Notice required if misled by employer

SwdDub

I'll try and keep it as short and sweet as possible and stick to, and include, the important facts here

I started a new job about 2 months ago. I interviewed etc.. and was eventually offered the job by the MD and 96% owner.

The start was to be almost immediate due to their need. I was made verbal promises on my contractual situation including pay, holidays, sick leave etc.. etc...

I asked for a written contract from day 1 and have always been given the brush off or fobbed off with an excuse as to why it wasn't forthcoming.

In the interim the boss seems to be making up the terms of my "contract" on the fly. My pay isn't at the agreed scale, I have been given restrictions on time off way outside those agreed verbally. We're not talking weeks off here. I'm talking a half day to take a sick relative for medical appointments. Add to that I am generally treated quite poorly on a day to day basis.

Long story short I want to get out the door. The job is certainly not as advertised.

However I want to know if I need to work any notice. I know the statutory is 1 week. However, given that I have been wholly misled on all counts, would I really have to work that week in what, if I handed in my notice, certainly be a hostile working environment?

Any help or solid advice with this would be most appreciated.

Cheers

Dyr

If you haven't been given a written contract then they're in breach of emploment law. I wouldn't worry too much about any notice period.

esforum

I know they must give you either a contract or terms of employment within I think 2 weeks of starting. How failing to adhere to that leaves you I cant say but 1 week is all you need give and dont be shy about telling them

or act the prick, arrive late, slack off and get sacked safe in the knowledge that you ****ed him like he ****ed you, reference probable wont be forthcoming anyway

Fred Swanson

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seamus

You have no contract and are there less than 13 weeks so you can legally text him right now and tell him that you won't be coming in anymore.

Though if he owes you money you may have to write that off.

SwdDub

Cheers for the replies.

Fred Swanson it's just over 2 months now and nothing is forthcoming just for the record.

I'd wager he uses his 'method' to exert undue control over new employees.

Seamus thanks for that. Do you have a direct link (or a good idea where else) to the 13 week thin being legally binding.

If it is true I will leave immediately but if it's not I can see this guy doing his best to make things awkward as possible

Penny Tration

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/changing_job/giving_notice.html


There's a link about the notice.

No notice at all is required (unless you've signed a contract agreeing to a notice period, which you haven't) if you've been working less than 13 weeks.

esforum

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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my mistake

Victor

You could make a complaint and get compensation.

orl

Victor wrote: »

You could make a complaint and get compensation.

Yes and decisions are anonymised so you won't turn up on google. all you would get is €500 for not being issued your terms and conditions of employment within the required period. complaint forms are on workplacerelations.ie

TheNoShow

I'm in somewhat the same boat myself I delighted to find the thread. Thatnks to the OP and all those who replied. My 8 weeks will be up soon and I've no contract. I plan on leaving and using the complain form mentioned in the posts above.

Just 1 bit of extra help needed. What is the best way to quit to cover myself legally in terms of making the compalint. I am the kind of person who would have no problem doing it face to face but the boss is a complete spacer who sometimes has fits of rage. I really dont want to be involved in a big scene.

Would it be alright to just email him that I have left and avoid a big fiasco? Or do I need to do it in person

billy few mates

TheNoShow wrote: »

I'm in somewhat the same boat myself I delighted to find the thread. Thatnks to the OP and all those who replied. My 8 weeks will be up soon and I've no contract. I plan on leaving and using the complain form mentioned in the posts above.

Just 1 bit of extra help needed. What is the best way to quit to cover myself legally in terms of making the compalint. I am the kind of person who would have no problem doing it face to face but the boss is a complete spacer who sometimes has fits of rage. I really dont want to be involved in a big scene.

Would it be alright to just email him that I have left and avoid a big fiasco? Or do I need to do it in person

I'm personally a big fan of the big fiasco in cases where I have the upper hand...:)

TheNoShow

Well I'm not. I'd rather keep it as professional as possible. So thanks for that and all but if there is anyone out there with solid advice on the matter I would appreciate it.

Water John

Not a specific contribution but some employers in Ireland are right gob****es.

SwdDub

orl wrote: »

Yes and decisions are anonymised so you won't turn up on google. all you would get is €500 for not being issued your terms and conditions of employment within the required period. complaint forms are on workplacerelations.ie

Sorry to be at yous again lads but I've done this now. How long does the process take do you know. Just curious

Victor

SwdDub wrote: »

Sorry to be at yous again lads but I've done this now. How long does the process take do you know. Just curious

It would depend on things like if the employer admitted it, if it went to oral hearing, etc. Several weeks to several months.

SwdDub

Thanks. He won't admit it. I'd die of shock if he did. Didn't realise it had potential to be that long and drawn out

SwdDub

How's it going lads and ladies.

Just to bump this back up. I have finally received the employers reply to my complaint. The whole process seems to take at lot longer than it's supposed to.

Anyway the employer denies the claim and it now looks set to go to mediation. However in his reply to my complaint he makes some pretty outrageous (and untrue) accusations about me. I don't want to get into posting it on here so if anyone has had to go to mediation in a case like this, or has relevant experience of these things, could you shoot me a PM please.

Thanks again

billy few mates

SwdDub wrote: »

How's it going lads and ladies.

Just to bump this back up. I have finally received the employers reply to my complaint. The whole process seems to take at lot longer than it's supposed to.

Anyway the employer denies the claim and it now looks set to go to mediation. However in his reply to my complaint he makes some pretty outrageous (and untrue) accusations about me. I don't want to get into posting it on here so if anyone has had to go to mediation in a case like this, or has relevant experience of these things, could you shoot me a PM please.

Thanks again

Lucky you, constructive dismissal AND defamation.....:)

SwdDub

Cheers for the moral support but I would still love to speak to someone who has some experience of this themselves. The reply to my complaint doesn't really address the fact I was never given terms of employment within 8 weeks. There is a line at the top claiming I didn't work 8 weeks there (which I did) and therefore the complaint is invalid. The other 90% of the reply contains a lot of personal slurs against me as well as a load of other made up stuff.

I have no experience of this kind of carry on at all and would appreciate some help or guidance if that's possible.

Thanks again

Fred Swanson

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SwdDub

Unfortunately I can't afford one. What I might or might not win isn't likely to cover the cost of one either.

SwdDub

I went to the WRC hearing so will finish off this thread as it may prove useful for others in the future. Obviously I can't go into the specifics but just give you a broad overview.

First off let me tell you that the process turned out to be absoultey nothing like it was purported to be by the WRC under their own rules. I'll leave aside the delays because of a backlog or whatever and cut to the chase.

The employer in this case refused to attend mediation and skipped to adjudication.

I was told, by the WRC when I contacted them about the process, that in adjudication both parties would state their case in turn. The adjudicator would ask any questions he felt were relevant and would then make his decision. I was told the adjudicator would act as a neutral party when it came to judgement.

I asked, as my employer has a bit of a temper, what would happen if I wasn't allowed to speak my part and was told, by the WRC, that if he attempted to interrupt or impede me that I could ask for him to be removed and that I was entitled to say my piece. So keep that in mind.

On the day I showed up at the assigned location. There was no waiting area and I was told to go wait in the canteen. In the canteen was my employer and a couple of his other staff. They proceeded to be verbally abusive to me while we waited. However there was no one even close to 'official' to do with the case to note this. There was just the lady behind the counter attending to her food.

We went into the room and the proceedings began. The adjudicator read the complaint and asked my employer if he denied anything that I had said. My employer said no. Happy days, open and shut I thought. What more is there to talk about if he accepts his guilt.

The 'neutral adjudicator' then spent the next 25 minutes berating me for not 'just getting on with it'. Telling me I was 'lucky I was given a job' and that I should 'get over myself' complaining about not having a contract. All while the three people from my former job heckled me constantly. I asked at one stage did I have to put up with it and was told to 'stop complaining and get on with it'.

Eventually, when I wouldn't back down or withdraw the complaint, the 'neutral adjudicator' concluded that we were there because of a specific law (I forget which section and article specifically) He aplogised to the employer but told him there was nothing he could do if he didn't deny the complaint and that he was sorry that Mr SwdDub 'dragged us all here today'.

I looked up the neutral adjudicator when I went home. He works for a consultancy firm that represents employers in cases of contract law. He was the furthest thing from neutral I can imagine. Despite the fact the employer didn't deny breaking the law I was the one who was absolutely roasted.

God knows what would have happened if the employer had offered even the slightest defence rather than just accepting what he did. The adjudicator probably would have sentenced me to 6 months in a gulag or something :rolleyes:

Long story short here lads and ladies, the whole process is a lot less straightforward than it claims to be. I am not the toughest nut in the world by any means but was always taught to stand up for myself. However if you were of a nervous disposition, or were there because you had been bullied by an employer, or if you don't like confrontation generally speaking, then this process has the possibility to be a very intimidating or scary process.

Dyr

Pretty sure the officers are often drawn from former staff of trade unions or the likes of IBEC. So its often pot luck

In fairness I was at one where the employer thought he was going to run the process and he was told to keep his bake closed unless he was given permission to speak

It's a crap system and it really is hostile to an employee who's going to have to go in on their own.

SwdDub

I'm sure they aren't all the same. I wouldn't suggest otherwise but, that said, it was a very unpleasant experience and that was even with there being no counter argument from the employer.

You might get the most neutral person ever. Or you might get lumped with the situation I was in. It's worth saying it for people to know if they every come across this in a search in future. I'd definitely have brought someone with me, even for moral support, if I'd known I was going to walk into something that hostile.

Fred Swanson

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nuac

Mod
I agree with Fred Swanson. No solicitor would accept that conduct from the adjudicator or the other side.
As the matter is finalised, closing thread