Fertilizer question

farawaygrass

A lot of my fields are low in p and k. Most are 1 and 2 for p and 2 and 3 for k. I went with nearly all 10-10-20 last year to build it up, but was kinda never to far in front with grass last spring and summer. I suppose I didn't put out much fertilizer in the grand scheme of things which probably was another reason, but money was tight enough.
I plan to spread on ground (2/3's of the farm) that was grazed with sheep all winter, in the next week if the weather stays up. From reading here and the paper, a lot recommend going with 1/2 a bag of urea now.
So my question is, should I bother going with urea seen the p and k are so low? If I do go with urea now, will I just stick with compounds for the rest of the year?
Or should I go with compound now, like 18-6-12 instead to try build up?
Thanks

freedominacup

farawaygrass wrote: »

A lot of my fields are low in p and k. Most are 1 and 2 for p and 2 and 3 for k. I went with nearly all 10-10-20 last year to build it up, but was kinda never to far in front with grass last spring and summer. I suppose I didn't put out much fertilizer in the grand scheme of things which probably was another reason, but money was tight enough.
I plan to spread on ground (2/3's of the farm) that was grazed with sheep all winter, in the next week if the weather stays up. From reading here and the paper, a lot recommend going with 1/2 a bag of urea now.
So my question is, should I bother going with urea seen the p and k are so low? If I do go with urea now, will I just stick with compounds for the rest of the year?
Or should I go with compound now, like 18-6-12 instead to try build up?
Thanks

How much p&k did you use?

farawaygrass

freedominacup wrote: »

How much p&k did you use?

In total, over 90 acres, I put out 6.5 ton of 101020, 3ton of 18-6-12 and 600kg of 26-2 1/2- 5.
Also put of 50,000gal watery slurry and cover a field with the lowest p and k with a good coating of dung from sheep sheds and calving sheds.
I was just checking diary there and went with first bit of 10-10-20 a year ago yesterday.
Im sure I'm well below what I should put out.

epfff

farawaygrass wrote: »

In total, over 90 acres, I put out 6.5 ton of 101020, 3ton of 18-6-12 and 600kg of 26-2 1/2- 5.
Also put of 50,000gal watery slurry and cover a field with the lowest p and k with a good coating of dung from sheep sheds and calving sheds.
I was just checking diary there and went with first bit of 10-10-20 a year ago yesterday.
Im sure I'm well below what I should put out.

I'd go with a urea based compound and look for pig slurry

farawaygrass

epfff wrote: »

I'd go with a urea based compound and look for pig slurry[/quote
Didn't know you can get a urea based compound.
No piggeries around here so that's not an option at all

frazzledhome

farawaygrass wrote: »

A lot of my fields are low in p and k. Most are 1 and 2 for p and 2 and 3 for k. I went with nearly all 10-10-20 last year to build it up, but was kinda never to far in front with grass last spring and summer. I suppose I didn't put out much fertilizer in the grand scheme of things which probably was another reason, but money was tight enough.
I plan to spread on ground (2/3's of the farm) that was grazed with sheep all winter, in the next week if the weather stays up. From reading here and the paper, a lot recommend going with 1/2 a bag of urea now.
So my question is, should I bother going with urea seen the p and k are so low? If I do go with urea now, will I just stick with compounds for the rest of the year?
Or should I go with compound now, like 18-6-12 instead to try build up?
Thanks

If it was me I'd be going with 18/6/12 now.

Last yr you spread a total of 41N 18P 37K. I've no idea what amount of stock you have but you've said that grass never really got going.

I'd recommend 2* 18/6/12 now. The earlier you get out the P&K the better. Urea isn't for you at all as index too low.

I'd use again at next round and continue as required.

darragh_haven

The one thing I'd ask is, what's your ph? Lime is the cheapest "fertiliser " available. Saw a massive response here after the whole farm was topped up with 1 to 2 ton/acre (depending on soil test results )

farawaygrass

darragh_haven wrote: »

The one thing I'd ask is, what's your ph? Lime is the cheapest "fertiliser " available. Saw a massive response here after the whole farm was topped up with 1 to 2 ton/acre (depending on soil test results )

Thanks for great reply. Think I'll do that alright. Do you mean 2 bags an acre is it?
Ph is actually good, most 6.3. Couple of 6.1 and one lower wet field but on a whole it's bang on.
Did you go with ground or granular lime?

TUBBY

farawaygrass wrote: »

Thanks for great reply. Think I'll do that alright. Do you mean 2 bags an acre is it?
Ph is actually good, most 6.3. Couple of 6.1 and one lower wet field but on a whole it's bang on.
Did you go with ground or granular lime?

If your ph is 6.3 you don't need lime. I would go with a few ton of murate of potash. It is 50% K and I found it great when I was low in k. Along with that I would use Goulding 18.6.12 with the additives. You can be sure you are low in trace metals and particularly S if you that low in p and k.
You will see a great response from S in fertiliser.
Like someone said, if you could get pig slurry it would crown you.

frazzledhome

I wouldn't consider MoP on index 3 for K. It will lead to souring of grass and possible Tetney issues.

You could however use 16% super for real low P ground as this seems to be the lowest area. I'd try not to complicate things.

On the line you're only adequate and should be aiming for 6.5 on normal soils. 2 tonne of ground lime would and only cost <€2k for whole farm

Keep it simple

farawaygrass

TUBBY wrote: »

If your ph is 6.3 you don't need lime. I would go with a few ton of murate of potash. It is 50% K and I found it great when I was low in k. Along with that I would use Goulding 18.6.12 with the additives. You can be sure you are low in trace metals and particularly S if you that low in p and k.
You will see a great response from S in fertiliser.
Like someone said, if you could get pig slurry it would crown you.

No, not a pig farm within miles from me, not sure if there is any even in my county, galway.
I had one field was wouldn't grow a leaf of grass and two years ago it got a lot of muriate of potash, along with 18-6-12 I think and dung and it made a super difference alright.
I find it very hard to get p up, and to go with 16% superphosphate is very dear. Thst why I was going with 10-10-20 last year. The two are nearly the same price.
Right now I think I'll take yer advice and go with 18-6-12 s.
Bag to the acre?
Edit: it was 16% super it got, not muriate of potash. My mistake. It made a massive difference though

farawaygrass

frazzledhome wrote: »

I wouldn't consider MoP on index 3 for K. It will lead to souring of grass and possible Tetney issues.

You could however use 16% super for real low P ground as this seems to be the lowest area. I'd try not to complicate things.

On the line you're only adequate and should be aiming for 6.5 on normal soils. 2 tonne of ground lime would and only cost <€2k for whole farm

Keep it simple

Thanks. As I was saying in last post the difference between 16% super and 10-10-10-20 isn't that much and that's why I was going with the 10-10-20.
If I put out the line like you're saying, would that keep it right for a few years then?

frazzledhome

farawaygrass wrote: »

Thanks. As I was saying in last post the difference between 16% super and 10-10-10-20 isn't that much and that's why I was going with the 10-10-20.
If I put out the line like you're saying, would that keep it right for a few years then?

Lime will reduce slowest of all. A field without lime is like a building built on clay, might be ok

White Clover

farawaygrass wrote: »

Thanks. As I was saying in last post the difference between 16% super and 10-10-10-20 isn't that much and that's why I was going with the 10-10-20.
If I put out the line like you're saying, would that keep it right for a few years then?

Ph and p are very closely linked. I'd put money on that if you raise you're ph, the p will rise a bit too. The p is most likely locked up in the soil and unavailable to the grass. The lime will release this p.

freedominacup

frazzledhome wrote: »

Lime will reduce slowest of all. A field without lime is like a building built on clay, might be ok

Every bag of CAN you spread will use a bag of lime. So if you were to start spreading 100units per acre per year of N you'd use a time of lime every four to five years.

farawaygrass

Thanks for all your help guys. I've put on the order now anyhow, going with 18-6-12. They would have to order it in with sulphur so didn't bother.
Would a bag to the acre be alright so this time around?
Will try get lime out in some of the land later on. Hard to have money for it all, and even harder to have the money if it's just taking from farm money.

Longford Leader

If i can add to the discussion.

I done a soil test on the silage ground (approx 20 acres).

There is only one cut done each year with no slurry applied beforehand.

My father would only spread 3 bags 18-6-12 each year.

I will get it grazed tight before closing it in mid April.

My pH is 5.70 with an index 2 for p & K

I will spread 1T lime/acre this year (land is in a high Mo area)

I need 100 units N, 24 units P and 120 units K.

What is the most cost effective way to meet the requirements?

I was thinking of 4 bags 18-6-12 and 1 bag Muriate of Potash.

Would appreciate any advice.

White Clover

Longford Leader wrote: »

If i can add to the discussion.

I done a soil test on the silage ground (approx 20 acres).

There is only one cut done each year with no slurry applied beforehand.

My father would only spread 3 bags 18-6-12 each year.


I will get it grazed tight before closing it in mid April.

My pH is 5.70 with an index 2 for p & K

I will spread 1T lime/acre this year (land is in a high Mo area)

I need 100 units N, 24 units P and 120 units K.

What is the most cost effective way to meet the requirements?

I was thinking of 4 bags 18-6-12 and 1 bag Muriate of Potash.

Would appreciate any advice.

At that ph, only about 80% of the p that you spread will be available to the grass.
What I would spread is 4 x 0 7 30 and follow with 3 x can. Cut after 6 weeks.
Get the lime out as soon as you can give it 1.5T per acre
I'd use 18 6 12 for aftergrass

frazzledhome

White Clover wrote: »

At that ph, only about 80% of the p that you spread will be available to the grass.
What I would spread is 4 x 0 7 30 and follow with 3 x can. Cut after 6 weeks.
Get the lime out as soon as you can give it 1.5T per acre
I'd use 18 6 12 for aftergrass

Spot on

kevthegaff

How long after spreading lime can be grazed?

TUBBY

kevthegaff wrote: »

How long after spreading lime can be grazed?

Next day but silage ideally not same year but defo more than 4mths.

Longford Leader

White Clover wrote: »

At that ph, only about 80% of the p that you spread will be available to the grass.
What I would spread is 4 x 0 7 30 and follow with 3 x can. Cut after 6 weeks.
Get the lime out as soon as you can give it 1.5T per acre
I'd use 18 6 12 for aftergrass

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that I will spread around 2500 gallons/acre of slurry once cut.

I can't find it now but I read somewhere that you shouldn't put more the 72 units of K out in one go so 3 x 0 7 30 should do.

Would it be suitable to spread CAN or UREA while at index 2 ?

White Clover

Longford Leader wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that I will spread around 2500 gallons/acre of slurry once cut.

I can't find it now but I read somewhere that you shouldn't put more the 72 units of K out in one go so 3 x 0 7 30 should do.

Would it be suitable to spread CAN or UREA while at index 2 ?

I have often spread 120 and even 150 units of K for silage without a problem. For grazing maybe 72 would be max due to Tetney.
Once you have applied adequate p & K, you can use can or UREA to supply Nitrogen. My preference is can.

Remember too that slurry, as a result of cattle eating silage that has come off of low index fields, will have a lower Nutrient level than slurry from high index fields. Iykwim.

Sami23

Bit of advice please.
Need to get fertiliser out on silage ground and grazing ground asap as the land was too wet up to now. Land is ok to travel on now but no rain is forecast for the next week and frost promised at night so just wondering will it be ok to go ahead today or should I wait for more favourable conditions ?
thanks in advance

bogman_bass

Sami23 wrote: »

Bit of advice please.
Need to get fertiliser out on silage ground and grazing ground asap as the land was too wet up to now. Land is ok to travel on now but no rain is forecast for the next week and frost promised at night so just wondering will it be ok to go ahead today or should I wait for more favourable conditions ?
thanks in advance

Land is more than damp enough to melt it. fire ahead

CHOPS01

Hope to pull a land leveller over a couple of acres that a few heavyish bullocks were allowed range on over the winter.
Should I throw out fertiliser before or after the land leveller?
Or would it make any difference at all

Good loser

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Hope to pull a land leveller over a couple of acres that a few heavyish bullocks were allowed range on over the winter.
Should I throw out fertiliser before or after the land leveller?
Or would it make any difference at all

Makes no difference. The sooner the better in April.

Good loser

farawaygrass wrote: »

Thanks for all your help guys. I've put on the order now anyhow, going with 18-6-12. They would have to order it in with sulphur so didn't bother.
Would a bag to the acre be alright so this time around?
Will try get lime out in some of the land later on. Hard to have money for it all, and even harder to have the money if it's just taking from farm money.

At your pH levels of 6.1 to 6.3 there's no need for lime.

With fertilizer the important thing is to utilize any grass that's grown efficiently - especially where money is scarce (it always is).

P and K are long term investments. Rapid response comes from Nitrogen and urea is the cheapest form of N. That's why 18.6.12 is better than 10.10.20. More N and less of the others.

If money was unlimited could do 3 bags 10.10.20 every Spring and N thereon. Until P and K climbed to index 3 levels; that would take a ling time. That's for grazing only. More then for hay/silage.

smokey-fitz

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Hope to pull a land leveller over a couple of acres that a few heavyish bullocks were allowed range on over the winter.
Should I throw out fertiliser before or after the land leveller?
Or would it make any difference at all

Add your reply here.
Im guessing the field is poached? You could harrow it and shake out some grass seed and then roll too you would have a cheap reseeded field.. Just don't poach it next year

CHOPS01

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Add your reply here.
Im guessing the field is poached? You could harrow it and shake out some grass seed and then roll too you would have a cheap reseeded field.. Just don't poach it next year

Thought of doing that but it's not poached bad enough really to do that.
Hope to pull leveller over it this evening and through out a few bags Monday or Tuesday evening