me a pic too.

Its "VAT qualifying" does this mean I can reclaim UK VAT and effectively avoid paying VAT altogether if I register it through my company?

grogi

JiffyJ wrote: »

So I gave them a call.

Its been serviced at BMW, and will be an approved used car, so will come with a 12 month manufacturer warranty. Wondering if theres any point getting the full RAC / AA check done? This is near the top of my budget so any saving would be welcome.

They are going to send me through the service details, etc, and build date so I can check if its after the March 2011 timing chain fix. Also ownership history. She says there's a small scuff on the back bumper, going to send me a pic too.

Its "VAT qualifying" does this mean I can reclaim UK VAT and effectively avoid paying VAT altogether if I register it through my company?

You would pay the VAT and VRT here and then get a VAT refund from UK.

But remember that when privately driving a company car for you are liable for additional income tax. AFAIK 25% of NEW Market Value is added to your gross income for liability calculation.

JiffyJ

Thanks Grogi - company car wont make any financial sense so.

Thoughts on skipping RAC & HPI check? BMW approved with 12 month warranty in Ireland, so im thinking im well covered?

JiffyJ

Going to try negotiate a deal on this one today. What are peoples thoughts on whether I should be getting an RAC / AA check? Is that necessary for a BMW approved used car from a main dealer?

Leonard Hofstadter

JiffyJ wrote: »

They are going to send me through the service details, etc, and build date so I can check if its after the March 2011 timing chain fix.

They still suffer from the timing chain problem even if they've got a build date after March 2011.

You're caught between a rock and a hard place to be honest, a diesel doesn't suit you, and there is the well documented timing chain issue with N47s. On the other hand a petrol will be very undesirable (there is a move back to petrol with new cars, but it's mostly with smaller sized cars where the gap in price between a new petrol and diesel is getting back to what it used to be because the latest generation petrols are very good for CO2 - at least on paper), and there is no hope of finding a petrol 3 series estate in the UK (I know because I live there).

You should be able to find a petrol 3 series saloon over there handily enough, though, but I've never seen a 320i ED. I'd definitely be going for a 320i/d, a BMW is a drivers' car so there's no point in buying mutton dressed as lamb. Also, you're coming from a Lexus with its silky smooth six cylinder petrol engine, so anything smaller will be a disappointment not only from a refinement perspective, but a performance perspective as well (a 320i/d will be miles faster than an IS200).