Only 46 out of 3,200 primary schools are oversubscribed.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:14pm #1

Politicians and the media would have you think one in 5 schools are oversubscribed and a mythical priority given to Catholic children is forcing non Catholic or non religious parents to baptize their children to get a school place.

Now we know this is pure undiluted nonsense.

Figures released by the Irish Catholic newspaper show that only 1.6% or 46 primary schools are over subscribed. The Catholic church are patrons of 2,900 schools.

One of the main causes of claims of oversubscriptipn is when parents try numerous schools to enrol their children and when 4 year olds are refused a place but are given a space next year when they are 5.

MilesMorales1 · 14-02-2016 5:17pm

So many links and not enough hearsay. Good topic OP, no bias or bitterness at all.

17larsson · 14-02-2016 5:17pm

So because there are only a few, those schools that are over subscribed should be allowed to reject non catholics?

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:20pm

17larsson wrote: »

So because there are only a few, those schools that are over subscribed should be allowed to reject non catholics?

There are no schools rejecting anyone on religious grounds. This simply isn't happening.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:22pm

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

So many links and not enough hearsay. Good topic OP, no bias or bitterness at all.

I just quoted you the figures which show only a tiny minority of schools are oversubscribed.

If you don't like facts that's your issue.

Sheep Lover · 14-02-2016 5:24pm

The CC paid/pays for CC schools. Shockingly enough they give priority to Catholic children ...

ahnowbrowncow · 14-02-2016 5:26pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

The CC paid/pays for CC schools. Shockingly enough they give priority to Catholic children ...

They do? How much?

One eyed Jack · 14-02-2016 5:27pm

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

So many links and not enough hearsay. Good topic OP, no bias or bitterness at all.

It didn't take too long to find the article referred to in the OP:

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/revealed-only-46-catholic-schools-oversubscribed

17larsson · 14-02-2016 5:27pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There are no schools rejecting anyone on religious grounds. This simply isn't happening.

If a non baptised child applies for one of those over subscribed primary schools but thirty baptised children apply also, who misses out?

17larsson · 14-02-2016 5:28pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

The CC paid/pays for CC schools. Shockingly enough they give priority to Catholic children ...

Last time I checked primary schools were state funded

Xeyn · 14-02-2016 5:28pm

Non catholic tax money pays for said schools. It's ridiculous o suggest it fair to prioritise Catholics over non Catholics/unbaptised children.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:28pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

The CC paid/pays for CC schools. Shockingly enough they give priority to Catholic children ...

CC schools take in children of all faiths and the figures show only 46 out of a total of all primary schools are over subscribed.

Ergo there is no problem.

Except among bigots who want to lie about 20% oversubscription and use this lie to advance a bigoted agenda.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:30pm

Xeyn wrote: »

Non catholic tax money pays for said schools. It's ridiculous o suggest it fair to prioritise Catholics over non Catholics/unbaptised children.

Where is the prioritization? There is no oversubscription problem.

Nodin · 14-02-2016 5:30pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

CC schools take in children of all faiths and the figures show only 46 out of a total of all primary schools are over subscribed.

Ergo there is no problem.

Except among bigots who want to lie about 20% oversubscription and use this lie to advance a bigoted agenda.

An agenda, you say? Well its a good thing you, Joseph"agenda free" ryan1989 are here to see them off.

Sheep Lover · 14-02-2016 5:31pm

Xeyn wrote: »

Non catholic tax money pays for said schools. It's ridiculous o suggest it fair to prioritise Catholics over non Catholics/unbaptised children.

Well if it's a Catholic school, Catholics should get priority.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:35pm

17larsson wrote: »

If a non baptised child applies for one of those over subscribed primary schools but thirty baptised children apply also, who misses out?

If you bothered to read my OP you would already know that "oversubscription" is primarily caused by parents looking to admit 4 year olds who would be admitted the following year without a problem plus parents panicking and trying to enrol their child in multiple schools.

The mythical 20% oversubscription "crisis" we are forever hearing about does not in fact exist.

It is taken as gospel by anti-Catholic fanatics and bigots who are inventing a problem where none actually exists.

17larsson · 14-02-2016 5:35pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Where is the prioritization? There is no oversubscription problem.

According to your figures there are 46 schools with over subscription problems.
What happens the non baptised children who live beside these state funded schools? It's not a problem because it's only a few people and sure who cares about those kids?

P. Breathnach · 14-02-2016 5:38pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Well if it's a Catholic school, Catholics should get priority.

If they want to operate on that basis, perhaps they should opt out of the state funding arrangement.

Gatling · 14-02-2016 5:39pm

I certainly wouldn't take a church papers word for it ,
Rather see the department of education figures on the subject

kal7 · 14-02-2016 5:39pm

I personally know off three children who did not get into an oversubscribed catholic school, on basis of religion, so it does happen.

PopePalpatine · 14-02-2016 5:40pm

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Well if it's a Catholic school, Catholics should get priority.

So, should we extend this reasoning to the health service too?

MilesMorales1 · 14-02-2016 5:40pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I just quoted you the figures which show only a tiny minority of schools are oversubscribed.

If you don't like facts that's your issue.

You have zero links or sources for anything. You are essentially talking ****.

17larsson · 14-02-2016 5:41pm

kal7 wrote: »

I personally know off three children who did not get into an oversubscribed catholic school, on basis of religion, so it does happen.

Yeah but it's only a few people so who cares. No problem here

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:44pm

Nodin wrote: »

An agenda, you say? Well its a good thing you, Joseph"agenda free" ryan1989 are here to see them off.

A 20% figure is quoted in the media and by politicians which is utterly bogus as as been proven by the Irish Catholic which shows the real oversubscription rate is in fact 1.6%.

So the claim is demonstrably wrong and one could say malicious and bigoted advanced by anti-Catholic bigots and fanatics.

No doubt they will continue with their sinister agenda and repeat their lie in the face of the facts.

No child has been refused a school place in Ireland on religious grounds and they know it.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:46pm

kal7 wrote: »

I personally know off three children who did not get into an oversubscribed catholic school, on basis of religion, so it does happen.

Who? What school? Apart from your claim what other evidence do you have? Prove it.

PopePalpatine · 14-02-2016 5:47pm

Secularists are now "anti-Catholic bigots" for wanting to remove the Church's iron grip on this country. By your logic the likes of Martin Luther King Jr, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela etc. hated white people too. :rolleyes:

anothernight · 14-02-2016 5:48pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A 20% figure is quoted in the media and by politicians which is utterly bogus as as been proven by the Irish Catholic which shows the real oversubscription rate is in fact 1.6%.

So the claim is demonstrably wrong and one could say malicious and bigoted advanced by anti-Catholic bigots and fanatics.

No doubt they will continue with their sinister agenda and repeat their lie in the face of the facts.

No child has been refused a school place in Ireland on religious grounds and they know it.

As far as I know, the 20% comes from this report: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/Report-on-Schools-Admissions-Bill.pdf

Report on the Draft General Scheme of an Education (Admission to Schools) Bill 2013 wrote:

It should be noted that a study published in 2009 found that 80% of surveyed schools enrolled all children who presented, while 20% used selection criteria.6 The corollary to this is that 20% of schools are over-subscribed.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't take a church papers word for it ,
Rather see the department of education figures on the subject

So you don't believe facts because you have a problem with the source? The facts are the facts irrespective of the source. The way you simply dismiss the facts out of hand speaks volumes. You don't want to give up the 20% myth?

PopePalpatine · 14-02-2016 5:51pm

anothernight wrote: »

As far as I know, the 20% comes from this report: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/Report-on-Schools-Admissions-Bill.pdf

Ah here, you'll offend the ultramontanists with your "facts". :pac:

17larsson · 14-02-2016 5:51pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

A 20% figure is quoted in the media and by politicians which is utterly bogus as as been proven by the Irish Catholic which shows the real oversubscription rate is in fact 1.6%.

So the claim is demonstrably wrong and one could say malicious and bigoted advanced by anti-Catholic bigots and fanatics.

No doubt they will continue with their sinister agenda and repeat their lie in the face of the facts.

No child has been refused a school place in Ireland on religious grounds and they know it.

Do you even read your own posts?

If those figures are correct what happens to those kids who still have Eve's original sin of eating that apple after listening to the talking snake? Are they or are they not refused before baptised kids? I know the answer and even if it is just 1.6% of schools it doesn't make it any less unjust

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:52pm

anothernight wrote: »

As far as I know, the 20% comes from this report: http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/Report-on-Schools-Admissions-Bill.pdf

These figures have just been blown out of the water by the Irish Catholic.
I will repeat because clearly you can't face facts. Only 46 out of all the primary schools surveyed are over subscribed.

Gatling · 14-02-2016 5:52pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

So you don't believe facts because you have a problem with the source? The facts are the facts irrespective of the source.

Nonsense

Rachiee · 14-02-2016 5:52pm

A newspaper is not a primary source where did the newspaper get it's figure from ? Just because a new paper says it doesn't mean it's true.

Eutow · 14-02-2016 5:54pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Who? What school? Apart from your claim what other evidence do you have? I prove it.

No, you haven't. Back to confession for you.

anothernight · 14-02-2016 5:55pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

These figures have just been blown out of the water by the Irish Catholic.
I will repeat because clearly you can't face facts. Only 46 out of all the primary schools surveyed are over subscribed.

So you're rejecting a study done by ESRI in favour of an article in a biased newspaper which cites no sources whatsoever? They don't even say how they conducted their study! It takes a lot of faith to believe them tbh.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 5:57pm

17larsson wrote: »

Do you even read your own posts?

If those figures are correct what happens to those kids who still have Eve's original sin of eating that apple after listening to the talking snake? Are they or are they not refused before baptised kids? I know the answer and even if it is just 1.6% of schools it doesn't make it any less unjust

As I said in the OP the oversubscription is due to parents enrolling their children in multiple schools and parents trying to enrol 4 year olds who are admitted the next year.

Nothing to do with religion.

So the whole mythology of non Catholic children not being admitted is bogus nonsense.

Hysterical anti-Catholic bigots have been pushing this 20% oversubscription and refusal of non-Catholic children codology.

The report I quoted in the Irish Catholic blows their agenda out of the water.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 6:00pm

anothernight wrote: »

So you're rejecting a study done by ESRI in favour of an article in a biased newspaper which cites no sources whatsoever? They don't even say how they conducted their study! It takes a lot of faith to believe them tbh.

No sources whatsoever? If you actually read the research by the Irish Catholic you can see their sources.

PopePalpatine · 14-02-2016 6:00pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

As I said in the OP the oversubscription is due to parents enrolling their children in multiple schools and parents trying to enrol 4 year olds who are admitted the next year.

Nothing to do with religion.

So the whole mythology of non Catholic children not being admitted is bogus nonsense.

Hysterical anti-Catholic bigots have been pushing this 20% oversubscription and refusal of non-Catholic children codology.

The report I quoted in the Irish Catholic blows their agenda out of the water.

It really is pathetic watching the Catholic (Far-)Right claim victimhood because their privilege is getting chipped away.

anothernight · 14-02-2016 6:01pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Hysterical anti-Catholic bigots have been pushing this 20% oversubscription and refusal of non-Catholic children codology.

The report I quoted in the Irish Catholic blows their agenda out of the water.

The Economic and Social Research Institute is not hysterical, not anti-Catholic and not bigoted.

A newspaper article is not a report. Hell, you didn't even quote it or link to it, leaving it up to other people to find it online!

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 6:02pm

Eutow wrote: »

No, you haven't. Back to confession for you.

I am not a Catholic.

I support the secularization of education but I am opposed to lies and anti-Catholic bigotry.

Victor · 14-02-2016 6:02pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Only 46 out of 3,200 primary schools are oversubscribed.

The Irish Catholic wrote:

only 46 Catholic schools oversubscribed

How many non-Roman Catholic schools are oversubscribed?

Lies, damn lies and misquoting sectarian newspapers.

anothernight · 14-02-2016 6:03pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

No sources whatsoever? If you actually read the research by the Irish Catholic you can see their sources.

The Irish Catholic article wrote:

research conducted by this newspaper nationally has shown the figure to be less than 2%.

Source.

lol

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 6:04pm

anothernight wrote: »

The Economic and Social Research Institute is not hysterical, not anti-Catholic and not bigoted.

A newspaper article is not a report. Hell, you didn't even quote it or link to it, leaving it up to other people to find it online!

I assumed you knew how to use a search engine.

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 6:05pm

anothernight wrote: »

Source.

lol

And what's the problem?

You don't like the facts because you don't like the source?

anothernight · 14-02-2016 6:10pm

josephryan1989 wrote: »

And what's the problem?

What, beyond the fact that they don't give a methodology, their results aren't confirmed by anyone else, they couldn't be more biased and that there's zero transparency in this "study"?

Out of curiosity, why do you reject the ESRI's findings but accept the pro-Catholic findings of a Catholic newspaper?

Actually, don't answer that. I couldn't care less and I'm bored of this thread.

EDIT: Here, I'm making it easy for you so you don't make the same mistake again: http://www.wikihow.com/Evaluate-the-Credibility-of-a-Source

And with that, I'm out.

The Randy Riverbeast · 14-02-2016 6:10pm

In other news Saudi Arabia led human rights committee has come out and said human rights in the kingdom are actually pretty good.

Eutow · 14-02-2016 6:12pm

[QUOTE=josephryan1

989;98728352]I assumed you knew how to use a search engine.[/QUOTE]

You should provide the source as you are the one stating "facts".

josephryan1989 · 14-02-2016 6:18pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

It really is pathetic watching the Catholic (Far-)Right claim victimhood because their privilege is getting chipped away.

I am not a Catholic.

The facts show that only 46 or 1.6% of schools are over subscribed.

Facts exist independently of ideology and wishful thinking.

Anti-Catholic bigots have been claiming that 1 in 5 schools are over subscribed but the research shows this is demonstrably untrue.

The hostility of the posts and in particular the hysterical anti-Catholicism clearly proves the point I made in the OP.

Liars and bigots hate being shown up and instead of digesting the facts and changing their opinion simply screech all the louder.

Gatling · 14-02-2016 6:18pm

According to a survey conducted by the fortean times .

99% of people believe Elvis Presley is still alive .

In another survey conducted by the same outlet

90% of people have had Alien probes .

All facts according to the source

The Sun King · 14-02-2016 6:20pm

OP, the SKIJ* reports figures up to 70% of all schools being oversubscribed.

*this report was carried out today, just now in fact, by the Sun King's Imaginary Journal.

The_Valeyard · 14-02-2016 6:20pm

Ivan Yates/ the guy on rte radio 1 (not sure which) was talking about this on Friday morning.

They didn't seem to question the figures and there guests both appeared to agree that either way, the over subscription was in 'bulge areas'

This whole area is a minefield. People will claim discrimination no matter what, when there child does not get a place. I.e. religion, siblings already in school, not from particular area, not happy with local school. Etc.

Only 46 out of 3,200 primary schools are oversubscribed.

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