Should Parents Pay teacher's overtime when thier child is in Detention?

gormdubhgorm

I told my father (a retired teacher) about a thread on boards about a posters secondary school teenager who was placed in detention.
This thread title was the result of his response. Well nearly, he actually said that the parents of the detained pupil should be made to pay double!

Initially I thought that this suggestion was laughable.
But the likes of Lucinda Creighton is calling for parents to pay for the legal fees of repeat offenders in the courts.
https://www.newstalk.com/election2016/Creighton-renews-call-for-punishment-of-parents-of-repeat-young-offenders
Taken in this light is it really that far fetched that parents should pay the over-time of teachers who have to do detention because of thier son/daughter?

Teacher's obviously do not currently get paid for supervising detention.
In essence this is the teacher's free time.
Unlike correcting exam papers at home, it can be argued that detention is a "non-teaching" activity for teachers. One which is solely caused by the misbehavior of parents children,

Gatling

It's only fair , if little Johnny or little Mary can't behave themself's why should a teacher have to give them a detention at a cost to their pockets

Conall Cernach

Who decides whether or not a child gets detention? Could be a handy little earner.

kneemos

Do we do detention in Ireland?
Didn't happen in my day.

John_D80

Absolutely ludicrous suggestion. If detention isn't viable as as a deterrent for any reason then it's up to the school's to come up with an alternative.

Teachers would be laughed out of it they tried to do this.

Sheep Lover

No. Teachers are paid enough as it is. Especially considering their extraordinary holiday time.

smash

Gatling wrote: »

It's only fair , if little Johnny or little Mary can't behave themself's why should a teacher have to give them a detention at a cost to their pockets

The bigger question is why give detention at all? Let the parents parent and leave the teachers to teach. If my kid got detention the teacher can go and get fcuked if they think I'm giving up my free time to drive around on extra school runs when I can discipline them myself.

Richard Hillman

Next week on Primetime: Ireland's Detention Racket.......

Fr_Dougal

A lot of the time bad behaviour is a learned behaviour. Parents pay financially, kid pays in the long term. Detention doesn't help anyone.

Kristopherus

Sheep Lover wrote: »

No. Teachers are paid enough as it is. Especially considering their extraordinary holiday time.

Bull**** !!!! Would you put up with what they have to put up with. No, I'm not a teacher.

The Backwards Man

They're all at it but our wans

Gatling

smash wrote: »

The bigger question is why give detention at all? Let the parents parent and leave the teachers to teach. If my kid got detention the teacher can go and get fcuked if they think I'm giving up my free time to drive around on extra school runs when I can discipline them myself.

There's one of the main problems with schools and discipline,
Parents .

Sheep Lover

Kristopherus wrote: »

Bull**** !!!! Would you put up with what they have to put up with. No, I'm not a teacher.

Nobody forced them into the job.

Working from 9 - 4 everyday with more holidays than you could shake a stick at. Hardly a tough gig.

kneemos

Are teachers allowed to be alone with kid?

John_D80

kneemos wrote: »

Are teachers allowed to be alone with kid?

Hmmm not sure where you're going with this but please, go on ............

The Moldy Gowl

kneemos wrote: »

Are teachers allowed to be alone with kid?

Only the sexy ones

kneemos

John_D80 wrote: »

Hmmm not sure where you're going with this but please, go on ............

Well they can't have them in detention,so to speak,if not.

robinph

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Teacher's obviously do not currently get paid for supervising detention.
In essence this is the teacher's free time.
Unlike correcting exam papers at home, it can be argued that detention is a "non-teaching" activity for teachers. One which is solely caused by the misbehavior of parents children,

So you would put the worker in charge of determining if overtime is required? Very handy earner for the teachers that would then become and I'm sure no one would ever consider taking advantage of a system like that.

byhookorbycrook

smash wrote: »

The bigger question is why give detention at all? Let the parents parent and leave the teachers to teach. If my kid got detention the teacher can go and get fcuked if they think I'm giving up my free time to drive around on extra school runs when I can discipline them myself.

And therein lies the issue, parents who don't parent meaning teachers can't teach.

Ave Sodalis

And what if it isn't the parent's fault?

haveringchick

smash wrote: »

The bigger question is why give detention at all? Let the parents parent and leave the teachers to teach. If my kid got detention the teacher can go and get fcuked if they think I'm giving up my free time to drive around on extra school runs when I can discipline them myself.

So your child should be allowed to act like a p***k all day at school disturbing every one else's peace and there should be no discipline??

Chancer3001

The kid should be the parents fault.

Like they are in the courts.

smash

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And therein lies the issue, parents who don't parent meaning teachers can't teach.

That's absolute rubbish. There's a vast array of issues that can cause a child to be disruptive and most of them aren't to do with parenting.

smash

haveringchick wrote: »

So your child should be allowed to act like a p***k all day at school disturbing every one else's peace and there should be no discipline??

No. I didn't say that so stop being dramatic.

Cool_CM

kneemos wrote: »

Are teachers allowed to be alone with kid?

Ah ffs, it's a hard enough and thankless job for anybody to do (especially in the age where a lot of people with little or no skills as parents will go out of their way to drag somebody over hot coals because they can't for one minute imagine that little Johnny is capable of being a dick) without having to deal with that shyte.

Schwiiing

If a student acts up in the classroom, let the teacher punish the other kids aswell. The other 29 will sort out the 1 prick in their own time. Job sorted.

Windorah

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Nobody forced them into the job.

Working from 9 - 4 everyday with more holidays than you could shake a stick at. Hardly a tough gig.

Have you considered a career change? This 9-4 well paid gig sounds great.

riffmongous

What annoyed me the most about the idea of detention was that it was a far more severe punishment for the rural students than the townies who could just walk home whenever they wanted

freedominacup

smash wrote: »

That's absolute rubbish. There's a vast array of issues that can cause a child to be disruptive and most of them aren't to do with parenting.

You're right. There is a vast array of issues that could be causing the problem but in at least 90% of cases it's parents not parenting.

Inspector Coptoor

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Nobody forced them into the job.

Working from 9 - 4 everyday with more holidays than you could shake a stick at. Hardly a tough gig.

And what would you know about it?

9-4 is a myth.

You are simply ill informed and think you know what being a teacher is like because you went to school as a student.

This does not make you an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Ave Sodalis

freedominacup wrote:

You're right. There is a vast array of issues that could be causing the problem but in at least 90% of cases it's parents not parenting.

Ignoring the made up, exaggerated statistic.... should the "10%" still be made pay?

smash

freedominacup wrote: »

You're right. There is a vast array of issues that could be causing the problem but in at least 90% of cases it's parents not parenting.

I don't accept that at all. It's the same train of thought from decades past where parenting has been blamed for behavioural issues. Now things like ADHD can be diagnosed among other disorders. Not to mention bullying and social pressures.

suicide_circus

The detention idea is silly but I'd support cutting free legal aid after three convictions

haveringchick

smash wrote: »

The bigger question is why give detention at all? Let the parents parent and leave the teachers to teach. If my kid got detention the teacher can go and get fcuked if they think I'm giving up my free time to drive around on extra school runs when I can discipline them myself.

Your suggesting here that your kid would not be going to detention so what school discipline is agreeable to you?

wexandproud

would it be paid to the school or directly to the teacher and would it be declared for tax purposes . I also often wondered if teachers do a tax return for payments received for supervising study when the parents pay the school a contribution .. can anyone enlighten me

Sheep Lover

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

And what would you know about it?

9-4 is a myth.

You are simply ill informed and think you know what being a teacher is like because you went to school as a student.

This does not make you an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Could you quote the part where I mentioned to be an "expert"?

So teachers don't work 9-4 (4 being later for most schools)?

What hours do they work?

Lady is a tramp

Ah god ... I'm just thinking of a lad I've gotten to know very well recently. In fact I lived with him for a few weeks. He's 40 years old now, a career criminal, in and out of jail all his life. First jailed at 12 years old for mitching school, entered "juvenile detention" as a result of missing days in school (due to no family to encourage him go there), left juvenile detention at 15/16 a joyrider and heroin addict.

Close to 100 convictions to his name at this stage, mostly robbery to feed his addictions. He overcame his heroin problem in his 20s, and is now in the process of overcoming his alcohol addiction.

He's done some terrible things in his life, but is honestly one of the most decent lovely caring guys I know. I would (and have) trusted him with a lot of things, he is an absolute sweetheart and a gem of a person.

Should his mother have been punished financially when he was in juvenile detention? Who the hell do you think it would have been taken out on? Who suffers at the end of the day? Only the child.

Same goes for detention. Children from a troubled background (like my friend) are more likely to be candidates for detention; making parents pay for teachers' overtime is only going to result in it being taken out on the unfortunate child in the situation, who has enough disadvantages in life to begin with.

History Queen

Sheep Lover wrote: »

No. Teachers are paid enough as it is. Especially considering their extraordinary holiday time.

You realise I am sure that many teachers get paid less than Luas drivers? And have less job security?

Edited to clarify that no I do not think teachers should be paid for detention, I just think that alot of people think that we are much better paid than we actually are.

alchemist33

No.

Nor should I be paid by the teacher when I have to show my children how to correctly use the fada.

Sheep Lover

History Queen wrote: »

You realise I am sure that many teachers get paid less than Luas drivers? And have less job security?

Edited to clarify that no I do not think teachers should be paid for detention, I just think that alot of people think that we are much better paid than we actually are.

Don't feel too special, Luas drivers are paid more than lots of people

History Queen

wexandproud wrote: »

would it be paid to the school or directly to the teacher and would it be declared for tax purposes . I also often wondered if teachers do a tax return for payments received for supervising study when the parents pay the school a contribution .. can anyone enlighten me

In our school anyway supervised study is fully taxed and processed through payroll in the same way as ordinary wages

smash

haveringchick wrote: »

Your suggesting here that your kid would not be going to detention so what school discipline is agreeable to you?

Make the child leave the class to go to a study hall or give them extra homework. There's literally nothing to be gained by detention.

Inspector Coptoor

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Could you quote the part where I mentioned to be an "expert"?

So teachers don't work 9-4 (4 being later for most schools)?

What hours do they work?

By claiming we have a handy number, you're coming across like you are an expert on the subject.

by "work", do you mean time spent in front of a class?
Or work done including planning, photocopying, marking, report writing, ringing parents and coaching?

I teach for 22 hours a week - roughly 4.5 hours a day between 08:35 and 15:35.

However, I'm on site working from 07:30 to 18:00 Monday to Thursday and from 07:00 to 16:15 on a Friday with a 15 min coffee break and a 40 minute lunch break.
Is this a handy number to you? Is it an acceptable level of work?

What would you have us do?

inmy64

Would Sweatshops be out of the question? Or make them fish for diamonds?

youtube.com/watch?v=a

Ave Sodalis

What I've found (purely ancedotal of course) is that the better teachers tend not to need to punish their students to get results. However, the worse teachers rely heavily on punishments such as detention. With the proposed idea, it would mean that the worse teachers are getting paid more than the good teachers. Maybe it's just my old school but it tends to be the same teachers sending kids to detention.

Another interesting thing to note is that, in animal behaviour, positive and negative reinforcement has been cited in as the most effective way to teach in a variety of animals. In fact, this is the ideal way to teach any trainable animal. Punishment is well known to be the least effective method of training and can even be detrimental to their training. Why is it that we are still using punishment as the main way to train children, and not dogs or horses? Why are we trying to encourage this outdated, ineffective training method? I mean, we may be a more intelligent species, but we learn in fundamentally the same way as other animals... yet the people who are supposed to be trained to work with kids are still using (and encouraging) the worst way to teach?

Cool_CM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Could you quote the part where I mentioned to be an "expert"?

So teachers don't work 9-4 (4 being later for most schools)?

What hours do they work?

I'd imagine that you are referring to the amount of time that they are in the school building teaching and not the time that they work?

Everybody knows that all of the class planning, correcting, record keeping, after-school activities and meeting with parents etc. is done by magical gnomes who disappear back into the cupboard beneath the sink shortly before 8am.

smash

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I teach for 22 hours a week - roughly 4.5 hours a day between 08:35 and 15:35.

However, I'm on site working from 07:30 to 18:00 Monday to Thursday and from 07:00 to 16:15 on a Friday with a 15 min coffee break and a 40 minute lunch break.
Is this a handy number to you? Is it an acceptable level of work?

What would you have us do?

I

So why exactly are you there for 10.5 hours a day then?

Sheep Lover

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

By claiming we have a handy number, you're coming across like you are an expert on the subject.

by "work", do you mean time spent in front of a class?
Or work done including planning, photocopying, marking, report writing, ringing parents and coaching?

I teach for 22 hours a week - roughly 4.5 hours a day between 08:35 and 15:35.

However, I'm on site working from 07:30 to 18:00 Monday to Thursday and from 07:00 to 16:15 on a Friday with a 15 min coffee break and a 40 minute lunch break.
Is this a handy number to you? Is it an acceptable level of work?

What would you have us do?

I

I'm a teacher and neither myself or my colleagues would spend this amount of time in school. You must be doing something wrong.

Sheep Lover

Cool_CM wrote: »

I'd imagine that you are referring to the amount of time that they are in the school building teaching and not the time that they work?

Everybody knows that all of the class planning, correcting, record keeping, after-school activities and meeting with parents etc. is done by magical gnomes who disappear back into the cupboard beneath the sink shortly before 8am.

Planning - There's a set curriculum which is taught the same year after year...

After school activities - Usually done on own merit, fair play if you do but you don't have to.

Meeting with parents - Done once a year and usually done on school time...

Inspector Coptoor

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I'm a teacher and neither myself or my colleagues would spend this amount of time in school. You must be doing something wrong.

Or doing something right.
Doing the job the way it's meant to be done, and not just clocking in the bare minimum number of hours.

smash

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Or doing something right.
Doing the job the way it's meant to be done, and not just clocking in the bare minimum number of hours.

No, you're definitely doing something wrong when 4.5 hours work takes you 10.5 hours.