Serious Ectomorph Struggling

9de5q7tsr8u2im

I've been lifting for over 3 years now, 2 years of learning and wasting time and a lot of on and off months due to study, GAA most of the time.
Really struggling to see body changes but impressed enough with lifts.

definitely think its my diet and my metabolism is very high, and also a lot of physical and high intensity GAA trainings have made my goal very hard to achieve, my weight is around the 60kg mark.
in all honesty I've gone through 5 Optimum nutrition 100% whey protein tubs and believe me at the end of it I've achieved nothing drastically besides a small bit of strength. After going through and through the tubs I then lose motivation to continue lifting and would go through a period of unhappiness. Then out of no where I'd regain the motivation to lift again...


in terms of my performance in the gym, I'm quite strong, have been progressing not much and my form is fine. at this stage I've read so many BB articles countless of hours watching youtube lifters.

I'm a college student so money is tight but I'm going to squeeze €50 weekly for food, which is the cheapest and best value for money out of aldi/lidl/Tesco?
- Going to give 2L Milk a day a go around €13/€14 weekly


Would appreciate any advice on diets for serious hardgainers, I know its my diet which is affecting my desired results so if you could recommend any decent foods to buy would be great, oh and also recipes would be fantastic!

Alf Veedersane

Do you track how much you're eating?

If you're eating decent food, you can eat a 'lot' and never be hungry but never really goiing above maintenance if you're doing a lot of high intensity GAA training as well.

Track what you're eating on MyFitnessPal and eat more if you're not putting on any mass.

Protein shakes can't manufacture muscle out of nothing. You need to be eating at a surplus to put on muscle.

Irishcrx

Can releate , you really need be tracking what your eating. Eating at maintenance and lifting will get you nowhere, not gaining muscle and not getting leaner...just staying the same. You'd be surprised at your food intake once tracking so that's your first issue , get myfittness pal and start tracking.

Like yourself , When I started lifting and trying to gain size cardio was an issue for me as well as a fast metabilism . I trained 3 days a week and had a match on Saturday so I was burning a lot of calories. I had to get smart with it , I worked out my calories using the app for non training days and was around 500 over maintenance , on training days/match I'd have to be around 1000 over to compensate and still be in a net return of 500 over despite training. It can be tough some days to eat that amount so I added protein shakes.

I started at 64KG and couldn't really move far past that in my first few month's lifting due to the above , I made the changes and since last July or so I'm now 76KG , far bigger , far stronger , more muscle and very little fat gain. Here are a couple of foods to look at on budget , basing this off what I generally eat day to day to get the calories and protein up and also don't cost a fortune. If your on a budget , don't worry to much about whole grains etc just get it into you on a bulk , worry about that way down the line if you want to cut.

* Milk (I generally drink 2 litres a day or more, great source of protein , have it with meals)
* Whey protein shake with milk (Whey 100 calories , milk whole 400 ml 250 - 280 calories)
* Pasta
* Mince
* Pork
* Potatoes ( One large potatoe 200 grams = 200 calories)
* Peas
* Chicken
* Steak (Butchers you can get large and cheap cuts if you must)
* Burgers
* Protein yogarts (€1) each

9de5q7tsr8u2im

Thanks so much for the replies guys, means so much to me, appreciate it a lot!!!

Alf Veedersane

Here's a handy calorie calculator you can use to work out what your TDEE is.

Your TDEE is your Total Daily Energy Allowance, i.e. the calories you burn in a day.

If the calories you eat is equal to your TDEE, you stay the same weight. If you eat more than your TDEE you put on weight.

Look to put on a pound/half kilo every 1-2 weeks. That'd work out eating about 250 calories above TDEE a day. It's not an exact science so if you're talking longer to put on the weight, up your calories until you're putting on a half kilo every 1-2 weeks.

Mellor

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

definitely think its my diet and my metabolism is very high, and also a lot of physical and high intensity GAA trainings have made my goal very hard to achieve, my weight is around the 60kg mark.

Most people who say that have a fast metabolism simply don't eat enough.
It's an extra few calories burned a day tops, you won't be burning everything to same as 60kg constantly.

Endo, Meso, Ecto labels do more harm than good imo. None will magically put on mass. You still have to do the same no matter which you are. The end result is a slightly different shape.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me7wf5FGQc1qg1vd7.jpg

in all honesty I've gone through 5 Optimum nutrition 100% whey protein tubs and believe me at the end of it I've achieved nothing drastically besides a small bit of strength. After going through and through the tubs I then lose motivation to continue lifting and would go through a period of unhappiness. Then out of no where I'd regain the motivation to lift again...

A tub is maybe 9,000cals. So 5 tubs is 45,000cals. It sounds like a lot. But over a year, its 125 cals a day - maybe 5% of your calorie needs. If you used the 5 tubs over the 3 years not just the last year. The its <50cals a day, and maybe 2%.

So as you can guess. It's the other 95% of your food that decides whether you put on size, not the 5 tubs of protein. The above might be a strange was to look at it, but its how you need to think.

in terms of my performance in the gym, I'm quite strong, have been progressing not much and my form is fine. at this stage I've read so many BB articles countless of hours watching youtube lifters.

How strong?

Regardless, you can always be stronger.
Get stronger, lift more weight, eat more = get bigger.

I'm a college student so money is tight but I'm going to squeeze €50 weekly for food, which is the cheapest and best value for money out of aldi/lidl/Tesco?
- Going to give 2L Milk a day a go around €13/€14 weekly

2 litres is a good start. But it's only 1200 cals. That's less than halfway there, you need to consider that at all times.


Based on the calculator Alf's posted. You need maybe 2600 calories a day to maintain your weight (maybe more depending on activity).
You gain weight you'll need to go over this everyday. I'd recommend eating 2800 calories minimum, and getting 120-150g of protein.
If you are still 60kg after 3-4 weeks, then you need to up it to 3000 cals, every day.

(I made some assumptions about your stats, feel free to plug in your own values. But the end result will in that ball park I'd guess)

El_Dangeroso

It's all about intake. See if your GP would prescribe cyproheptadine for you. It's a 1st generation anti-histamine with very few side-effects, except for massive appetite increase and weight gain. They give it to babies sometimes who fail to thrive. It's incredibly potent for adding weight, it also pleasantly gives you excellent digestion.

Alf Veedersane

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

It's all about intake. See if your GP would prescribe cyproheptadine for you. It's a 1st generation anti-histamine with very few side-effects, except for massive appetite increase and weight gain. They give it to babies sometimes who fail to thrive. It's incredibly potent for adding weight, it also pleasantly gives you excellent digestion.

Is that really necessary though? The OP has no idea if his intake is anywhere near where it needs to be so I'd have thought that addressing that would be the first port of call.

El_Dangeroso

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Is that really necessary though? The OP has no idea if his intake is anywhere near where it needs to be so I'd have thought that addressing that would be the first port of call.

Not necessary, but not that drastic either. It's a safe medication, similar safety profile of other anti-histamines.

GOMAD would definitely be the first thing to try. But I've just not seen it work in true ectomorphs, not like cypro does.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Not necessary, but not that drastic either. It's a safe medication, similar safety profile of other anti-histamines.

GOMAD would definitely be the first thing to try. But I've just not seen it work in true ectomorphs, not like cypro does.

Thanks giving 2L a shot a day seriously though almost 4 litres a day would wreck my already ruined pimple face and also the gases which is a huge factor especially when im in college!!

Alf Veedersane

Have you been tracking your food and drink intake?

Mellor

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

GOMAD would definitely be the first thing to try. But I've just not seen it work in true ectomorphs, not like cypro does.

Most true ectomorphs are simply not eating enough imo.
The fact that cypro apparently works would back up that idea. As from what I understand, it simply increases appetite, and doesn't change your you body handles fat/muscle growth.

El_Dangeroso

Mellor wrote: »

Most true ectomorphs are simply not eating enough imo.
The fact that cypro apparently works would back up that idea. As from what I understand, it simply increases appetite, and doesn't change your you body handles fat/muscle growth.

Eating more than your body wants is surprisingly difficult for some people. The same way losing weight and keeping it off can be difficult for others.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Eating more than your body wants is surprisingly difficult for some people. The same way losing weight and keeping it off can be difficult for others.

Awh damn i wish i could gain weight easily..
Its so easy for me to lose weight even though im a guy which is depressing..

Alf Veedersane

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

Awh damn i wish i could gain weight easily..
Its so easy for me to lose weight even though im a guy which is depressing..

Have you been tracking your intake?

Mellor

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Eating more than your body wants is surprisingly difficult for some people. The same way losing weight and keeping it off can be difficult for others.

I'm aware it's very difficult for some to eat surplus. But that doesn't change the fact that that's what it comes down to.
If somebody who struggles like that is aware of their issue, it's a huge step in the right direction. A lot of people appear to be under the impression they are eating loads when they aren't.

will56

Mellor wrote: »

A lot of people appear to be under the impression they are eating loads when they aren't.

This is the problem summed up. Unless you sit down and work out what calories you're consuming its always guess work as to why you're not gaining weight.

Plus it has to be excess calories, every day, every week to see an increase. I was the typical "fast metabolism", turns out only eating 1/2 meals on a Saturday & Sunday were more an issue than my metabolism

El_Dangeroso

Mellor wrote: »

I'm aware it's very difficult for some to eat surplus. But that doesn't change the fact that that's what it comes down to.
If somebody who struggles like that is aware of their issue, it's a huge step in the right direction. A lot of people appear to be under the impression they are eating loads when they aren't.

No one is disputing that. But I do think you underestimate how hard it is to overeat long term and establish a higher body set point. The reason they think they are eating loads is because they feel extremely full all the time. It's really hard to eat when you feel stuffed constantly. No amount of awareness of your intake will change that.

Alf Veedersane

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

No one is disputing that. But I do think you underestimate how hard it is to overeat long term and establish a higher body set point. The reason they think they are eating loads is because they feel extremely full all the time. It's really hard to eat when you feel stuffed constantly. No amount of awareness of your intake will change that.

Surely the type of food they eat will play a role in that. A few substitutions of more calorie dense foods could add a decent amount of calories without the OP needing to eat a greater volume of food.

Mellor

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

No one is disputing that. But I do think you underestimate how hard it is to overeat long term and establish a higher body set point. The reason they think they are eating loads is because they feel extremely full all the time. It's really hard to eat when you feel stuffed constantly. No amount of awareness of your intake will change that.

I'm not underestimating anything. I never said it was easy for everyone.
I'm saying that's what it boils down, no matter how easy or hard you find it. I'm not sure why you keep repeating that it's not easy tbh.

El_Dangeroso

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not underestimating anything. I never said it was easy for everyone.
I'm saying that's what it boils down, no matter how easy or hard you find it. I'm not sure why you keep repeating that it's not easy tbh.

I'm not sure why you keep repeating that it's down to taking in more food, that was never in dispute

El_Dangeroso

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Surely the type of food they eat will play a role in that. A few substitutions of more calorie dense foods could add a decent amount of calories without the OP needing to eat a greater volume of food.

Ectomorphs tend to be expert calorie sensors, so their stomach gets full from fat per calorie as much as carbs. Much harder to 'sneak' calories past their satiety mechanisms.

Alf Veedersane

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Ectomorphs tend to be expert calorie sensors, so their stomach gets full from fat per calorie as much as carbs. Much harder to 'sneak' calories past their satiety mechanisms.

The OP has called himself an ectomorph but the actual OP suggests someone who doesn't get enough calories on board to be in a surplus given their level of activity.

Part of his reason for deciding that he was an ectomorph was the consumption of whey with no real results.

Sub in bog standard mass gainer and you get 4 times the calories for little effort.

I'm just sceptical that the OP has tried much beyond protein shakes to overcome this. Not saying he's looking for excuses but the basic first step for putting on mass is to assess your intake and assess your output and use that as a starting point. Then you tackle getting the additional intake.

El_Dangeroso

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The OP has called himself an ectomorph but the actual OP suggests someone who doesn't get enough calories on board to be in a surplus given their level of activity.

Part of his reason for deciding that he was an ectomorph was the consumption of whey with no real results.

Sub in bog standard mass gainer and you get 4 times the calories for little effort.

I'm just sceptical that the OP has tried much beyond protein shakes to overcome this. Not saying he's looking for excuses but the basic first step for putting on mass is to assess your intake and assess your output and use that as a starting point. Then you tackle getting the additional intake.

You're right, I took OP at face value. I've just seen true ectomorphs do things like GOMAD which can be utterly miserable and even cause digestive upset, only to lose the weight gained almost immediately after they stopped.

Because most people find it easy enough to gain weight, it's hard to imagine the opposite scenario.

Mellor

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm not sure why you keep repeating that it's down to taking in more food, that was never in dispute

Because you keep quoting me and saying how hard it is, or that i'm underestimating it. Going in circles at this point. I think we both understand the issue

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

Awh damn i wish i could gain weight easily..
Its so easy for me to lose weight even though im a guy which is depressing..

As suggested, have you tracked what you eat? What's a typical day.
have you tried high calories substitution?