Sleep

pgibbo

I've noticed over the last few weeks that after a tough session, turbo in particular, that the nights sleep that follows tends to be very unsettled. I fall of to sleep no problem but tend to wkae a few times during the night and feel restless. I always wake a lot earlier than normal too. Anyone else have this issue or know why it happens? The rest of the time I tend to sleep like a baby.

P.

68 lost souls

Possibly the release of adrenaline and cortisol as a result of exercise. There are other things happening so while you feel tired physically after exercise your brain finds it hard to turn off due to hormones being produced by said exercise. There have been several studies into it I believe.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Its to do with increased levels of adrenalin and cortisol following on from a tough session that is likely keeping you awake. Ideally try do the tougher sessions early morning or at least a few hours from bedtime. I often suffered the same but not as bad having about 3hrs in between finishing the session and bedtime.

edit: lost souls got there before me.

pgibbo

68 lost souls wrote: »

Possibly the release of adrenaline and cortisol as a result of exercise. There are other things happening so while you feel tired physically after exercise your brain finds it hard to turn off due to hormones being produced by said exercise. There have been several studies into it I believe.

Cheers. What has me confused though is why it's only happening now? Hasn't happened previously. I wonder does age play a part? North of 40 now so maybe that's a contributing factor.

sconhome

Get some magnesium into you at bedtime.

MalDoc

pgibbo wrote: »

Cheers. What has me confused though is why it's only happening now? Hasn't happened previously. I wonder does age play a part? North of 40 now so maybe that's a contributing factor.

The exact same thing happened me Sunday night and I'm 30. Took water on board during and a lot after, bit of food, then a shower. Bed before midnight and fell asleep straight away. 2:30 am and I'm wide awake tossing and turning for the rest of the night.

pgibbo

sconhome wrote: »

Get some magnesium into you at bedtime.

Cheers. Supplement or would you recommend foods that have it naturally. I always have a banana after a tough session and tend to have some peanut butter and oat cakes before bed too.

tunney

pgibbo wrote: »

I've noticed over the last few weeks that after a tough session, turbo in particular, that the nights sleep that follows tends to be very unsettled. I fall of to sleep no problem but tend to wkae a few times during the night and feel restless. I always wake a lot earlier than normal too. Anyone else have this issue or know why it happens? The rest of the time I tend to sleep like a baby.

P.

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BTH

MalDoc wrote: »

The exact same thing happened me Sunday night and I'm 30. Took water on board during and a lot after, bit of food, then a shower. Bed before midnight and fell asleep straight away. 2:30 am and I'm wide awake tossing and turning for the rest of the night.

Probably needed a piss.

pgibbo

tunney wrote: »

F
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lol....nope. He's down by 7:30 and sleeps to 6:30 or 7 every night.

The cause of restless nights is often restless legs, magnesium helps with this a lot.

A supplement, a bath in epsom salts just before bed, or a magnesium spray on the legs (particularly the backs of the knees) should make a difference

BTH

Hey Paul, pick me up some magnesium when you're in evergreen would ya. Cheers

That or sleeping tablets

sconhome

pgibbo wrote: »

Cheers. Supplement or would you recommend foods that have it naturally. I always have a banana after a tough session and tend to have some peanut butter and oat cakes before bed too.

Naturally is always best but you can always uses a supplement to see if it makes a difference to you. I take a Magnesium Citrate tablet because I drink a fair whack of coffee and it balances out nicely.

Re the 2:30 / 3am awake this often is an issue with liver function. I had an unbelievable insomnia episode where same time every night for months I was awake (think you spotted my tweets or something ) mentioned it to Derek King who promptly targeted my liver.

Solved that problem right away - known as frozen liver.

(And no the coffee and insomnia are not linked in my case)

pgibbo

I'll get you some when I'm in there BTH.

Cheers Sean. I wake and drift off to sleep shortly after again. That happens a few times. during the night. I never check the time but will do to see how it aligns with Dereks theories.

sconhome

And just to mention liver function is linked with stress and cortisol levels so its becoming circular too.

Don't forget to include life & work stresses when looking at the picture, don't just thing training stress.

mossym

sconhome wrote: »

Solved that problem right away - known as frozen liver.

googling frozen liver just turns up a bunch of recipes....

Green&Red

sconhome wrote: »

Naturally is always best but you can always uses a supplement to see if it makes a difference to you. I take a Magnesium Citrate tablet because I drink a fair whack of coffee and it balances out nicely.

Re the 2:30 / 3am awake this often is an issue with liver function. I had an unbelievable insomnia episode where same time every night for months I was awake (think you spotted my tweets or something ) mentioned it to Derek King who promptly targeted my liver.

Solved that problem right away - known as frozen liver.

(And no the coffee and insomnia are not linked in my case)

How?

Interesting thread

pgibbo

Green&Red wrote: »

How?

Interesting thread

Accupuncture - around the ankles and front of shin I believe for liver function. I go to Derek also and even though he is a chartered physio he likes to think outside the box and is very well trained across alternative methods.

I hear what you're saying about life and work stress Sean and I had considered that too. It only happens after an evening turbo where the work is worked. As Fran mentioned I'll see if getting the turbo done earlier helps. I'll also be trying some Mg.

tunney

ZMA and 5-HTP before bed. I was a light sleeper, now dead to the world until someone jumps on me.

mossym

tunney wrote: »

ZMA and 5-HTP before bed. I was a light sleeper, now dead to the world until someone jumps on me.

do you take them or give them to the kids?

MalDoc

BTH wrote: »

Probably needed a piss.

Ha, should have added after I went to the jacks.

Dory Dory

I go thru cycles of very poor sleep and I do think there is a correlation between that and a quality session just before bed and/or accumulated fatigue in the body/muscles. However, I do take magnesium...but I take it in the morning. Are you boys suggesting I should take it in the evening to help with sleep?

woody1

have the same issue after swimming twice a week, not in til 9 out at 10 / 10-15 awake half the night, will try the magnesium..

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

ZMA and 5-HTP before bed. I was a light sleeper, now dead to the world until someone jumps on me.

to recommend 5-htp on a forum might not be wise.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/

rodneyr1981

Could it just be that BTH's Copenhagen mind games are starting to get to you???

mossym

rodneyr1981 wrote: »

Could it just be that BTH's Copenhagen mind games are starting to get to you???

i'm going to need a lot of popcorn between now and august

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

to recommend 5-htp on a forum might not be wise.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/

Good article, heavily focused on the depression side of things.

But:
2. Melatonin- 5- HTP increases the amount of melatonin in the body, which helps people to sleep properly.

3. Weight Loss- A deficiency in serotonin often causes people to overeat, so the supplement may be an effective weight loss supplement for people who eat when they are in certain moods.

I never looked into the depression side much as I would be of the opinion that if you have a chemical imbalance you need medical help, and if you are depressed as a result of extraneous factors then no pill will make you happy until they are addressed.

Also if you are dicking with home remedies for mental health - there be dragons.

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

Also if you are dicking with home remedies for mental health - there be dragons.

Bang on.

If its muscle fatigue causing twitching and restlessness then nothing better than an epsome bath. You could warm down after hard late session too. Like last 10 mins super easy to flush out the legs.

If its mental, not even to the extent of depression, just your mind turning over then none of the remedies will work. You need to address root cause.

Each to their own but I rely on supplements as a last resort.

For legs turning over - a salty poached egg on toast and milk before bed.
For mind turning over - notebook to scribble down whatever it is, or send myself an email if work related. Its amazing that, once relieved of the mind, how easily you fall back to sleep. Plus the pure drivel you write down when you look at it the next morning can give you a laugh.

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

For mind turning over - notebook to scribble down whatever it is, or send myself an email if work related. Its amazing that, once relieved of the mind, how easily you fall back to sleep. Plus the pure drivel you write down when you look at it the next morning can give you a laugh.

I find the tactile nature of pen and paper much more effective!

pgibbo

I was chatting with someone about this yesterday and 2 other things were mentioned that might be of use to people.

1) Disturbed sleep can also be an indicator of overtraining;
2) If you are doing a detox (lent for example and cutting out the crap), this can stress the body and have an impact on sleep if it coincides with an increase in training or simply being in calorific deficit by from your normal training load.

P

mossym

so what did you give up for lent P? do you think it might be a factor?

pgibbo

mossym wrote: »

so what did you give up for lent P? do you think it might be a factor?

I gave up crisps, chocolate, sweets, etc. I can eat up 12 to 15 bags of crisps a week and 2 bars of chocolate a day. Some of the crisps are the big bags of Kettle, Keoghs and the likes. Add to that some sweets - typically jellies and removing them probably did have an impact. I noticed towards the end of last week that the disturbed sleep wasn't just happening when I was training in the evening. It happened 3 or 4 nights in a row.

I don't believe it's over training as I'm not clocking enough hours for that.

I had some acupuncture on Monday and I have been sleeping great since.

P.

kal7

Inflammation has natural peak at 3-4am.

So the damage in tissues, from hard session, which is inflamed (and making you stronger) will be peaking then, and you are not moving to pump the metabolites out either in sleep. This can cause restlessness and waking.

If sleep badly disturbed, walk around for 2min then back to bed.

mossym

pgibbo wrote: »

I gave up crisps, chocolate, sweets, etc. I can eat up 12 to 15 bags of crisps a week and 2 bars of chocolate a day. Some of the crisps are the big bags of Kettle, Keoghs and the likes. Add to that some sweets - typically jellies and removing them probably did have an impact. I noticed towards the end of last week that the disturbed sleep wasn't just happening when I was training in the evening. It happened 3 or 4 nights in a row.

I don't believe it's over training as I'm not clocking enough hours for that.

I had some acupuncture on Monday and I have been sleeping great since.

P.

how the hell do you stay at racing weight eating all that!!!

rodneyr1981

mossym wrote:

how the hell do you stay at racing weight eating all that!!!

Was thinking the exact same. I'm after putting on weight just reading that

pgibbo

I use lent to kick start the cleanup of the diet every year. I usually go back eating crap after lent but start to scale it back as race season approaches. I typically cut it out before the season starts and eat clean with the exception of parties and holidays. It's usually all or nothing with me for the sweet and savoury stuff. Once race season finishes it's back to the goodies

sconhome

I hate you P!!!

I just gained a kg reading that post

sconhome

sconhome wrote: »

Naturally is always best but you can always uses a supplement to see if it makes a difference to you. I take a Magnesium Citrate tablet because I drink a fair whack of coffee and it balances out nicely.

Re the 2:30 / 3am awake this often is an issue with liver function. I had an unbelievable insomnia episode where same time every night for months I was awake (think you spotted my tweets or something ) mentioned it to Derek King who promptly targeted my liver.

Solved that problem right away - known as frozen liver.

(And no the coffee and insomnia are not linked in my case)

I've had a couple of queries about this ^ and as it's general information and quite interesting I've a few posts to throw up here that I found useful explanation.

If your liver is not functioning properly ( a blood test at last annual health check 2 years ago flagged this) then the adrenals kick into play at 3am https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk/posts/131793176/why-do-i-always-wake-up-at-3am-%E2%80%93-a-simple-solution

I think what is confusing is that 'frozen liver' is possibly Derek's own words for the status of a slumbering liver brought on by stress.

Also worth checking out adrenal fatigue as training induces stress too.

A pre-sleep drink may help too:

Adrenal Cocktail Recipe
½ cup orange juice
½ teaspoon cream of tarter
½ teaspoon Himalayan or Celtic salt

• Fresh squeezed orange juice gives the liver glucose it needs to regenerate.
• Cream of tartar is high in potassium, an element that is essential for the sodium/potassium balance in cells, vital organs (liver), muscles, nerves, and the digestive system.
• Himalayan salt, contains 84 essential minerals and elements found in the human body, helping feed the adrenals and refresh body’s the sodium/potassium pump

.

Just mix all the ingredients and drink before bed.