Avensis or Passat petrol models

mickof

Hi,

Going to buy a second hand car roughly 2011/2012 either Toyota Avensis 1.6 or Wolkswagen Passat 1.4 in a petrol model. Any advice ? Reason for petrol is I do very little milage and I heard that's not good for diesel models. Both cars are roughly same price.

Thanks

colm_mcm

The avensis is not as complicated mechanically, not having a turbocharger.
The Passat will feel nicer though and is more torquey. The Avensis isn't bad for a 1.6, think it's 128bhp
Safe bet is the Avensis. If it was my mother asking, I'd say get the Avensis.
Strata spec in the Avensis is the one to go for.

Stallingrad

I have a 2011 Passat 1.4 and it is a very nice car, feels very refined in a way the Avensis can't match. Your only problem will be finding one, rare enough. Go for Comfortline or Highline, Trendline is very basic.

mickof

Yes I can find a comfort line and strata for Avensis. Is the 1.4 Passat a big enough engine for such a big car.? That's why I was thinking 1.6 avensis ? Both have about 40K miles only

Thanks

Stallingrad

It has fair bit of go when asked, and is refined doing it. One passenger asked me if the car was electric is was so quiet at idle. If you tow or travel 4 up you will need to plan your overtakes but 90% of the time it is fine. Economy is 7l per 100. It is light years ahead of the VW 1.6 it replaced.

colm_mcm

mickof wrote: »

Yes I can find a comfort line and strata for Avensis. Is the 1.4 Passat a big enough engine for such a big car.? That's why I was thinking 1.6 avensis ? Both have about 40K miles only

Thanks

To put this into context. The 1.4 Passat has 122bhp.
A 03-09 Avensis 1.6 has 115
A Passat 1.6 05 onwards has 115
A Passat up to 05 has 100

The addition of a turbo gives it a bit of mid-range shove that you just can't get in a similarly sized non turbo car.

cruais

I have a 1.4 TSI passat and have no problems with it at all driving wise. Its a great car, one of the best ive purchased.

I had the same reservations as yourself in regards to the engine and such a large car, but to be honest, (not that i speed) if you want to leave someone behind, you will have no problem in doing so.

The only downside for me is the bloody tax. Even tho it is a 1.4 because it is turbo its classed at the higher rate into a 1.8. It works out at €161 for 3 months. Mine is a 2008.

colm_mcm

The reason that the tax is higher is because the co2 emissions are higher than, say, a diesel version, and the car is taxed on emissions.
If the car had been first registered before July 2008, it would have been taxed on engine size (1.4), which would have been cheaper,

mickof

Thanks for the info-
Good information so far- I still can't make my mind up though......
Passat looks nicer but Avensis is bigger

mickof

Is 1.4 not €190 on tax a year ?

Stallingrad

mickof wrote: »

Thanks for the info-
Good information so far- I still can't make my mind up though......
Passat looks nicer but Avensis is bigger

You sure, the Passat is huge inside and has massive boot.

colm_mcm

mickof wrote: »

Is 1.4 not €190 on tax a year ?

no. on the old cc system pre mid 08 it's around 350 and from mid 08 onwards the engine size has no bearing on the tax. it's based on the co2 emissions only.

you can check the tax rate of any Irish car on www.motortax.ie.

the emissions tax change of 08 had winners and losers. the passat 1.4 was one of the losers where the tax went up.


size wise there's nothing between the cars.

mickof

Sorry tax is 280 on Passat 1.4 which isn't bad, I guess I'll just test drive both and see

run_Forrest_run

mickof wrote: »

Sorry tax is 280 on Passat 1.4 which isn't bad, I guess I'll just test drive both and see

I've just used the motortax.ie site and picked a 2011 1.4 TSI 122Bhp from random on carzone and it's telling me the cost for a year is €570.

EDIT: Ah OK, I've picked another random one, this time a 2012 automatic 1.4 TSO 122Bhp and it's saying €280. Does it being automatic mean less emissions?

EDIT: Nope, I've picked a third car, manual, 2011 and it's saying €280. I'm confused.

grogi

mickof wrote: »

Hi,

Going to buy a second hand car roughly 2011/2012 either Toyota Avensis 1.6 or Wolkswagen Passat 1.4 in a petrol model. Any advice ? Reason for petrol is I do very little milage and I heard that's not good for diesel models. Both cars are roughly same price.

Thanks

Avensis would be simpler - thus cheaper to run. But the quality of the interior of a Passat would be much nicer.

1.4 TSi, especially those with the timing chain, are not the best bet. The chain stretches (what those german companies have with those chains?!)... Has the turbo and some versions a compressor.

All TSi engines are direct injections: because the petrol is injected directly to the chamber, it does go through the intake valves and does not clean them, with time they get blocked. It is not unusual to see up significant power loss because the air cannot get into the cylinders.

Stallingrad

grogi wrote: »

Avensis would be simpler - thus cheaper to run. But the quality of the interior of a Passat would be much nicer.

1.4 TSi, especially those with the timing chain, are not the best bet. The chain stretches (what those german companies have with those chains?!)... Has the turbo and some versions a compressor.

All TSi engines are direct injections: because the petrol is injected directly to the chamber, it does go through the intake valves and does not clean them, with time they get blocked. It is not unusual to see up significant power loss because the air cannot get into the cylinders.
/QUOTE]

No Irish Passat got the turbo/compressor engine, they are all the 122bhp Turbo only engine. As such they are far less prone to chain stretch as the turbo/compressor engines were. Not unheard off, just much less likely. Look for FSH and oil changes on time.

As for your last point, I've never heard of that before, do you have a link?

grogi

Stallingrad wrote: »

As for your last point, I've never heard of that before, do you have a link?

I know reliable sources in Polish, with results from Dyno etc.. It is not unique to TSi, all direct injection engines suffer from it...

A quick google showed this for instance: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread

Stallingrad

grogi wrote: »

I know reliable sources in Polish, with results from Dyno etc.. It is not unique to TSi, all direct injection engines suffer from it...

A quick google showed this for instance: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread

That thread is about the Fsi engine, not the Tsi.

grogi

Stallingrad wrote: »

That thread is about the Fsi engine, not the Tsi.

http://bfy.tw/4K9C

mickof

whats the difference between Fsi engine and the Tsi engine ? i'l guess one petrol and one diesel ?

bazz26

mickof wrote: »

whats the difference between Fsi engine and the Tsi engine ? i'l guess one petrol and one diesel ?

No they are both petrol. The most obvious difference is that the FSi engines have no turbo while the TSi engines do. I think the TSi have other wizardry also.

colm_mcm

The FSI is a common rail direct injection petrol. Basically the fuel is injected at a much higher pressure than a traditional petrol engine, which can are it more powerful and economical.

Stallingrad

colm_mcm wrote: »

The FSI is a common rail direct injection petrol. Basically the fuel is injected at a much higher pressure than a traditional petrol engine, which can are it more powerful and economical.

Usually more noisy and less economical, they were a poor engine.

mickof

1.4 TSI petrol engine has tax of €570 for a 2009 model- bit pricey though

bazz26

mickof wrote: »

1.4 TSI petrol engine has tax of €570 for a 2009 model- bit pricey though

It's all relative though, pay more to buy a younger car with lower tax.

colm_mcm

Is there a newer cheap tax Passat model?

bazz26

Early 2010 I think the 1.4 TSi emissions were lowered for motor tax of €390. Down to €280 with the B7 reskin.

colm_mcm

Did anyone buy them I wonder?

colm_mcm

2007
Petrol 2275. Diesel 4901

2008
Petrol 1575 diesel 3178

2009
Petrol 341 vs 1496 diesel

Saloon,
2010 104, 66 of those were band b
1652 diesels regged though. So not a lot of low tax 2010 petrols out there.

2011, 101 regged, vs 2874 diesels

2012 55 petrol, 2088 diesel

2013, 5 petrol vs 1777 diesel

2014 all diesel

2015 53 petrol vs 3112 diesel

2916 55 petrol vs 721 petrol (January only)

bazz26

I'd say there was a gap around 2009/2010 where they sold very little, when the B7 came out they sold a few but as you know petrol in that class of car fell by the wayside as soon as the tax system changed to favour diesel.

bazz26

Carzone have 7 listed from 2010 including the crazy dealers who ordered in these B8:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Passat/Highline-1.4TSI/200914460482559730/

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Passat/COMFORTLINE-1.4TSI/200814454084059400/

mickof

What are the B8 and B6 models I see ?

bazz26

It's the model designation of each generation of Passat:

B6 - 2005 to 2010
B7 - 2010 to 2014
B8 - 2015 onwards.

mickof

Thanks

PukkaStukka

Out of curiosity, I've read very favourable reviews about the Avensis 1.8 valvematic and am wondering if you've considered this car OP? It's supposed to be very good and pretty close to diesel levels of mpg without the complexity of an oil burner.

bazz26

There are probably less petrol MkIII Avensis around than petrol Passats. Would be a safer bet though if you can find one.

colm_mcm

1.8 are super rare.

PukkaStukka

colm_mcm wrote: »

1.8 are super rare.

The reviews were all on UK web site so that that explains that

colm_mcm

mpg review no doubt inspired by the pointers Toyota gave them about their revolutionary new engine.
it's no diesel rival anyway.

PukkaStukka

colm_mcm wrote: »

mpg review no doubt inspired by the pointers Toyota gave them about their revolutionary new engine.
it's no diesel rival anyway.

Agreed I t's not an out and out match for a diesel but someone looking at purchasing for the longer term would be tempted by the the fact that there are no horrifically expensive bits to break like those on a diesel. A big car like that yielding mid 40's is an attractive proposition.

mickof

Change of mind --- Passat petrol engines are rare and they stopped making them for a couple of years 2012/2016 I think.
Originally wanted a petrol as did low milage about 6/7000 miles a year-
I am now thinking a 1.6 Passat diesel in which case there is loads around to buy.
Any thoughts on this ? Read somewhere b4 about filter problems if they don't get a good spin every so often, any truth in it? My driving is generally short distances here and there
Thanks

colm_mcm

you would be crazy to do that.

mickof

Why do you say that ?

colm_mcm

your driving is totally unsuited to a modern diesel

mickof

Fair enough

Subotai

I was in the same position as the OP recently. I needed to get a bigger car for the kids, but my mileage is really low. I traded in a Mazda 3 diesel, and got a 2012 1.6L petrol Avensis. It took ages to find one, as the petrol versions are so rare. It's slightly underpowered, I notice it when i join a motorway for example, but apart from that it's fine. Huge boot and lots of space in the back. So i'm happy with it.

mickof

I'm guessing about 15,000 ? they all seem expensive probably as they are so rare ? I've my heart set on a Passat now

Stallingrad

Low milage CL with DSG, nice.

http://www.sinnottautos.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Passat/COMFORT-TSI/201114442290177670/

mickof

Does Passat 1.4 petrol have timing belt or chain - I'm finding mixed answers ?
Thanks

bazz26

What year Passat?

mickof

2010?