Hudleing on the public street

kildarejohn

Availing of the free access last week to Findmypast.ie, I found some Petty Session court records where possible ancestors were charged with various offences, mainly allowing pigs and asses to wander. But one charge I could not figure out was "Defendant being found Hurdleing in the public street of Kildare on 17th ult (1852) to the danger of the Passengers".
Presumably the passengers referred to are passengers on the mail coaches which regularly passed through.
3 people were charged with this and fined respectively 6d, 1/- and 1/6. But what was Hurdleing - were they having a running race jumping hurdles? or racing horses over hurdles? or putting up hurdles to fences in animals? or were they playing Hurling.

kildarejohn

Availing of the free access last week to Findmypast.ie, I found some Petty Session court records where possible ancestors were charged with various offences, mainly allowing pigs and asses to wander. But one charge I could not figure out was "Defendant being found Hurdleing in the public street of Kildare on 17th ult (1852) to the danger of the Passengers".
Presumably the passengers referred to are passengers on the mail coaches which regularly passed through.
3 people were charged with this and fined respectively 6d, 1/- and 1/6. But what was Hurdleing - were they having a running race jumping hurdles? or racing horses over hurdles? or putting up hurdles to fences in animals? or were they playing Hurling.

L1011

I would suspect hurling, it was sometimes played on roads.

tabbey

L1011 wrote: »

I would suspect hurling, it was sometimes played on roads.

That was my thought also. And before anyone complains of gaelic games being penalised, cricket playing was also prosecuted.

Both games would be highly dangerous in a crowded street.

tabbey

Kildarejohn, I was going to look up the case, to see who these naughty delinquents were, but you did not say what date the session took place, only that the offence was committed the previous month, 17th ultimo.

pedroeibar1

I cannot access the record, but could "Passengers" not correctly be 'passers by'

tac foley

Likely to be playing Hurling, methinks.

It can be dangerous enough when you are actually involved, so clouting a non-playing passenger on a local people carrier behind the ear with a good high strike could well be taken for thuggish behaviour by the [probably] English magistrate at the time.

tac

jonniebgood1

Interesting this. Im not so sure on the hurling. By 1852 hurling was at a low ebb. Previous support from the gentry had ended during the time of O'Connell and heightened political awareness. Closely followed by the famine the southern form of hurling was isolated to cork city, Galway cith and parts of wexford. Not definitive by any means but it suggests hurling in kildare was as unlikely then as now.

The Chieftain

kildarejohn wrote: »

Availing of the free access last week to Findmypast.ie, Hurdleing in the public street of Kildare on 17th ult (1852) to the danger of the Passengers".

Kildare is on the Dublin-Cork railway. Does the "public street" run by the station or railway? Mail coaches were a thing of the past by 1852, done in by new fangled technology.

The Chieftain

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Interesting this. Im not so sure on the hurling. By 1852 hurling was at a low ebb. Previous support from the gentry had ended during the time of O'Connell and heightened political awareness. Closely followed by the famine the southern form of hurling was isolated to cork city, Galway cith and parts of wexford. Not definitive by any means but it suggests hurling in kildare was as unlikely then as now.

I agree. Hurdling would be a reasonable fit. Probably just meaning running along and jumping over things as opposed to a formal course.

kildarejohn

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I cannot access the record, but could "Passengers" not correctly be 'passers by'

tabbey wrote: »

Kildarejohn, I was going to look up the case, to see who these naughty delinquents were, but you did not say what date the session took place, only that the offence was committed the previous month, 17th ultimo.

The Chieftain wrote: »

Kildare is on the Dublin-Cork railway. Does the "public street" run by the station or railway? Mail coaches were a thing of the past by 1852, done in by new fangled technology.

Thanks for comments all.
Pedro - no doubt its passengers - see image
tabbey- offence was 17/10/1852 and court 4/11/1852
Chieftain - railway started 1850, but maybe some coaches running still in 52? Station is half mile outside town, so road to station would not be called a street.
Another thought - I referred to 3 defendants, but that was on the page I accessed - there could be more on the next page.

pedroeibar1

KJ, thanks for putting up the image. I'd guess in the context of passengers, it was "hurtling" i.e. driving a horse & car too fast.

Jellybaby1

I'd have to go along with 'hurrdleing'. Simply because I remember hearing the word 'hurling' pronounced as 'hurrdleing' when I was a child. Maybe the arresting officer had that accent and the clerk wrote it as he heard it. I also remember the word 'girl' being pronounced as 'gerrdle', and occasionally still do hear it, i.e. 'yerrah, dat little gerrdle couldn't lift dat bag of oats, bye'. If you get my drift.

L1011

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

KJ, thanks for putting up the image. I'd guess in the context of passengers, it was "hurtling" i.e. driving a horse & car too fast.

I really doubt that was a named offence - well, not *that* name.

P. Breathnach

Kildare is not a county known for hurling.

It's horse country, and I visualise racing over hurdles - but I think I am letting my imagination run riot.

kildarejohn

kildarejohn wrote: »

tabbey- offence was 17/10/1852 and court 4/11/1852

Another thought - I referred to 3 defendants, but that was on the page I accessed - there could be more on the next page.

tabbey wrote: »

Kildarejohn, I was going to look up the case, to see who these naughty delinquents .

If tabbey or anyone else wants to look up records, see dates above. Defendants were Patrick Garry, James Cavanagh and Thomas Mooney and the Complainant was Acting Constable Patrick Campion.
As mentioned above can anyone find the next page in the records? If we found there were 10 more defendants charged it would be good proof it was Hurling rather than Hurtling(a cart). By the way, I found that on the same day (4/11/52) there were people charged with licensing offences relating to Curragh Races - so the Hurling/Hurdling/Hurtling on the street might have been part of the racing festival celebrations.

pedroeibar1

Ok, I accept hurling.

It was an action brought under Section 14 of the Dublin Police Act, 1842. This Act also covered counties Wicklow and Kildare

Section 14 deals with 'Prohibition of nuisances by persons in public thoroughfares'

Paragraphs :-
5. Every person who shall ride or drive furiously, or so as to endanger the life or limb of any person, or to the common danger of the passengers in any thoroughfare:

and

17. Every person who shall fly any kite or play at any game, to the annoyance of the inhabitants or passengers, or who shall make or use any slide upon ice or snow in any street or other thoroughfare, to the common danger of the passengers:

The full Act is here

Jellybaby1

On the peril of your life, do NOT fly that kite!

jonniebgood1

2 identical threads merged.
Moderator

tac foley

Could it have been 'huddling', or gathering together in groups large enough to arouse suspicion in the minds of the authorities?

They were fractious times, to say the least.

tac

kildarejohn

tac foley wrote: »

Could it have been 'huddling', or gathering together in groups
tac

The title of the thread "Hudleing" might be confusing, this is a typo but I cant edit it, the actual word in the court record is "Hurdleing".
Pedroibar's quote from the legislation in his post shows that the wording of the charge against the defendants mirrors closely the wording of the Act prohibiting games, so it must have been a game on the street, and therefore I think we can be 90% sure it was Hurling.

tabbey

I am fairly sure it is hurling.

I have never heard of persons being charged with jumping over hurdles in the street.

If a vehicle was hurtling down the street, the driver would be charged with furious driving, occasionally with cruelty to the horse.

Hurling and cricket in the street, was a chargeable offence, because the ball was hard and injurious to heads, and to windows. The latter was possibly more important, as it was property, more valued than some sectors of society.

in theory, any leisure on the street could be prosecuted, but magistrates would probably dismiss the charges. I recall reading in a paper about 1910, a letter from a father whose young son had been threatened by a constable for rolling his hoop down a residential road.

jonniebgood1

I haven't viewed the page, are there any other spelling errors on it?