Rush for Irish passports brought on by Brexit fears

Rattser

Last weekend, shortly before he sat down to watch Ireland play England in the rugby Six Nations championship, Kevin Warnes posted the application form to renew his Irish passport. Though Warnes was born and has always lived in England and considers himself “completely English”, his mother is originally from Ireland, which allowed him to obtain dual citizenship as a young man in the 1980s when he was doing a lot of travelling in Europe.

A teacher from Shipley in West Yorkshire, he had allowed his Irish passport to lapse. But the prospect of Britain potentially voting to leave the EU in June “propelled me into action”, he says.

“I have two children and I want them to retain their EU citizenship. I want them to be able to travel, live and work freely in a Europe of open borders, to explore their near world with as much liberty as possible.” As soon as he gets his own passport back, Warnes will apply for Irish citizenship for his teenage daughters as well. “I certainly wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for Brexit.”

Figures obtained by the Guardian suggest he is far from alone. According to Ireland’s Department of Foreign Affairs, the number of British-born people applying for Irish passports on the basis of their ancestry has risen sharply in the past year, just as the debate over the UK’s potential withdrawal from the EU has intensified before June’s referendum.

Ireland offers automatic citizenship to anyone with an Irish parent, regardless of where they were born, while the grandchildren of citizens are also entitled to claim a passport once their births have been recorded in the country’s foreign births register. Great-grandchildren may also be eligible if their parents had registered by the time of their birth. It has been estimated that as many as six million Britons can claim an Irish-born grandparent.

Northern Ireland is a special case, with anyone born north of the border having the same rights to claim Irish citizenship as elsewhere in the island. There, too, first-time adult applications for Irish passports rose by 14% from 10,672 to 12,159 between 2014 and 2015. Both Britain and Ireland allow citizens to hold dual citizenship.

http:// www .theguardian. com /world/2016/mar/04/rush-for-irish-passports-brought-on-by-brexit-fears?CMP=twt_gu

How do people feel about this? It leaves a bad taste that people are able to get Irish citizenship, purely because they want to hold onto an EU passport and not because they want to become part of Irish society. What's the point in giving someone citizenship, if not for that?

Ruu

I dislike the use of phrase 'Brexit'!!

retalivity

Are any of them any good at football?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RayM

Ruu wrote: »

I dislike the use of phrase 'Brexit'!!

I think it was Charlie Brooker who said that anyone who combines two words into one like that is a 'funt'.

Capt'n Midnight

I think this will lead to more "BRITS OUT!" graffiti in Belfast

KingBrian2

dir="ltr">

Ruu wrote: »

I dislike the use of phrase 'Brexit'!!

I second that.

Cool_CM

Rattser wrote: »

http:// www .theguardian. com /world/2016/mar/04/rush-for-irish-passports-brought-on-by-brexit-fears?CMP=twt_gu

How do people feel about this? It leaves a bad taste that people are able to get Irish citizenship, purely because they want to hold onto an EU passport and not because they want to become part of Irish society. What's the point in giving someone citizenship, if not for that?

Grand. I'm entitled to a UK passport if I want it and if the shoe was on the other foot and Ireland, for some reason, was possibly exiting the EU and the UK wasn't, I'd sign up for a UK passport in a heartbeat.

Sir Osis of Liver.

Are we about to see an influx of English folk turn up on our shores in rubber dinghys?

Rattser

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

They shouldn't be! Should have had to have lived here for a number of years to be given citizenship after the second generation.

SEPT 23 1989

Scare the sheep into submission

Rattser

Cool_CM wrote: »

Grand. I'm entitled to a UK passport if I want it and if the shoe was on the other foot and Ireland, for some reason, was possibly exiting the EU and the UK wasn't, I'd sign up for a UK passport in a heartbeat.

Six million British people are entitled to Irish citizenship through descent. The population of the entire island! If they leave the EU, huge numbers will apply for citizenship, without ever intending to live here, purely to hold onto an EU passport.

MacauDragon

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

Are we about to see an influx of English folk turn up on our shores in rubber dinghys?

Expats please.

Immigrants are brown and lower class.

Peregrine

Rattser wrote: »

Six million British people are entitled to Irish citizenship through descent. The population of the entire island! If they leave the EU, huge numbers will apply for citizenship, without ever intending to live here, purely to hold onto an EU passport.

Six million people, is it?

Citizenship costs:
Adult: €950
Child: €200 My mistake, see below.

Passport fees
Adult: €80 every ten years
Child: €27 every five years

Cha ching!

kneemos

Ruu wrote: »

I dislike the use of phrase 'Brexit'!!

Britex would be better.

recyclebin

Even if the UK leaves the EU there probably wont be much of a difference regarding travel.

Cool_CM

Rattser wrote: »

Six million British people are entitled to Irish citizenship through descent. The population of the entire island! If they leave the EU, huge numbers will apply for citizenship, without ever intending to live here, purely to hold onto an EU passport.

Yup. Sure, by our own rules as to who can apply for one, it's totally legal to do so. In fact in America, Irish Central regularly put up articles on how to get one:

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/how-to-get-an-irish-passport-130522453-237778381.html

Rattser

retalivity wrote: »

Are any of them any good at football?

Any Player who ... [assumes] a new nationality and who has not played international football [in a match ... in an official competition of any category or any type of football for one Association] shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfills one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

- FIFA.com

Our citizenship laws and FIFA's eligibility rules are two different things.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Rattser

Peregrine wrote: »

Six million people, is it?

Citizenship costs:
Adult: €950
Child: €200

Passport fees
Adult: €80 every ten years
Child: €27 every five years

Cha ching!

The charges you're quoting are for naturalisation. Not citizenship by descent.

It costs €127.

Do you think passports are free, those working in the embassy and processing the passports are working for nothing?

Cha ching, indeed.

Rattser

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yeah, and I'm saying that it's ridiculous for them to be given citizenship without ever having lived here.

corkonion

recyclebin wrote: »

Even if the UK leaves the EU there probably wont be much of a difference regarding travel.

They won't be entitled to work in Europe without a visa, social welfare, hospital care etc

Mech1

I blame Witherspoons

Rattser

corkonion wrote: »

They won't be entitled to work in Europe without a visa, social welfare, hospital care etc

If they use services abroad, we will get billed back under the Cross-Border Healthcare Directive (CBD) too. Or rather, the HSE will instead of the NHS.

Badly Drunk Boy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I think this will lead to more "BRITS OUT!" graffiti in Belfast

Boris Johnson To Hire ‘Brits Out’ Graffiti Artist Ahead Of EU Referendum

Peregrine

Rattser wrote: »

The charges you're quoting are for naturalisation. Not citizenship by descent.

It costs €127.

Do you think passports are free, those working in the embassy and processing the passports are working for nothing?

Cha ching, indeed.

If it's not through naturalisation then my mistake. I suppose they'd have to go on the foreign births register. But you'll have to quote the €127 figure because I can't find it. Retrospective foreign birth registrations for adults are more than twice that figure.

I never said there aren't costs but the fees more than cover the costs. It was a tongue-in-cheek post more than anything else.

Anyway, even if Britain does leave the EU, I don't believe that 6m British people will apply for Irish passports. I don't believe that Britain will close itself away. For example, Swiss citizens have close to zero restrictions while travelling around the European continent.

dd972

This'll be a boon for the 2nd Generation, after suffering for years at the hands of the Hibernia-than-thous, they'll have a rake of people to look down on and be dismissive of for being less Irish than they are

matchthis

Peregrine wrote: »

Six million people, is it?

Citizenship costs:
Adult: €950
Child: €200

Passport fees
Adult: €80 every ten years
Child: €27 every five years

Cha ching!

We're all gods children

Rattser

Cool_CM wrote: »

Yup. Sure, by our own rules as to who can apply for one, it's totally legal to do so. In fact in America, Irish Central regularly put up articles on how to get one:

http://www .irishcentral. com/news/how-to-get-an-irish-passport-130522453-237778381.html

It's time to change the rules so. That article and site is dirt btw.

I have both Irish and English citizenship, and have always used the Irish passport in preference.

There's no such things as English citizenship.

A practical use of an Irish passport is that you will be entitled to work and travel freely in any of the 27 countries in the European Union.

28 countries.

Getting a passport is really the easy part – it’s getting Irish citizenship that takes a little time.

You can't get a passport without having citizenship. Christ.

The author is a professor in journalism.

Junkyard Tom

Scotchland won't be happy.

Capt'n Midnight

corkonion wrote: »

They won't be entitled to work in Europe without a visa, social welfare, hospital care etc

There's about 2 million expats in Europe.

murpho999

Mech1 wrote: »

I blame Witherspoons

What's that? Do you mean Wetherspoons>

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Bit much of the brits to want the advantage of not being in the eu while still claiming what I would see as the main benefit of being in.

Birneybau

Mech1 wrote: »

I blame Witherspoons

Leave Reece out of this.

maryishere

There re a lot more people from outside the UK wanting to get UK passports than there are people from the UK wanting to get EC passports.

LeeLooLee

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Bit much of the brits to want the advantage of not being in the eu while still claiming what I would see as the main benefit of being in.

huh?

uck51js9zml2yt

My kids have dual citizenship with an eastern European country and have even made use of their far more efficient health service for free.

Sure they even paid us to have the kids.(much like we did a few years ago)

My point...I don't see the problem with Brits getting Irish passports

Rattser

maryishere wrote: »

There re a lot more people from outside the UK wanting to get UK passports than there are people from the UK wanting to get EC passports.

And that's a matter for the British. Who they give citizenship to is their business. But I wouldn't like to see large numbers of people getting Irish citizenship purely to have an EU passport. The point of obtaining citizenship is that you're part of a society. If they want to come and live here, then that's fair enough.

The Rape of Lucretia

Ruu wrote: »

I dislike the use of phrase 'Brexit'!!

'Great Riddance' ?

Maybe we are just better without them ?

LeeLooLee

Rattser wrote: »

And that's a matter for the British. Who they give citizenship to is their business. But I wouldn't like to see large numbers of people getting Irish citizenship purely to have an EU passport. The point of obtaining citizenship is that you're part of a society. If they want to come and live here, then that's fair enough.

There's no obligation for them to live in Ireland. They're entitled to an Irish passport, that's that. The Irish government decided that having Irish blood makes you more worthy of having an Irish passport than being born in Ireland to foreign parents. Anyone who has the right to an Irish passport should be free to get one and to live wherever they want.

And your argument is ridiculous. Would you really want 6 million Brits to turn up in Ireland and double the population? Putting strain on the health service, school places, etc.? You haven't thought this through.

ceadaoin.

corkonion wrote: »

They won't be entitled to work in Europe without a visa, social welfare, hospital care etc

Sounds a bit like scaremonging. Norwegians can live and work in Europe even though Norway isn't in the EU because they are part of the EEA. Would the UK not be similar if they left?

My child has an irish passport despite being born in England and only living in ireland for a year before we left again for the U.S.

As far as I'm concerned she is irish and is entitled to citizenship and the law agrees.

Rattser

LeeLooLee wrote: »

There's no obligation for them to live in Ireland. They're entitled to an Irish passport, that's that. The Irish government decided that having Irish blood makes you more worthy of having an Irish passport than being born in Ireland to foreign parents. Anyone who has the right to an Irish passport should be free to get one and to live wherever they want.

And your argument is ridiculous. Would you really want 6 million Brits to turn up in Ireland and double the population? Putting strain on the health service, school places, etc.? You haven't thought this through.

Six million Brits aren't going to show up here. If British people want to live here - they are welcome to and then obtain citizenship through naturalisation. Brexit or no Brexit. This has always been the case.

But none of them should be given citizenship for having an Irish grandparent and having never lived here. That's simply ridiculous. They are not Irish and perhaps the government should be looking to change the law.

Rattser

ceadaoin. wrote: »

My child has an irish passport despite being born in England and only living in ireland for a year before we left again for the U.S.

As far as I'm concerned she is irish and is entitled to citizenship and the law agrees.

A person born in the UK and who lives in the US is not Irish. Irish people are those born, raised or who spent a significant amount of time living here.

The law needs to change.

ceadaoin.

Rattser wrote: »

A person born in the UK and who lives in the US is not Irish. Irish people are those born, raised or who spent a significant amount of time living here.

The law needs to change.

She only lived in the UK for the first 6 months of her life so didn't spend a significant amount of time there. She obviously isn't american or entitled to citizenship here so what nationality do you suggest?

Rattser

ceadaoin. wrote: »

She only lived in the UK for the first 6 months of her life so didn't spend a significant amount of time there. She obviously isn't american or entitled to citizenship here so what nationality do you suggest?

Born in Britain, so I guess she would be considered British. I consider Irish people to be people who actually live here for a significant amount of time, born or raised here. How can one claim to be Irish otherwise?

ceadaoin.

Rattser wrote: »

Born in Britain, so I guess she would be considered British. I consider Irish people to be people who actually live here for a significant amount of time, born or raised here. How can one claim to be Irish otherwise?

I'm Irish. the only family she knows are irish and all live in Ireland. We go home a couple of times a year and hopefully will live there again in the future. It just makes sense to me for her to be an irish citizen. What are the negative effects on ireland caused by people with irish parents or grandparents claiming citizenship? I'm not really seeing any tbh

Berserker

Rattser wrote: »

But none of them should be given citizenship for having an Irish grandparent and having never lived here. That's simply ridiculous. They are not Irish and perhaps the government should be looking to change the law.

Should the same rule apply for people in NI? I know NI people, who have never lived in the RoI, have no intention of ever living here, consider themselves primarily British or Northern Irish but they are happy to snap up a second (Irish) passport which in the case of a Brexit will give them access to the EU. Personally, I am more than happy to give one to anyone from the British Isles. It's a tidy little revenue generator for us.

turnikett1

Rattser wrote: »

Born in Britain, so I guess she would be considered British. I consider Irish people to be people who actually live here for a significant amount of time, born or raised here. How can one claim to be Irish otherwise?

Being born somewhere doesn't mean you are that nationality. I have a white Irish friend of Irish parents who was born in Jamaica and lived there for 6 month... but he is not Jamaican.

I think it depends moreso where you grew up and among whom. If you grow up in America to Irish parents, then you're Irish-American. If you grow up in Australia to Lebanese parents you're Lebanese-Australian. I have lots of friends who were born and raised in Ireland to English parents, they would consider themselves Irish firstly and primarily but would have no problem identifying as English if ever needed or so desired. The Hiberno-English as I like to call them

Zebra3

They stole our passports.




No, wait, that was the Mossad murderers.

Rattser

turnikett1 wrote: »

Being born somewhere doesn't mean you are that nationality. I have a white Irish friend of Irish parents who was born in Jamaica and lived there for 6 month... but he is not Jamaican.

I think it depends moreso where you grew up and among whom. If you grow up in America to Irish parents, then you're Irish-American. If you grow up in Australia to Lebanese parents you're Lebanese-Australian. I have lots of friends who were born and raised in Ireland to English parents, they would consider themselves Irish firstly and primarily but would have no problem identifying as English if ever needed or so desired. The Hiberno-English as I like to call them

This is a somewhat convoluted topic. I know who definitely are not Irish. People born abroad, to parents born and raised abroad. These people definitely are not Irish and it is a bit mad giving them citizenship purely due to having an Irish granny or grandad.

Rattser

Berserker wrote: »

Should the same rule apply for people in NI? I know NI people, who have never lived in the RoI, have no intention of ever living here, consider themselves primarily British or Northern Irish but they are happy to snap up a second (Irish) passport which in the case of a Brexit will give them access to the EU. Personally, I am more than happy to give one to anyone from the British Isles. It's a tidy little revenue generator for us.

They get to choose to have either or under the GFA. At least they live on the island. Unlike those in the UK getting citizenship purely due to having an Irish granny. That's mad to me.

Explain exactly how it's a revenue generator? Citizenship through descent is €127.