Do You think that any Conspiracy Theories hold water?

DEFTLEFTHAND

There are two which I think are plausibile. The obvious one is the JFK assassination. The Zapruder film shows shots coming in from different angles, not consistent with the theory of the lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald.

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

Yep. The term "conspiracy theorist" is a pity because if you doubt one thing, you're in with the loonies.

Buona Fortuna

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

I had a hairdresser go on about that one. Felt I was trapped. If I said anything I'd end up with a basin cut. Seemed like the longest haircut in the world.

I don't like unhinged people operating sharp objects near my ears.

"Will I shave your neck."
Fock no - "No its grand so."

She didn't get a tip anyway

MarkAnthony

Loch Ness holds water.

Mint Aero

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

I had scrambled jets for breakfast

kneemos

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There are two which I think are plausibile. The obvious one is the JFK assassination. The Zapruder film shows shots coming in from different angles, not consistent with the theory of the lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald.

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

Thought the JFK one was pretty much proven to be Lee Harvey?
Somebody would have seen the explosion if they blew up the plane,plus debris for miles.

Menas

Speaking of JFK....I still cant belive that no one apart from me has made the link between him and Elvis.
It is well known that JFK was a bit mean to Marilyn Monroe - used and abused her.
Flash of light on the grassy knoll? That was Elvis's gold medalion. Elvis shot JFK in revenge for that JFK had done to Marilyn.
Evenually (1977) some one figured it out and Elvis faked his own death and is now living in a thatched cottage in Leitrim. I have seen him myself in a bar in Manorhamilton.

Stonedpilot

Conspiracy theory is a term used to label and dismiss anyone who doesn't believe our ever so honest government's. I don't believe half the official stories we are told I mean the media and Governments off the world have no obligation at all to tell us the truth, why would they?!?

So frankly I make up my own mind on What I think, not some spoon fed drivel from a bent government of lazy journalists printing said drivel from government's

kneemos

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Conspiracy theory is a term used to label and dismiss anyone who doesn't believe our ever so honest government's. I don't believe half the official stories we are told I mean the media and Governments off the world have no obligation at all to tell us the truth, why would they?!?

So frankly I make up my own mind on What I think, not some spoon fed drivel from a bent government of lazy journalists printing said drivel from government's

Yes Stonedpilot.You tell em.

HamsterFace

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Conspiracy theory is a term used to label and dismiss anyone who doesn't believe our ever so honest government's. I don't believe half the official stories we are told I mean the media and Governments off the world have no obligation at all to tell us the truth, why would they?!?

So frankly I make up my own mind on What I think, not some spoon fed drivel from a bent government of lazy journalists printing said drivel from government's

The thing is, governments and media are made up of normal people, the people you see around you. People aren't good at keeping secrets. Indeed, keeping secrets would usually be harder than the acts that are in question.

Buona Fortuna

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

This one again. I hope that they did shoot it down. At the time I was amazed that the strongest, best armed, country in the world didn't shoot it down - especially after the first one hit.

So what if they did shoot it down and then said - Look lads, we've got a PR disaster here, al-Quaeda is scoring all the points, so lets create some heroes.

If that's what happened it wouldn't be the first time.

Samaris

In general, I don't tend to believe most of the conspiracy theories. I can't actually think of one of the top of my head that I -do- believe, although I won't rule out that there might be some that seem to have more consistent answers than the official version.

Zaph

Menas wrote: »

Speaking of JFK....I still cant belive that no one apart from me has made the link between him and Elvis.
It is well known that JFK was a bit mean to Marilyn Monroe - used and abused her.
Flash of light on the grassy knoll? That was Elvis's gold medalion. Elvis shot JFK in revenge for that JFK had done to Marilyn.
Evenually (1977) some one figured it out and Elvis faked his own death and is now living in a thatched cottage in Leitrim. I have seen him myself in a bar in Manorhamilton.

You were doing so well up to the end. Everyone knows that Leitrim doesn't exist.

NIMAN

99% of them are absolute nonsense.

TerrorFirmer

There are some good ones but the Conspiracy Theories forum here on board is a must-visit for those days you need a good chuckle.

razorblunt

I don't believe the Pentagon incident on 9/11 was a plane, more likely a bomb.
I don't believe in the inside job theory but that never really added up for me.

KingMonkey

we landed on the moon! hey everybody we landed on the moon!! :pac:

Ice Maiden

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Conspiracy theory is a term used to label and dismiss anyone who doesn't believe our ever so honest government's. I don't believe half the official stories we are told I mean the media and Governments off the world have no obligation at all to tell us the truth, why would they?!?

So frankly I make up my own mind on What I think, not some spoon fed drivel from a bent government of lazy journalists printing said drivel from government's

Doesn't mean you're right though, or that the official version is spoonfed drivel.

I don't mind people feeling convinced by a plausible theory, but insisting it's the truth despite no hard evidence, and calling people who don't agree it's definitely the truth sheeple and demanding they wake up etc... credibility gone in my eyes.

Samaris

Ice Maiden wrote: »

Doesn't mean you're right though, or that the official version is spoonfed drivel.

I don't mind people feeling convinced by a plausible theory, but insisting it's the truth despite no hard evidence, and calling people who don't agree it's definitely the truth sheeple and demanding they wake up etc... credibility gone in my eyes.

There are definitely those that rail against the spoonfed drivel from "teh government" while being quite happy to accept the spoonfed drivel from a website that is the online version of what the man in the pub told me.

Skylinehead

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

What does the US gain from covering that up though? If a plane had shot it down, they might as well say that.

Flint Fredstone

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Conspiracy theory is a term used to label and dismiss anyone who doesn't believe our ever so honest government's. I don't believe half the official stories we are told I mean the media and Governments off the world have no obligation at all to tell us the truth, why would they?!?

So frankly I make up my own mind on What I think, not some spoon fed drivel from a bent government of lazy journalists printing said drivel from government's

You can believe in so called conspiracy theories without being a conspiracy nut.

The problem lies with the people that latch on to every big news story and look for something that goes against what the rest of the world believes to have happened.

Man goes mad in cinema and shoots a load of people - The guy must have had some serious mental issues?
No, no, no. The government planted some mind control trigger in the credits of the movie, they had been tracking him for months, planting seeds in his brain.
OK, see ya.

Buona Fortuna

Skylinehead wrote: »

What does the US gain from covering that up though? If a plane had shot it down, they might as well say that.

I think it looks worse on them that the biggest, best, most technologically advanced Air Force, with best comms, radar and intelligence in world - didn't shoot anything down.

Makes you wonder why have an air force if that's the case.

Zaph

razorblunt wrote: »

I don't believe the Pentagon incident on 9/11 was a plane, more likely a bomb.

I must tell my American friend whose brother was working in the Pentagon that day that his brother has been lying to him all these years so. How can any sane person actually state something as ludicrous as this?

Wabbit Ears

KingMonkey wrote: »

we landed on the moon! hey everybody we landed on the moon!! :pac:

This. How on earth can anyone believe we landed on the moon with the technology of the time?

ScumLord

The problem with most conspiracy theories is they start out as someone saying they don't believe the official narrative, then they come up with a theory on the spot, and collect "evidence" which they then construct into a narrative that suits their beliefs.

If you go down the 911 rabbit hole you'll end up looking at pictures of Obama standing in front of a curtain where the angle make the curtain look like horns behind Obama's head, which is then used as proof he's the devil and part of a world conspiracy.

I've found that most these theories are coming from fundamentalist crazy American christian groups, trying to twist current events into a narrative of the end times.

They ruin their own theories by just going to far with their assumptions. They use shaky science to prove their points and refuse to accept any science that goes against what they're saying. So it's really just a fantasy.

harry Bailey esq

I don't think that they hold water,sure if they did,we'd all have received bills for said water.

NIMAN

Some conspiracies are sensible, others are just plain stupid.

Examples:

1) Big Pharma's interests aren't in curing people but in making money. Elements of this are probably true and kept fuelled by such things as medical personnel getting bought cars and holidays to use a certain firms drugs.
2) The Earth is flat. Easily disproven yet some people still believe it. These people should really be committed.

Ice Maiden

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

This. How on earth can anyone believe we landed on the moon with the technology of the time?

That was the one ct I believed, but someone who has an open mind about alternative theories was able to convince me otherwise.

Samaris

I think it's a lot more likely that Americans landed on the moon than that they managed to keep a story on a scale like that going for fifty+ years.

cajonlardo

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

I had a hairdresser go on about that one. Felt I was trapped. If I said anything I'd end up with a basin cut. Seemed like the longest haircut in the world.

I don't like unhinged people operating sharp objects near my ears.

"Will I shave your neck."
Fock no - "No its grand so."

She didn't get a tip anyway

There was a Barber down Quays in Dublin we used to call Mad Mick.
We only went to him because he hadn't increased his prices since the '60's - used to charge us 50p in the early 80's when a decent barber was charging a fiver. Problem was that he was actually certifiably insane. Mid hair cut he'd start talking to "the blessed Virgin" whom he believed he could see standing beside you.Not praying to her - an actual conversation. Oh, and the other thing I just remembered was homeless people walking in, stripping off and washing their arm pits in the sinks in his shop.
Stopped going in when he stuck the point of a scissors blade into the nape of a lads neck and the lad ran out screaming with blood spurting out of his neck.

diomed

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

This. How on earth can anyone believe we landed on the moon with the technology of the time?

Yeah. They didn't even have rockets. C'mon.

Dohnjoe

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Conspiracy theory is a term used to label and dismiss anyone who doesn't believe our ever so honest government's. I don't believe half the official stories we are told I mean the media and Governments off the world have no obligation at all to tell us the truth, why would they?!?

So frankly I make up my own mind on What I think, not some spoon fed drivel from a bent government of lazy journalists printing said drivel from government's

Here goes a long one..

I've spent a lot of time on various conspiracy forums and sites, far too much. One of the major observations is that more often that not I've noticed that "conspiracy theorists" tend to spend most of their time and effort discrediting established versions of events.. yet don't seem to have much interest in establishing what they think really happened, i.e. claiming they are "seeking the truth" but instead seem to be partaking in a group effort to do anything but

You have to ask what is a conspiracy theorist? it's a very generalised term.

For a start "conspiracy theorists" often get a lot of their information from conspiracy sites, dubious sources which present a themed take on events, are low on substantiated info and high on opinion, reports are more like editorials. Editorials that typically fit the narrative of the site itself - the <insert bad entity> is responsible for X event. Where bad entity is the US government/Jews/Illuminati/NATO/Russians/NASA/etc

Almost all are identical in methodology; they sell fear to a paranoid audience and make money from it

Many conspiracy theorists often claim to "just be asking questions", yet they rarely question each other and even rarer question a conspiracy theory which contradicts their own. A false skeptic.

They will scrutinise the hell out of an official story to the Nth degree, but will accept a bizarre theory with almost no evidence simply because it validates a personal belief they hold

On the one hand they will require absolute proof for a particular event, yet require almost no proof for a vague theory

Quite a few will believe in more than one theory.. yet think nothing of the fact that one of their theories might completely contradict another

We all know conspiracies happen all the time, e.g. FIFA, political scandals.. yet often they won't show much interest in these, and only use them as indirect "proof" that since a conspiracy happened somewhere in the world, it must support their own personal conspiracy theory

Many will claim to be critical thinkers - yet will fall into the most classic traps. For example, one witness saw a missile hit the Pentagon, for these believers, that is proof. Yet 100 witnesses who saw a plane, well that's miraculously discounted, "they were paid off"

The irony of all this is that when academia and world press reports contradict these views.. conspiracy theorists will respond by inferring that world academia/press is in on the conspiracy

Freelance reporters, veteran journalists, industry experts, scientists, centuries of accumulated information.. all swept aside because one doctor somewhere said vaccines cause autism and spawned a generation of believers

The more intelligent conspiracy theorists often don't entertain the theories they can't support - instead they stick to endlessly questioning events, focusing intensely on tiny details, holes, discrepancies.. often without ever explaining the significance or context of these issues.. simply just adding them to a bucket of "errors" pointing toward some conspiracy they hint at but never furnish

The phrase "but I have an open mind" often seems to be very open to conspiracies, but closed to reality. That's not an open mind.

TL;DR There are events that are contentious, events that are complex, there are dubious political situations, etc.. but what gives away a conspiracy theorist is their methodology. It's not based on reason/logic.. it's based on a pre-formed belief.

They often have the answer first (the government/NASA/Jews did it) and work backwards from there, retroactively gathering anything that might validate that belief without the slightest regard for mount Everest of evidence that is pointing to the truth. A truth they don't seem the vaguest bit interested in.

The_Valeyard

Project Ultra. Well that incident could have had the tin pot crazies thinking their government was up to no good.

esforum

Well, some theories have been proven correct so the odd one here and there probable is accurate but off hand I cant think of any I agree with at the moment.

Dont believe any based in Ireland, people give the government, army and Gardai for more credit for being devious and united than they are.

mickdw

Zaph wrote: »

I must tell my American friend whose brother was working in the Pentagon that day that his brother has been lying to him all these years so. How can any sane person actually state something as ludicrous as this?

No footage of plane approaching the most secure building in the world?
If it had crashed into my local garda station for example, there would be at least 3 camera angles of it happening.
Now I also believe that prior to the incident, all staff had been moved from that portion of building luckily resulting in little loss of life.
So did your friends brother actually see a jet crash into the building or did he just hear a bang and see the damage like the rest of us? I certainly didn't see any trace of an airliner there.

SuperTortoise

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

This. How on earth can anyone believe we landed on the moon with the technology of the time?

Because there are literally dozens of ways we can prove that we did!
I have'nt heard of a single argument that does'nt have a perfectly reasonable explanation.

There may well be a bit of truth to some theories just not that one.

Flint Fredstone

Anyone that utters the phrase "wake up sheeple" should be brought to the nearest hospital and euthanised.

stoplooklisten

esforum wrote: »

Well, some theories have been proven correct so the odd one here and there probable is accurate but off hand I cant think of any I agree with at the moment.

Dont believe any based in Ireland, people give the government, army and Gardai for more credit for being devious and united than they are.

What about the one with the politician and the priest and the murder and the wall of silence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Niall_Molloy

DEFTLEFTHAND

Skylinehead wrote: »

What does the US gain from covering that up though? If a plane had shot it down, they might as well say that.

PR reasons, Looks bad to be killing their own citizens, even though such a decision would have been justified.

Instead they can turn it around and concoct a nice story about passengers storming the cockpit.

DEFTLEFTHAND

NIMAN wrote: »

Some conspiracies are sensible, others are just plain stupid.

Examples:

1) Big Pharma's interests aren't in curing people but in making money. Elements of this are probably true and kept fuelled by such things as medical personnel getting bought cars and holidays to use a certain firms drugs.
2) The Earth is flat. Easily disproven yet some people still believe it. These people should really be committed.

For the life of me I cannot understand this one. I imagine such views are held by people who suffer with some form of mental disorder.

ClovenHoof

The WMDs justified to start the Gulf War 2 is a clear cut conspiracy by the USA and UK to invade Iraq. They lied and lied and lied and over a million people were killed.

It comes down to this. The vast majority of conspiracy theories are almost groundless.

However, anyone who says there are no government and corporate conspiracies which are driven by pathological intentions are bigger loons and morons than the people they laugh at and call 'conspiracy theories'

Conspiracies at the top do happen. However they are very rare.

ClovenHoof

The problem with boards is that most people on here are civil servants rotting away in some government department making their mammys back in Mayo proud of their 'good pension' these people will never see anything wicked in power structures as they are paid to turn a blind eye to all injustice and mock those who point it out.

Ice Maiden

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The problem with boards is that most people on here are civil servants

On what do you base this? Have you insight into the jobs which members on Boards do?

Lights On

Ice Maiden wrote: »

On what do you base this? Have you insight into the jobs which members on Boards do?

That's exactly what a civil servant would say

kneemos

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

PR reasons, Looks bad to be killing their own citizens, even though such a decision would have been justified.

Instead they can turn it around and concoct a nice story about passengers storming the cockpit.

Yeah,including the real time phone calls stating that they were storming the cockpit.

esforum

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The problem with boards is that most people on here are civil servants rotting away in some government department making their mammys back in Mayo proud of their 'good pension' these people will never see anything wicked in power structures as they are paid to turn a blind eye to all injustice and mock those who point it out.

Now theres a conspiracy theory!

stoplooklisten wrote: »

What about the one with the politician and the priest and the murder and the wall of silence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Niall_Molloy

I think he was murdered but the person that the Gardai charged was found innocent and even after a new Garda investigation the DPP directed no one be charged.

Its a mystery not a conspiracy theory

wokingvoter

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Anyone that utters the phrase "wake up sheeple" should be brought to the nearest hospital and euthanised.

If you've ever had the "pleasure " of sharing a workplace with one of these cretins you'll have an idea of what purgatory is like

stoplooklisten

esforum wrote: »

Now theres a conspiracy theory!



I think he was murdered but the person that the Gardai charged was found innocent and even after a new Garda investigation the DPP directed no one be charged.

Its a mystery not a conspiracy theory

Not a mystery, the judge was a friend of theirs and the judge himself, with no jury, declared him innocent. I didn't know "heart failure" would cause so much blood!

conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, plain and simple



also the "files" were stolen by the general

The Director of Public Prosecutions' case files on this death were among other files stolen by "The General", Martin Cahill. Details from the files were later published by Veronica Guerin in The Sunday Independent, revealing a possible conflict of interest by the presiding judge in the trial of Richard Flynn.[4][7]


why, what would the general want with these specific files?

ClovenHoof

esforum wrote: »

Now theres a conspiracy theory!



I think he was murdered but the person that the Gardai charged was found innocent and even after a new Garda investigation the DPP directed no one be charged.

Its a mystery not a conspiracy theory

No. It was a conspiracy. THEY DO HAPPEN.

recylingbin

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The other is the fate of flight 93 during 911. The theory is that the US Air Force shot the plane down over barren land in Pennsylvania. Considering the time between the attacks it's plausible to suggest that they had scrambled jets to intercept the last hijacked airliner. The final destination of the hijacked craft was apparently Capitol Hill or the White House.

Nonsense. There was a documentary about this that clearly showed the passengers living on an island and fighting smoke monsters, the dharma initiative and some lad from ancient Spain.

B.A._Baracus

While some theories are wild and out there, some will be true. Even if it's only a few of them.

There was once a conspiracy theory that the U.S. government were trying to create a 'gay bomb' back in the day. It would render people exposed to it.... Well gay and stop fighting. Presumably then having sex with one another :pac:

It sounds so insane to come up with such a thing.... But it's not a theory anymore. It's been established the U.S. Government were actually trying to develop it :pac: