Is he, or isn't he? (A relative, that is).

The Chieftain

For years, I have been searching for a missing first cousin of my grandmother's.
He was born in 1865, the rest of family emigrated to US in 1882 onwards, and he was still alive in 1913, when he was mentioned in his mother's obituary. But in between 1865 and the mention in 1913, nothing, and nothing afterwards. Until today. Today I found a candidate. Within a few hours I located him and his family in several US census returns, as well as marriage and death details. Part of the match is great, but there is also a very significant mismatch. What do you folks think?

What matches
Christian name - William
Additional christian name at death: Aden - matches fathers name, see below.
Exact date of birth 8/1/1865
Place of birth - Wexford

What does not match:
US surname spelling is Crane, but this is a common variant of Crean(e), the name that appears in the Wexford records.
Key difference is in parent's names. Names on death cert are William for father, and Collins for mother, whereas birth in wexford are for Aidan for father and Redmond for mother.

As to the parents names, both civil registration and parish records are available. I am reasonably sure that there are no births to parents with the US listed names in Wexford in that timeframe.

So, what to conclude? This is the most confusing case I have yet to encounter where multiple details fit perfectly, yet other key points disagree.

spurious

I'm quite new to all this, but I always wondered where people get the family info for a death cert.. Is it from surviving family members? What if they don't know? aren't clear? are misinformed?

I know if I were to have been the one to give information on (say) my grandmother, I would have been a bit stuck on her parents' names. Until I started to look, of course.

The Aidan/Aden detail would strike me as a very strong connection.

Mollymoo19

My next step would be to order a copy of his marriage certificate/licence and see if his parent's names are recorded. You might then be able to conclude one way or the other.

The Chieftain

Mollymoo19 wrote: »

My next step would be to order a copy of his marriage certificate/licence and see if his parent's names are recorded. You might then be able to conclude one way or the other.

Chicago marriage licenses seem to be unlike most other US certificates, and only have the name of the bride and groom. i.e. worse than the Irish information, believe that or not!

The Chieftain

spurious wrote: »

I'm quite new to all this, but I always wondered where people get the family info for a death cert.. Is it from surviving family members? What if they don't know? aren't clear? are misinformed?

I know if I were to have been the one to give information on (say) my grandmother, I would have been a bit stuck on her parents' names. Until I started to look, of course.

The Aidan/Aden detail would strike me as a very strong connection.

The source of the information on the death cert was his son. So one might think he should know. But the information is wrong, as far as I can tell, one way or another. The Aidan/Aden aspect struck me also, but the Aden turns up on what seems to be a well researched page on "Find a grave memorial" - I don't know what the source of it is.

CassieManson

The Chieftain wrote: »

For years, I have been searching for a missing first cousin of my grandmother's.
He was born in 1865, the rest of family emigrated to US in 1882 onwards, and he was still alive in 1913, when he was mentioned in his mother's obituary. But in between 1865 and the mention in 1913, nothing, and nothing afterwards. Until today. Today I found a candidate. Within a few hours I located him and his family in several US census returns, as well as marriage and death details. Part of the match is great, but there is also a very significant mismatch. What do you folks think?

What matches
Christian name - William
Additional christian name at death: Aden - matches fathers name, see below.
Exact date of birth 8/1/1865
Place of birth - Wexford

What does not match:
US surname spelling is Crane, but this is a common variant of Crean(e), the name that appears in the Wexford records.
Key difference is in parent's names. Names on death cert are William for father, and Collins for mother, whereas birth in wexford are for Aidan for father and Redmond for mother.

As to the parents names, both civil registration and parish records are available. I am reasonably sure that there are no births to parents with the US listed names in Wexford in that timeframe.

So, what to conclude? This is the most confusing case I have yet to encounter where multiple details fit perfectly, yet other key points disagree.

I would say on the balance of probabilities that this is the correct person. Possibly by the time he died his son may not have been very familiar with the Irish side of the family and may have confused his grandparents' names (he probably never met them). If the dates of birth are matching that is a good indicator. You might need a DNA test to confirm.

I came across a similar situation a couple of years ago looking for a cousin of my great-grandmother who emigrated to the US. I only knew the surname of her husband (Foley) so looked up marriage records and found a potential match. The only problem was her Mother's maiden name was given as "Cronin" which I knew was incorrect (it was a completely different name). Through MyHeritage I was able to contact a descendant of this couple, he was also not sure if there was a link. Recently going through some old photos from my Grandparents' house I came across one from the 1960s with the name Foley on it - turned out to the the sister of my contact so that proved the link between the two families.

Long story short - details to not always match. It's great when they do though!

tuisginideach

May be completely wrong - any chance he was adopted/fostered as a child (as would have often happened in those days) but that his mother always 'remembered' him?



While I'm at it .... My father in law was fostered into a family. His birth surname (according to the snippets of information I have) was not the same as the surname of the foster family (lets say this was Smith). However, his children are all Smith, he was buried as Smith and presumably he was married as Smith. My OH has no interest in delving deeper inot the question so I don't feel I can do so officially but I wondered if any of you knew - could he have got married/registered his children's birth/ died and was buried etc on a surname that wasn't officially his i.e. I think it was unlikely that a formal adoption procedure was done so surely officially he was still his birth surname (e.g.Jones) rather than the name of the fosterfamily (Smith)?

pinkypinky

When did your father in law join the foster family? Adoption act is 1952, so from then on, there should legal paperwork.

tuisginideach

He would have been born c1920 so fostered at latest in 1930s but I don't know dates. It was in an area of Dublin where there were lots of fostering going on and very openly but I doubt there was any paperwork.

pinkypinky

Tuisginideach - the HSE maintains a list to do with children in foster care which starts around 1930. Would be worth approaching them to do a Freedom of Information. If your father in law is alive, he'll have to do it himself or give you written permission.

tuisginideach

Thanks - he is dead and buried - I never even met him and it was only when his (foster)sister died - a much loved aunt - that I first heard of the fostering element.

The Chieftain

CassieManson wrote: »

I would say on the balance of probabilities that this is the correct person. Possibly by the time he died his son may not have been very familiar with the Irish side of the family and may have confused his grandparents' names (he probably never met them). If the dates of birth are matching that is a good indicator. You might need a DNA test to confirm.

Well, that is part of the issue. The grandparents were also in Chicago. The grandmother died in 1913, when the grandson was relatively young, but the grandfather lasted until 1920. Of course, Chicago was and is a large city, and they could have been estranged. Overall, this case is very strange - I agree a DNA test might be required to resolve this, but that is challenging, contact wise.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Just showed this to my genealogist mother. Any chance that his mother was widowed and remarried? Might explain the surname?

The Chieftain

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Just showed this to my genealogist mother. Any chance that his mother was widowed and remarried? Might explain the surname?

Thank you for the suggestion, but no, he was still living with original wife in 1930 (per 1930 US census) - unless they had same Christian name.

XxMCRxBabyxX

The Chieftain wrote: »

Thank you for the suggestion, but no, he was still living with original wife in 1930 (per 1930 US census) - unless they had same Christian name.

Sorry I was referring to the cousin's (William) mother whose name is on the certs. Could it be that she married twice? Either before or after he was born so perhaps her maiden name was Collins and other married name was Redmond or vice versa? Probably unlikely but is just a suggestion.

The Chieftain

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Sorry I was referring to the cousin's (William) mother whose name is on the certs. Could it be that she married twice? Either before or after he was born so perhaps her maiden name was Collins and other married name was Redmond or vice versa? Probably unlikely but is just a suggestion.

Ah, I see. Perhaps possible, but her own death cert says she was born Redmond, and she must have married Aidan Crean at an early age, so I think unlikely.