e39 to e60 bmw - initial feelings of disappointment

bmwguy

I have a 2004 525i sport and it has served me well for the almost 4 years I have had it. Previous to this I had a 2001 530i sport which I also loved. I bought that one in 2008, kept until 2011 and foolishly sold it. I moved to an Alfa 156 then and while I actually liked that car I kept it less than a year and actually moved down years to get back into an e39, the one I have now. Now the itch is there to change and the obvious choice would be an e60 so I started test driving and looking in the last week. I have driven 3 of them now, a 520d, a 523i and a 525i. All were automatics, and all were sport models. I dont really have a preference for the petrol and diesel but I do think I will stick with petrol. All 3 were very well specced, full leather, sunroofs on 2 of them, nice contrasting interior trims and were all lovely places to sit. All cars in good nick too and the 2 petrols had low mileage. They were a step up from the e39 to sit in and felt very plush. All good so far then and there is 1 in particular I really like with a long NCT and low mileage. I will get a mechanic friend to check it out of course. Now, the disappointment and I cant really put my finger on it except to say they dont have the feel of the e39. My first disappointment was the feel of the heating controls they just felt lighter and a little bit cheaper than the e39s. Overall build quality did feel good though so its not a major concern. All 3 also had much lighter steering than the e39, I feel it is the heavy weighty steering of the e39 was what made it renowned as the choice for a drivers car in the class for so long. This just didnt have the same connection between me, the car and the road. So, here I am, 8 years driving e39s and looking to change for the second time and not really knowing where to go. I do think I will move to the e60, probably a 2.5 petrol again, but I am feeling a little underwhelmed by them. Has anyone been ion the same position moving from an e39 to e60 before? Will the e60 grow on me? It was really only when I drove my own afterwards I felt like I wanted to stay where I am, I did like the e60s but just not as much as my own. But I do want to move on in the next little while. I loved the e60 interior as a place to be and yes, it is a good car. Is it just me or would this be a common observation that the e39 is possibly, a better car overall? I cant drive e39 forever, and I cant buy a newer one. Its just gone a bit dated I believe I want the latest gadgets, the i drive, dashboard display etc.

Advice please, sorry for the long post it sounds like something out of personal issues!!

corglass

For everyone's benefit, try using paragraphs in future

bmwguy

corglass wrote: »

For everyone's benefit, try using paragraphs in future

Reported, now go away please

Idbatterim

I have read before of people preferring the e39 to e60... I have never driven e60 but the e39 is class...

bmwguy

It will kill me to let someone have it for the type of money they are going for I was trying to get my brother to take it to keep it in the family but he is not interested he is not really into cars and his mileage is very high. Although the e60s I am looking at are not big money either especially in petrol so cost to change not huge

Gumbo

bmwguy wrote: »

Reported, now go away please

In fairness, I couldn't read it either on the phone. It's just a big mess of text.

Anyway, based on the title, yes, E60 is not the car the E39 was. It's more boaty, less edgy but it's also more refined and has a better cabin.

I think the E39 is a better drivers car but I'd still take an E60 for creature comforts.

commited

e39s are absolutely superb cars, I think you'd need to jump to an f10 as I think it's the spiritual successor, I could never really get on with the e60 myself.

What's the main reason for wanting to sell the e39?

MarkN

commited wrote: »

e39s are absolutely superb cars, I think you'd need to jump to an f10 as I think it's the spiritual successor, I could never really get on with the e60 myself.

What's the main reason for wanting to sell the e39?

I went from an F10 to an E60 due to a house purchase and a year later I got rid of the E60, it just kept reminding me how much I missed the F10. There's definitely 2010 F10 SE models going for high teens now but I don't know what your budget is.

landmarkjohn

What about a step up to a 730i? Not like you're not used to paying a bit for tax... recommend you test drive one before passing judgment. I think the E60 is ageing badly.... you should never have to convince yourself about a car, it should be shouting at you, buy me, buy me :-)

Gumbo

MarkN wrote: »

I went from an F10 to an E60 due to a house purchase and a year later I got rid of the E60, it just kept reminding me how much I missed the F10. There's definitely 2010 F10 SE models going for high teens now but I don't know what your budget is.

+1

The F10 is a different car to the E60!
I had 3 E60's after my E39 and then got out of my remapped LCI 535d into an F10 and I was pleas fly surprised with the cars characteristics compared to the E60. Down on power alright but the sports auto 8 speed box disguises it very well!

bmwguy

commited wrote: »

e39s are absolutely superb cars, I think you'd need to jump to an f10 as I think it's the spiritual successor, I could never really get on with the e60 myself.

What's the main reason for wanting to sell the e39?

Main (and only) reason is just the age of it. No dash display and no leather seats. I am 35 now in a senior management job and I drive a car I paid 2.5k for 4 years ago. Probably ba bit of keeping up with the Jones at play, but I love the car. Not a good reason I know. I first bought an e39 8 years ago but I have never driven a better car. Friends are paying 30k for Hyundai i40 and the likes I got a spin in them but they did nothing for me.

bmwguy

MarkN wrote: »

I went from an F10 to an E60 due to a house purchase and a year later I got rid of the E60, it just kept reminding me how much I missed the F10. There's definitely 2010 F10 SE models going for high teens now but I don't know what your budget is.

Budget is very negotiable. I am not stretching myself for the purchase of the cars I drove they were 06/07 cars in around 5-6k I am a big fan of getting the most car for my money let someone else take all the depreciation. An e60 would be bought for cash but high teens f10 I would be financing. I don't think I would go for the cheapest example anyway it will have to be a sport model. Unless traveling to the UK I am definitely tying myself to the 520d with the f10 (not necessarily a bad thing) because I don't see any petrols for sale.

bmwguy

landmarkjohn wrote: »

What about a step up to a 730i? Not like you're not used to paying a bit for tax... recommend you test drive one before passing judgment. I think the E60 is ageing badly.... you should never have to convince yourself about a car, it should be shouting at you, buy me, buy me :-)

I am 35 I definitely see a 7 series in my future but not just yet. But there is a 730d for sale in the garage I drove the 520d so I might have a look, 30 seconds across the road from work from me

landmarkjohn

bmwguy wrote: »

I am 35 I definitely see a 7 series in my future but not just yet. But there is a 730d for sale in the garage I drove the 520d so I might have a look, 30 seconds across the road from work from me

OK, I assume it will be an E65....you have to drive it, lets face it I don't think people buy E65 on looks.... and if it has comfort seats and a sports steering wheel then you have another debate on your hands.

The 4 spoke bus type steering wheel is quite off putting in these cars, but if you get the right one with lower milage I think they are good cars... think about it like a bigger and better E39 with the gadgets... have I sold it to you?

MarcusP12

kceire wrote: »

In fairness, I couldn't read it either on the phone. It's just a big mess of text.

Anyway, based on the title, yes, E60 is not the car the E39 was. It's more boaty, less edgy but it's also more refined and has a better cabin.

I think the E39 is a better drivers car but I'd still take an E60 for creature comforts.

Never driven an E39 but currently have the E60 (08 523i se) and would concur with the boat description. Last 2 cars were 06 318i M Sport and 01 320ci and compared to those the E60 is like a road going yacht! its very comfortable and no where near as engaging to driver as either of previous 3 series cars (probably like comparing apples and oranges anyway!)....I do like my E60, especially as its the last of a dying petrol breed, but will probably move it on soon for an F10 M-sport....

bmwguy

landmarkjohn wrote: »

OK, I assume it will be an E65....you have to drive it, lets face it I don't think people buy E65 on looks.... and if it has comfort seats and a sports steering wheel then you have another debate on your hands.

The 4 spoke bus type steering wheel is quite off putting in these cars, but if you get the right one with lower milage I think they are good cars... think about it like a bigger and better E39 with the gadgets... have I sold it to you?

You must be selling one are you?? No, I don't think so but I will take your advice and check it out before driving one but think it will be a 5 next. Neighbour has a beautiful 520d 142 reg I will take it for a spin to see how it compares to the e60 he is selling it to part finance the purchase of the house he lives in from his landlord. I am not buying his one it is way above what I want to pay but I would consider a 2011 model if I like it assuming I can get the finance, which should be OK. I will put my own car plus about 8 grand of my own cash in so it should be OK. Originally I did want to only spend about 6 grand on an 06/07 e60 but I am flexible.

bmwguy

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Never driven an E39 but currently have the E60 (08 523i se) and would concur with the boat description. Last 2 cars were 06 318i M Sport and 01 320ci and compared to those the E60 is like a road going yacht! its very comfortable and no where near as engaging to driver as either of previous 3 series cars (probably like comparing apples and oranges anyway!)....I do like my E60, especially as its the last of a dying petrol breed, but will probably move it on soon for an F10 M-sport....

Yeah see I think the e39 is more engaging than the 2 e46 cars I had (both 318i SE, so its a 6 cylinder almost 200bhp car v a 4 cylinder 120 bhp, but I still think it would be as good to drive as a 325i which is a more valid comparison) so thats where the e60 let me down.

I didnt think it was a bad car, quite the opposite but I was expecting everything to be an improvement and the drive just wasn't. The interior was very upmarket though I liked being in the car and I suppose thats important. As well as a spin in a 520d f10 from a neighbour I have arranged a loan of an e60 for a couple of days to see what its like over a longer term because my test drives were short in fairness.

MarcusP12

one thing which swayed me towards the se as opposed to m sport for the E60 apart from cost was the comfort at the time....I did a lot of long distance driving at the time with work and was expecting a child and figured that comfort over handling should be more important....not sure if that's a factor for you but if so, worth considering....for the F10, i'll be looking out for any m-sports with variable dampers (rare I think) so can have the best of both worlds!! buddy has an F10 sportwagon with all the bells and whistles including VDs....beast of a yoke...

millington

E39 is a better handling, better built and more reliable car.

E60 is more comfortable and more toys but can be very temperamental.

Unfortunately, there isn't many more modern cars that feel like an E39 so you might just have to sacrifice the feel to go up the years if thats what you want!

landmarkjohn

bmwguy wrote: »

You must be selling one are you?? Originally I did want to only spend about 6 grand on an 06/07 e60 but I am flexible.

Not selling mine but I sympathise with your predicament, I will have similar issue in about 4 years time all things being equal. You've had the 530i which you loved... you're not happy with E60, an 07 730i is a car which I seriously think will deliver for you.... and command the respect a Senior Manager deserves

It's about finding the right one and there isn't a lot of choice if any... I will have to stop banging on about 7er when 5er is really the discussion but don't miss an opportunity... I can almost guarantee you won't regret it if you get the right car.

bmwguy

Kind of gone off the idea of changing now - definitely going to extend my timeframe anyway, I was going to do this almost immediately.

How much do you guys reckon mine is worth on a private sale, its a silver 2004 525i sport with 114,000 miles. The very last of them, possibly the newest in the country but I am not sure. I havent seen any other 04s anyway but there are probably a few around, none for sale on donedeal though. Bodywork and interior excellent condition for the age but the steering wheel has some wear on it. Automatic transmission with the Alacanthra/Suede interior. NCT'd until February 17 and even has tax until end of August.

Asking prices seem to be topping out at 3k for 2003 models (530i and 530d) but mine is a year younger and its a 525i which seems to be pretty popular around here anyway as the best balance between power and tax, not much more than a 520i and over 400 less than the 530s.

Is mine worth any more than that or am I looking at somewhere in around €2000-2500?? Reluctant enough to let it go at that even though thats what the market says its worth its worth more to me

AhHaor

With tax till Aug I think asking 4 and accepting 3.5 is probably as good you'll get. Problem is with these they're far more valuable to the owner than the price you'll get for them. The > 10 year old market is now seen as a no go area, "expensive tax", NCT every year, and now risk of not getting insurance if you're going to a new company.

bmwguy

AhHaor wrote: »

With tax till Aug I think asking 4 and accepting 3.5 is probably as good you'll get. Problem is with these they're far more valuable to the owner than the price you'll get for them. The > 10 year old market is now seen as a no go area, "expensive tax", NCT every year, and now risk of not getting insurance if you're going to a new company.

I didn't think I would be in that ballpark at all, accepting 2.5 was what I was expecting as i don't think people will differentiate between an 03 and 04 they are so old now. The tax is worth about 500 alone though. I bought it 3 years ago for 2.5k with 90k miles on it I have only put 24k on it myself in 3 years but we were balls deep in a recession then I couldnt believe the value they have come back a bit though you can see that from the luxobarge thread

millington

I'd say 2-2500 is definitely on the ball! Have seen a few 04s, not many but as you say, it's an old car either way now!

Notch000

i honestly cant read the first post !!

Idbatterim

you can easily put in a leather interior into your E39 if you want to...

bmwguy

Idbatterim wrote: »

you can easily put in a leather interior into your E39 if you want to...

Yeah and one of those android car tablets in the dash. Would be a modern machine then. Would have to make sure I did it properly and professionally though get the fit and trim just right.

Idbatterim

well you can get this fitted...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E39-WIDESCREEN-SAT-NAV-TV-MONITOR-/191817689577?hash=item2ca939a9e9:g:HY4AAOSwP~tW1u8c

bmwguy

I went to a bmw auction in Wilson's tonight just to gauge prices of a few different cars. I was never going to buy tonight or even at any auction but there was a 730d there, a black m sport model. My god what a car. It was a 2011. It went for 24800 in the end. Auctioneer said it was 142k new but I don't know how true that is or not. But I could definitely see myself in one of them soon in the future. Let it drop for another year and I will save a few more quid towards it. Absolute beast of a machine.

commited

bmwguy wrote: »

I went to a bmw auction in Wilson's tonight just to gauge prices of a few different cars. I was never going to buy tonight or even at any auction but there was a 730d there, a black m sport model. My god what a car. It was a 2011. It went for 24800 in the end. Auctioneer said it was 142k new but I don't know how true that is or not. But I could definitely see myself in one of them soon in the future. Let it drop for another year and I will save a few more quid towards it. Absolute beast of a machine.

Any other highlights?

Ferris

What about a nice e90 or e91. I had an e61 on SE suspension and while it was a good car it was a bit of a boat. I have an e91 msport now and its a much better car to drive, the steering is nice and weighty and you sit lower in the car (e60's are actually really tall cars). My brother had an e39, thing is there isn't much in interior space between the e39 and e90. Interior spec really needs to be decent on them however.

bmwguy

commited wrote: »

Any other highlights?

Not really. An 2010 f10 520d went for 12 grand and an e60 523i from 2005 fetched only 3 grand. They were the surprisingly cheap ones. The rest seemed to be 2008-2010 316d, 318d which don't really do anything for me. They were bmw dealerships moving on the trade ins they took. There were golfs, minis, insignias and a Volvo s80 which went for peanuts too.

bmwguy

Ferris wrote: »

What about a nice e90 or e91. I had an e61 on SE suspension and while it was a good car it was a bit of a boat. I have an e91 msport now and its a much better car to drive, the steering is nice and weighty and you sit lower in the car (e60's are actually really tall cars). My brother had an e39, thing is there isn't much in interior space between the e39 and e90. Interior spec really needs to be decent on them however.

Yeah it might be an option but I agree spec needs to be top notch on them. Drove one once it belonged to a friend who broke her leg and had to go somewhere so I drove her it's actually the car that made me realise how I missed my bmw and I went out and bought an e39 again soon after.

millington

bmwguy wrote: »

Not really. An 2010 f10 520d went for 12 grand and an e60 523i from 2005 fetched only 3 grand. They were the surprisingly cheap ones. The rest seemed to be 2008-2010 316d, 318d which don't really do anything for me. They were bmw dealerships moving on the trade ins they took. There were golfs, minis, insignias and a Volvo s80 which went for peanuts too.

That was a cheap F10! SE I assume?

bmwguy

millington wrote: »

That was a cheap F10! SE I assume?

Yeah it was SE model.

Here is a list of what went on the night from notes I jotted down. Might be of interest to someone. Cars all looked perfectly good but I know buying at auction is a little bit different and you cant test them properly.

2006 318d 113k miles €3400
2007 Golf TDI 97k miles €4900
2007 316i 105k miles €4700
2008 318i sport 65k miles €7500
2009 A4 TDI 150K miles €8000
2006 630i 45k miles €7600
2010 520d 160k miles €12100
2009 Superb 120k miles €6900
2008 Qashqai 90k miles €5600
2010 Insignia 125k miles €6700
2011 Mini Cooper 100k miles €9200
2008 C200 125k miles €7750
2008 S80 2.0D 80K miles €5100
2008 318d 125k miles €6600
2008 520d SE 120k miles 7250
2011 730d Sport 115k miles €24800
2007 530d Sport 112k miles €6400
2005 523i SE 115k miles €300
2013 520d SE 50k miles €24000

lawred2

bmwguy wrote: »

Reported, now go away please

Found it unreadable myself.

Maybe try taking his advice rather than jumping on the defensive.

bmwguy

lawred2 wrote: »

Found it unreadable myself.

Maybe try taking his advice rather than jumping on the defensive.

Good contribution. Old news.

Idbatterim

2006 630i 45k miles €7600 - that would have been of interest to me, thanks for putting up the price, interesting to know!

2005 523i SE 115k miles €300. Surely you mean 3000?

Kintarō Hattori

Idbatterim wrote: »

2006 630i 45k miles €7600 - that would have been of interest to me, thanks for putting up the price, interesting to know!

2005 523i SE 115k miles €300. Surely you mean 3000?

He did say €3000 in another post so just a typo I'm sure.

bmwguy

Idbatterim wrote: »

2006 630i 45k miles €7600 - that would have been of interest to me, thanks for putting up the price, interesting to know!

2005 523i SE 115k miles €300. Surely you mean 3000?

Typo, sorry yeah it was 3000.

There were many others too but I didnt record all sales prices.
Do your homework if you go anywhere near an auction though it is very fast paced

Yeah 7600 for a 630i is a great price even though I am not mad about them its about the same price as a 318d

Idbatterim

Yeah 7600 for a 630i is a great price even though I am not mad about them its about the same price as a 318d

yeah its a lot of car for the money, but its what I would expect to pay at auction or private sale. Dealers looking for too much for them IMO...

bmwguy

Just to update this I have had a loan of a 520d from a friend since Friday I have to give it back this evening. Living with the car for 2 days has changed my mind on it. I like it and I think I am going to go for it. Now it's probably a 523i or 525i that I will go for but if the 20d is impressing me I will also like the higher powered petrols. But the budget is negotiable so I am going to look at an 08 530d this week if I can find one (not going to go pre-08 on a 30d with 1494 tax as I think I will never move it on when the time comes). But I think it will be a 2.5 petrol which are great value these days

Foxhole Norman

Get an auto if going the diesel 520 route! Manual is ****e with it! I'd also probably go auto on a 523/525.

bmwguy

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

Get an auto if going the diesel 520 route! Manual is ****e with it! I'd also probably go auto on a 523/525.

Yeah it will be an auto

Big Nasty

I've had E30's, an E36, an E38 and two E39's and now an E60, well actually an E61. While everyone admired the E61 more than any other Bimmer I've had initially I didn't really feel the love or have that wow factor I got with previous models. It's a very fine car but I just feel it lacks something. It's more about your attachment to it than it's quality. It's an exceptionally good car to be fair and the more time I spend in it the more I like it. It's better equipped than any of my previous cars yet I still feel it lacking.

I'm rambling here I guess but as much as I like the E60/1 it just lacks the personality of previous models even though on paper it's a better car in every way.

166man

Had an E39 myself in 2014 for about 6-8 months and it was a nice car. Mine was a 525i MSport 5 speed manual. My personal opinion as follows;

- it wore the miles very well. Paintwork was exceptionally good as was the quality of the interior

- engine was smooth and surprisingly efficient. Manual gearbox was quite nice too.

However, I don't but the idea that the E39 is a drivers car, it was very boat like, considerable roll in the corners. The engine was smooth but you had to really Rev it to get anywhere. Brakes were a joke as well.

I know people will jump to conclusions here but I sold it and bought a V6 Alfa 166 and that car was far superior to drive, even being FWD!

It had nicer steering, less body roll, sharper turn into bends and a better engine and braking set up (305 brembo on the front).

The E39 as I said is a good car, but I don't think it's the best drivers car in that class.

millington

166man wrote: »

Had an E39 myself in 2014 for about 6-8 months and it was a nice car. Mine was a 525i MSport 5 speed manual. My personal opinion as follows;

- it wore the miles very well. Paintwork was exceptionally good as was the quality of the interior

- engine was smooth and surprisingly efficient. Manual gearbox was quite nice too.

However, I don't but the idea that the E39 is a drivers car, it was very boat like, considerable roll in the corners. The engine was smooth but you had to really Rev it to get anywhere. Brakes were a joke as well.

I know people will jump to conclusions here but I sold it and bought a V6 Alfa 166 and that car was far superior to drive, even being FWD!

It had nicer steering, less body roll, sharper turn into bends and a better engine and braking set up (305 brembo on the front).

The E39 as I said is a good car, but I don't think it's the best drivers car in that class.

Drive an A6 and an E Class of the same age and see how they feel! Never driven a 166 to compare but the rest are light years behind.