Will sending a child to be without dinner be considered neglect?

lifeandtimes

Hi everyone,

In light of recent changes regarding "slapping" minors or not being able to use the "it was only a slap" defence in relation to punishment of minors, will the situation of sending a child to bed without dinner be brought into this legislation or be considered neglect and be punishable by law?

Just curious as growing up i would have got a clatter on the ear or was sent to bed without dinner as a form of punishment and never saw it as assault or neglect but with the way this world is trying to be politically correct I can see it happening

ohnonotgmail

Isn't that pretty much the definition of neglect?

afatbollix

Missing 5 dinners would be neglect being bold and sent to bed wouldn't be neglect. You are still able to discipline your child just not physical.

Stheno

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi everyone,

In light of recent changes regarding "slapping" minors or not being able to use the "it was only a slap" defence in relation to punishment of minors, will the situation of sending a child to bed without dinner be brought into this legislation or be considered neglect and be punishable by law?

Just curious as growing up i would have got a clatter on the ear or was sent to bed without dinner as a form of punishment and never saw it as assault or neglect but with the way this world is trying to be politically correct I can see it happening

Deliberately sending a child to bed hungry as a punishment rather than not being able to afford a hot meal?

Neglect to me.There are no excuses for depriving a child of food if one is in a situation to provide that food.

Manach

One would suppose it would depends if the applicable state law would be triggered by a one off event or else would it be a series of events?

screamer

Starving a child to punish them is IMHO worse than slapping them. Cant imagine a little kid spending the night with a rumbling tummy. Id not sleep if I was hungry. It's an unacceptable form of punishment.

Dial Hard

No.

If I didn't want the dinner that was on offer growing up the choice I was given was to eat or go to bed hungry. Being a very stubborn child, I went to bed with no dinner more than once during my childhood.

To suggest that I was in any way neglected is laughable.

A child being denied a single meal once in a while as a form of discipline in the context of the OP is in no way "the definition of neglect".

nkav86

Dial Hard wrote:

If I didn't want the dinner that was on offer growing up the choice I was given was to eat or go to bed hungry. Being a very stubborn child, I went to bed with no dinner more than once during my childhood.

Exactly the same in my house growing up, wasn't neglect it was a learning experience, my mam didn't have the money or the time to make different dinners for me and my 4 brothers so what was given was expected to be eaten. Yeah I was hungry but I was never starved, I think the image of a child sad and alone with a rumbling tummy is coming to people's minds here, I don't think the situation is that extreme, more often than not we were handed up the same uneaten dinner the next night too, we'd eat it then! Just my opinion

GerardKeating

screamer wrote: »

Starving a child to punish them is IMHO worse than slapping them. Cant imagine a little kid spending the night with a rumbling tummy. Id not sleep if I was hungry. It's an unacceptable form of punishment.

There is a big difference between missing one meal, being hungry and starving...

esforum

afatbollix wrote: »

Missing 5 dinners would be neglect being bold and sent to bed wouldn't be neglect. You are still able to discipline your child just not physical.

where does the 5 dinners come in? Is that a guideline somewhere or just an opinion?

Food is a basic human right and requirement, I think it could be seen as neglect. Personally it wouldnt be my first choice of discipline either but then I didnt see the harm in a small slap anyway so clearly Im a monster

screamer

GerardKeating wrote: »

screamer wrote: »

Starving a child to punish them is IMHO worse than slapping them. Cant imagine a little kid spending the night with a rumbling tummy. Id not sleep if I was hungry. It's an unacceptable form of punishment.

There is a big difference between missing one meal, being hungry and starving...

Add your reply here.

Not when you're a child. deliberate withholding of food to punish children is starvation and is completely unacceptable even once.

MarkAnthony

You're asking in the wrong forum. You're also going to get a pretty much 50/50 split on people pontificating on whether it is or is not neglect.

There's no case law on it as far as I know, and unlike a clatter as you colourfully put it there is no simple piece of legislation to point to and say 'there is the law'.

I'll allow myself some pontificating; I always used to say I'd smack my kids if bold "It never did me any harm" someone said to me once "yes it did, it made you think it was okay to kid a child". It made me stop and think. Bed without dinner - meh, would probably do the majority of the porky little bastards good! :pac:

Livefornow

Originally Posted by Dial Hard
If I didn't want the dinner that was on offer growing up the choice I was given was to eat or go to bed hungry. Being a very stubborn child, I went to bed with no dinner more than once during my childhood.

nkav86 wrote: »

Exactly the same in my house growing up, wasn't neglect it was a learning experience, my mam didn't have the money or the time to make different dinners for me and my 4 brothers so what was given was expected to be eaten. Yeah I was hungry but I was never starved, I think the image of a child sad and alone with a rumbling tummy is coming to people's minds here, I don't think the situation is that extreme, more often than not we were handed up the same uneaten dinner the next night too, we'd eat it then! Just my opinion

I would think the difference here is that in these examples the child has chosen not to eat the food provided.

Withholding food from a child that you have a duty of care for, as a form of punishment or discipline, is totally unacceptable and inexcusable.

ectoraige

Legally, I haven't a clue. However, using food as the basis of a reward/punishment system isn't very good parenting strategy, and is probably a good way to set up some form of eating disorder.

If a child chooses not to eat the food provided, that's another matter as the child is choosing to go hungry. Catering to their stubbornness will just grow fussy eaters, mostly when a child says they don't like a certain food, it really means either they don't want it, or they just aren't used to it.

galljga1

No idea about the legal position but it would break our household golden rule: never go to bed on a row.

_Brian

Surely using food as reward or punishment isn't a wonderful position to take.
We should be promoting a healthy balanced attitude to food and nutrition.

Personally sending a child to bed hungry is an awful thought, as bad in my eyes as slapping.

beauf

GerardKeating wrote: »

There is a big difference between missing one meal, being hungry and starving...

Blocking them on faceache will soon be akin to mental cruelty. The phrase I'm hungry is used in our house to avoid things like bedtime. How many bowls of gruel can a child eat....

The Bishop Basher

If you have children and the means to feed them every day then you feed them every day.

If they need to be punished for something, find a non violent way to punish them such as grounding or removing privileges.

Then feed them.

As a parent I would see this is one of the most basic needs my children will have and it's not my place to deny them a basic essential such as food.

TV, IPads, phones etc are non essential and removed at the drop of a hat if the situation requires it.

Deliberately not feeding your kids is neglect plain and simple.

Indricotherium

As an aside, how pointless is this legislation!?

Can't imagine someone who is really going to damage a child with a severe beating is now going to stop and say ah no this is against the law.

lifeandtimes

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your replies.

A lot of good input here, maybe i should give an example?

A child is being bold,not listening,acting up all day, it comes to dinner time and the child continues to act up, not eating dinner by throwing it, annoying people etc so if the child was then sent to their room as punishment for the evening.

One meal missed as punishment, would that count as neglect or something that will be outlawed in the future in the same way current legislation says children as not allowed be slapped?

Just to point out in this scenario the child would then have breakfast,apologize for their behavior and learns their lesson going forward

MarkAnthony

Putting aside the morality of it for a second here's my (what I hope is a) logical analysis of it.

An otherwise well fed and well nourished child is denied one meal after being bold. Assuming no further complaint was made by the child, I can't see it as neglect unless there was some underlying medical condition, known or unknown. Assuming the child made a complaint one would have to use the best judgement as a parent whether or not the child was in genuine distress.

Is it neglect? I can't answer that, as stated above there's no case law as far as I can see. We're talking about a child who needs 2000 calories a day perhaps getting 1600 one day and making it up the next. If that's neglect surely it's a lower standard than of neglect than a child regularly getting 2500 calories a day and is thus overweight.

It seems to me the punishment is more the lack of eating with the rest of the family, rather than the systematic deprivation of food, which would be neglect. If one was to engage in a purely sematic argument I suppose it's the dictionary definition of neglect. I'd argue all parents neglect their children at some stage, wilful or otherwise, no one is perfect.

endacl

Send the little bugger up to bed with a half a head o' cabbage. Cabbage is food, ergo no neglect.

The Bishop Basher

lifeandtimes wrote: »

A child is being bold,not listening,acting up all day, it comes to dinner time and the child continues to act up, not eating dinner by throwing it, annoying people etc so if the child was then sent to their room as punishment for the evening.

One meal missed as punishment, would that count as neglect or something that will be outlawed in the future in the same way current legislation says children as not allowed be slapped?

In this scenario, I would see the child missing dinner as a symptom of their behaviour at the table as opposed to withdrawing food from a child as a general punishment.

I imagine the intent would play a significant role in how any future legislation is applied.

Little CuChulainn

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your replies.

A lot of good input here, maybe i should give an example?

A child is being bold,not listening,acting up all day, it comes to dinner time and the child continues to act up, not eating dinner by throwing it, annoying people etc so if the child was then sent to their room as punishment for the evening.

One meal missed as punishment, would that count as neglect or something that will be outlawed in the future in the same way current legislation says children as not allowed be slapped?

Just to point out in this scenario the child would then have breakfast,apologize for their behavior and learns their lesson going forward

Can't see how that would be considered neglect. If it were, I'd imagine every parent in the country would have committed the offence in the first year of the laws inception.

runawaybishop

screamer wrote: »

Add your reply here.

Not when you're a child. deliberate withholding of food to punish children is starvation and is completely unacceptable even once.

Missing one meal doesn't cause starvation.

NUTLEY BOY

I recommend bed with bread and water.

This affords the good defence that the child was actually fed.

afatbollix

I have the feeling some people haven't tried to feed a toddler.

Victor

In being 'bold', had the child eaten a day's worth of calories in chocolate?

Assuming egregious misconduct, I would be slow to count the loss of a single meal as neglect.

However, denial of food isn't a course of action I would take.

MadDog76

I try to encourage my children to eat a well-balanced meal, along with the obligatory treats of course, and have at times have told them "If you don't want to eat your dinner then you can go to bed hungry!" ........... but, being way too much of a pushover with my kids, I inevitably bring them up toast or a cereal before they go to sleep.

Regarding the Op, is it neglect? No. Is being a parent difficult? Yes ....... and increasingly so in the modern day world.