Martini-Henry

james998964

Hi, looking for information on whether a Marti-Henry is regarded as antique. Looking to buy one from the us but want to find out first. Information seems to be scarce. All I have found is that if it uses a cartridge it is not considered antique but that's anecdotal. I know they are considered antique in most of Europe. Can anyone point me in the right direction please? The rifle is from 1870s.

Thanks

Cass

This is a problem area.

We have one set of laws that say antique is anything over 100 years:

Every antique being, subject to and in accordance with regulations, one or more goods which are shown to the satisfaction of the Revenue Commissioners to be more than 100 years old

then we have An Gardaí that state the firearm must be produced before 1845 and not use a cased cartridge

If the person wishes to import antique firearms the importation licence is issued subject to the condition that the weapons are submitted to the Ballistics Unit of the Garda Síochána (Police) for examination. Antique weapons are those manufactured pre 1845 which have an ignition system that does not utilise cased ammunition.

as well as a previous Justice minister giving yet another definition.

The restrictions imposed by the firearms Acts do not apply to any antique firearm which is sold, bought, carried or possessed as a curiosity or ornament. Generally, firearms manufactured before the mid 19th century which do not utilise modern type ammunition would be classed as antique firearms.

The problem comes from no definite description of exactly what antique is when relating to firearms. The 1925 Act, section 26 says:

26.—(1) Nothing in this Act relating to firearms shall apply to any antique firearm which is sold, bought, carried, or possessed as a curiosity or ornament.

This contradicts, to an extent, all the above.

If you go by An Gardaí your rifle does not qualify. If you want it for a decoration and go by the 1925 Act you're fine-ish, but not only is it hard to say which is the right or correct course of action it means if you take one (as you cannot do them all) you could fall foul of the others.

Sparks

We don't actually have an official legal definition in Ireland of when a firearm is considered an antique
Or more accurately, we have several, all mutually exclusive or mostly so, and all from different places, with no clear idea of which wins.

It's come up a few times before:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87373749
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81072893
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79840159
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56385649
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54077847

Deaf git

What is the significance of the year 1845? Or is there any real significance at all?

Cass

This is only a guess but it may have something to do with the "modern" cased cartridge was invented in the mid 19th century (1845) and the anything before this being deemed antique because of paper or non metallic casings.

In reality i really don't know. I can only quote the above as having been given as their stance on the matter without any explanation as to why.

Deaf git

A few years ago I wanted to buy a flintlock pistol made in Dublin in 1770 approx. The local advice from the station was it would need to be deactivated by drilling the barrel and welding in a crosspin or two. I figured this would destroy it's value so shelved the idea.

james998964

Shame it's not explained clearly by the law. By the laws definition I should be fine but I don't want to pay for it, import it and then fall foul of the Gardai interpretation. Head scratcher.

Cass

It could always be deactivated, but what they will demand to make that a reality is anyones guess and also do you fancy doing whatever they ask to the gun to make is so?

james998964

Cass wrote: »

It could always be deactivated, but what they will demand to make that a reality is anyones guess and also do you fancy doing whatever they ask to the gun to make is so?

To be honest I don't fancy deactivating it. Feels like I would be destroying it plus hassle, cost etc. Was hoping to restore one of the IMA Mk IV pattern A rifles as a project.

Cass

Hence my point about what they may ask you to do, to what you are wiling to do.

As said above the Gardaí opinion is different to others and even the law, to a degree, but they are the ones issuing the licenses and go ahead so i'd be looking more towards them. However i would not talk to an FO or anyone at a "desk level". As mentioned on the threads Sparks linked to they don't have the adequate knowledge or training to accurately answer the question. I'd look towards the Super, the FPU, and even contact the DoJ.

Grizzly 45

Why not have a scour of all the gunshops?I have seen a few MH issue rifles for sale about the country that were converted into all sorts of horrible things
.Like .22, 20 gauge and what not.An especially rare one bing an RIC mdel that shot a 14 gauge specific type of ammo to the gun.Theory was if one of our ancestors aquired it,he wouldnt have much ammo to use it for long.Value had been ruined by it being bored out to 12 gauge.Be a hell of a restoration project if you got a MH here and got it re set to .303,but it would be saving a historical piece too.