Inheritance Problem - What to do?

bobba_gonna

This is a tough one, but here goes.

My mother passed away late last year. She never made a will. The farm is about 40 acres and a fairly modern house. My father died over 10 years ago and transferred everything at the time, over to my mother in his will. I have been farming the place, but not in my own name, since my father was alive, as he was in bad health in the latter years. I did the same for my mother. I never had anything in my own name, not even some stock. I was never paid either for any of the work I did.

There are 6 children, one who has special needs. We all sat down after my Mam's funeral and agreed the following. I would get the farm, machinery and stock and my older sister would get the home house, where she and my other sister with special needs would continue to live.

We have discussed this with our solicitor. Because my sister had special needs, she will be made a Ward Of Court. This means that she cannot sign over her entitlement for her 1/6 share of my mam's estate, like my other siblings have agreed to do. She must be provided for. This 1/6 share amounts to quite a bit considering the house is also involved. Lets say it is about €60k. On top of this the farm is seriously run down in terms of sheds and machinery and will need maybe another €40k for that. Add to that, there may be outstanding income tax issues, as my mother never filed any tax returns, despite my best efforts to get her to do so.

So the question is, what should I do? If I pay all of this. I am looking at maybe 20 years down the line of working for nothing, to pay it back. I've already spent nearly 40 years already working on the farm for no pay.
If we decide to sell the farm, I will be at least €150k better off. I know my siblings don't want to sell. Either would have both my parents.
We were hoping that the Ward Of Courts office would be satisfied my sister would be cared for anyway but our solicitor says that no, they will insist on the money being put aside.

alps

Best of luck with this Bobba. Can't be of much help to you I'm afraid, but things may not be all bad. I think you're lucky that your siblings appreciate the time and effort you put into your parents and the farm, and this goodwill from people will help you through this.
I would just say yo get a good accountant. Maybe the outstanding tax returns are not a huge issue. Maybe maintenance of your special needs sister could be set up as a tax allowable expense to your benefit. Have a word with another solicitor just to see if they would have a different approach to things, and be careful about investing in the farm until you are sure it will generate a return. Buildings and machinery are very difficult to get a return from...stock and soil optimisation would be far more important.
Hopefully someone here will have some relevant advise for you....

Muckit

Hi Op.

Fair play for having the courage to post. l'm sure your head is doing 90 over it all. I know it may sound a tad clichéd, but things have a way of working themselves out, and they will.


Regarding the situation with your sister l would seek a second and third opinion from different solicitors. My own unqualified opinion would be of course she is entitled to a 6th of the estate...... that estate being the house AND farm combined. A sixth of the entire could be half the house, which she is getting by getting to live in it.

Ye are all in a great position to sort this out. Ye are all amicable about who gets what and all of ye l'm sure have your sister's best welfare at heart. This is excellent. You need to ensure this is how things stay. Keep a cool head. Keep tight lipped if someone says anything that upsets you. Family issues are all very emotive and this inheritance is all the more so perhaps given you all have your sister with a disability to think about.

In summary, get plenty of professional advice. Solicitors,and good ones, more so as they will be able to explain the legal facts in relation to all this.

l wish you the very best of luck. Above all don't do the ostrich on this. Seek professional advice. It will cost a few bob (and maybe not as much as you think). Go on your own behalf and with an advocate if you want for support someone other than any of your siblings. Ye all probably need your own solicitor anyways. Don't confine yourself to immediately local practices as it doesn't matter what corner of the country they are from.

Take care

smokey-fitz

Sorry to hear about your situation. At least you have the support of your family on this matter. You may or may not of tought of this, but would it be possible to put a site or 2 in your sisters name to the value needed? Then down the line if funding is needed for her the site can be sold on her behalf.

Best of luck.

Askim

Hi op

Good that ye are all talking and sorting it out.
Could your sisters 1/6th of the inheritance be land that would be in her name, and you rent it from her, this would allow her security and an income, all done through the court ??

Just my 2 cents

A

bobba_gonna

Guys,
Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate them all.

My head is doing 90 alright, that's for sure. Kinda wish I didn't just walk away from it all when my father passed away. Would have saved my a lot of arguments and banging my head off the wall since. But we are where we are, as the politicians say.
We don't get along that well as a family either. My mam had Alzheimer's for 2 years before she died and my eldest sister gave up her job to care full time for her. There are other family members who refused to lift a finger, so the taught of them getting a share of the estate is one very good reason not to sell it.

We did run it by our solicitor that both my sisters would have joint ownership of the house but he ruled that out. if we could sign part of the land over in her name, that would be great.
I'm more inclined to just lease out the place. I'm right in saying that I can do this tax free, under certain conditions. My mam had some savings. We could also sell off the cattle and I suppose I could make up the balance. That way we could hold onto all the property. It seems to be the best option.
I'll go talk to an accountant first. Anyway, thanks again.

Reggie.

bobba_gonna wrote: »

Guys,
Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate them all.

My head is doing 90 alright, that's for sure. Kinda wish I didn't just walk away from it all when my father passed away. Would have saved my a lot of arguments and banging my head off the wall since. But we are where we are, as the politicians say.
We don't get along that well as a family either. My mam had Alzheimer's for 2 years before she died and my eldest sister gave up her job to care full time for her. There are other family members who refused to lift a finger, so the taught of them getting a share of the estate is one very good reason not to sell it.

We did run it by our solicitor that both my sisters would have joint ownership of the house but he ruled that out. if we could sign part of the land over in her name, that would be great.
I'm more inclined to just lease out the place. I'm right in saying that I can do this tax free, under certain conditions. My mam had some savings. We could also sell off the cattle and I suppose I could make up the balance. That way we could hold onto all the property. It seems to be the best option.
I'll go talk to an accountant first. Anyway, thanks again.

Best of luck with it OP

JustAThought

This is heartbreaking to read- I'm very sorry for the position you find yourself in & all the years you've spent making sacrifices for others. Have you considered selling the land & starting a new life - emigrate or move & start up for yourself with a waged job somewhere & be free of it all. Solicitors are a money pit - you could call & ask for an appointment with the free legal advice people ( dont say you've been to a solicitor already or they won't see you) & ask for their legal perspective - they migh come up with a solution that gives you scope for allyhe years of free labour you gave /invested in your family - I recall a court casesome years back on inheritance by an elderly (60's) cousin who had worked for free most of his life on the understanding of being left the farm ( he won). There are branches of FLAC around the country - if you asked for an appointment with someone with a specific knowledge about farms & inheritance & asked them to see if they could establish that someone with that speciality was ' on' that would be a good investment of your time - the service is free, & you get one visit. You can arrange an appointment outside your area/county if you don't want to run the risk of running into a solicitor who knows you.

I'm sorry for the circumstances you find yourself in - it sounds like you and your sister have done the right thing by your family & parents & are very good people. I hope it works out for you.

I know its hard but you could try the bitter truth on your siblings & see if they'll voluntarily yield on their ' rights' - you have given up so much for them & your family & your moms comfort & stabity - both physically & financially - this should be recognised & considered in the arrangements.

bobba_gonna

Sorry, I should have been clearer. When I say I worked on the farm, it was only part-time. I work full-time off farm, so I'm comfortable enough in that sense.
I can't sell the farm as I don't own it. I'm only a 1/6th share in it, as things stand.

OUTDOORLASS

Just be careful with the sibling with special needs. If she is deemed to have too much assets, she might lose her
medical card/allowances etc. I know of a family, whose parents did without, to ensure there was a few bob left
for the sibling with special needs. It resulted in her loosing all her allowances. It is.nt just a matter of money etc from
the Government. Sometimes by not having a medical card etc, you fall out of the system, and out of all the add on services provided to people with special needs. Best wishes.

bobba_gonna

I thought I'd update on this. Progress has being slow to say the least. Kinda getting to the end of my tether. There are now 3 solicitors involved. Unbelievable, I know. Let me stress that the whole family are still in agreement. If it was left to us, we would have it sorted in an hour.
There is one solicitor for the estate, one for my sister and one for myself.
The accounts have been submitted up to the time of death and there are no outstanding taxes.
Basically I have been funding the farm for the last 4 years with no income to offset against it. Basic payments cant be accessed. Mart cheques can't be cashed. None of the solicitors seem to see anything amiss with this.:mad:
To think all of this could have been avoided by simply sitting down and talking to people. I'll be lucky if it is all wrapped up in 4 years. If only I'd walked away years ago.

K.G.

Arent you lucky though your sibli gs are not fighting with you though.in my opinion looking after the farm was really looking after your parents and i supect yiu helping allowed them to continue in their own way in business which kept them happy.park the money for a while as you say yourself you have got the farm and if it comes down to it its an asset to cover what you pay out.i know your siblings dont want it sold but its not your fault there was no will made so if some land has to be sold to finance the situation so be it.if can finance it you are hopefully getting an asset at a discount .dont focus on past decisions,nothing can be done about it now.

wrangler

The way this'll be treated by revenue is that your siblings will get the inheritance and then they gifted it to you so the conditions of CAT apply,
I was involved in something like this lately..... not personally, just helping out.
Your agriculture relief will be at risk on any you sell , any way your accountant will sort it and yes it could take years

blue5000

PM sent, hope things work out for you.

mrs.doubt.fire

I too am from a family of 6. Dont worry, it's a given that at least one sibling will throw a spanner in the works and not go with the flow, they may not back down either but it will have to be a team effort to talk them around.

Be careful with solicitors, when sending ''solicitors letters'' to one another, those letters could run from a few 100 Euros to a thousand Euros per letter !! No point in getting the whole situation sorted out and then having to sell everything including the home to pay all the legal bills. Best of luck and I hope the sibling(s) that have not yet come around, do come around.

bobba_gonna

Thanks for the replies. I suppose part of reason for posting all this is that others can learn from this. Bit of a rant too I suppose. I went from having my father pressurising me to take over the farm, I was 34 at the time, to now all these years later just wishing I had walked away at the time. What a mess? Hindsight is a great thinhg as they say. In a way I wish one of my siblings had contested things. We could sell it all off and I could walk away. All considered, Life is too short.

Choc Chip

wrangler wrote: »

The way this'll be treated by revenue is that your siblings will get the inheritance and then they gifted it to you so the conditions of CAT apply,
I was involved in something like this lately..... not personally, just helping out.
Your agriculture relief will be at risk on any you sell , any way your accountant will sort it and yes it could take years

Dont structure it as above. That results in 2 CAT events (the inheritance to the sibling then the gift to you). Speak to a qualified tax advisor if possible. It'll cost, but far less than the tax you'll save.

mrs.doubt.fire

bobba_gonna wrote: »

....There are 6 children, one who has special needs. We all sat down after my Mam's funeral and agreed the following. I would get the farm, machinery and stock and my older sister would get the home house, where she and my other sister with special needs would continue to live.

If we decide to sell the farm, I will be at least €150k better off. I know my siblings don't want to sell. Either would have both my parents.
....

If your siblings have agreed that you get the farm (land, stock and machinery), in my opinion your siblings have just given up their right if you later decide to sell it, they have no say in your decisions and rightly so. I think if you later decide it's in YOUR best interest to sell it, go ahead and sell it. If any of your siblings are not happy with your decision just tell them nicely and calmly...''if you really want to keep it in the family name, it IS for sale, so make me an offer''

Green&Red

It sounds like very hard work OP but as someone says at least your siblings are in agreement and not contesting.
It can be hard but remember that everyone involved has just lost their mother, emotions are high so try and be measured. By the sounds of it especially with your sister who minded your mam, you've held your job but she has given up hers and feels let down by the others where it sounds like while you might regret it you made your own decision when you were 34.

As for selling it, it might sound a bit sneaky but I'd wait until the whole thing was sorted out and in your name but floating the idea to them that you were thinking of selling up, it can be framed better. By the sounds of it you've earned the right to make that decision

The best of luck, families can be hard. Its a cautionary tale to others to have things sorted out long before your parents pass