Fixed charge notice - what is going on?

masculinist

I received in the post this morning a ''fixed charge notice'' costing 40 euro alleging that my vehicle was parked at a no parking sign in the city centre contrary to Section 35(5) Road traffic act 1994. No mention of penalty points, only a demand for money.

The alleged offence occurred at the beginning of December which seems quite a long time ago for something like this.

This was completely unexpected and I am wracking my brain to try and see the logic behind this. I know parking to annoy others does not fit my pattern of doing things. I can say for sure that no Garda spoke to me as my dealings with Gardai are rare and infrequent. I have been driving for years and never received anything like this before. I never leave my car unattended ever. So the only possible to my mind explanation would be that I pulled over to let someone out or pulled over to pick up someone. And I can say hand on my heart that whenever I pull over to pick up or let someone out I do not have a history of obstructing others either. I park with care and consideration for the plans of others. To receive a fine for this sounds absolutely draconian. Is pulling over classified as parking now ?

The only other information given is the street and Traffic sign number RUS019 which doesnt mean anything to me.

Are these notices supposed to arrive in the post ninja like months later without any Garda approaching you , warning you or handing you a physical ticket ?

How can I find out what the evidence is concerning this notice ? There is no Garda name on it. Nothing but a demand for money with menaces basically.

ba_barabus

Who exactly has issued the fine?

BigEejit

Can you ask for photographic evidence?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Write back and request proof and state you weren't anywhere near that location on that date.

masculinist

ba_barabus wrote: »

Who exactly has issued the fine?

There is no name on the ticket. No Garda name whatsoever.

BigEejit wrote: »

Can you ask for photographic evidence?

Thats what I would like to know. I have always obeyed the law. Being accused of not obeying the law is big news to me

Kepler 186f

Firstly there are no penalty points given for minor parking offences. Secondly are you certain it came from the Gards as City Council parking wardens also issue these tickets. Thirdly there is such a thing as a non intercept ticket, which I think means a Gard or Council parking warden doesn't have to approach you and outline that you'll be receiving a ticket. It doesn't necessarily mean you were driving but as you got the ticket you must be the owner of the car. My suggestions would be to pay it as it will go up if not paid in the allocated time or you could be summonsed to court and get a larger fine, UNLESS you definitely weren't parked in a no parking zone on the street and day in question where you could challenge it

ba_barabus

masculinist wrote: »

There is no name on the ticket. No Garda name whatsoever.

But was it issued by the Gardaí or by the council or maybe NCPS?

Is there a reference number on it?

Jayop

Any chance it could be a scam of some sort? It's unlikely but where are they asking for you to pay the fine?

Dial Hard

masculinist wrote: »

There is no name on the ticket. No Garda name whatsoever.

It still has to have been issued by *a* body. What letterhead/logo is on the letter?

masculinist

Kepler 186f wrote: »

Firstly there are no penalty points given for minor parking offences. Secondly are you certain it came from the Gards as City Council parking wardens also issue these tickets. Thirdly there is such a thing as a non intercept ticket, which I think means a Gard or Council parking warden doesn't have to approach you and outline that you'll be receiving a ticket. It doesn't necessarily mean you were driving but as you got the ticket you must be the owner of the car. My suggestions would be to pay it as it will go up if not paid in the allocated time or you could be summonsed to court and get a larger fine, UNLESS you definitely weren't parked illegally on the street and day in question where you could challenge it

There is no name of either a warden or a Garda on the ticket. My car has never been left unattended either. Is an unattended car classified as ''parked'' ? There are only ever two people in my car, myself or my girlfriend and both of us are legally insured to drive the car.
A 'non-intercept'' ticket sounds ridiculous to me as though admitting that the ticket has been given out without moral basis. No leaflet left in the car windscreen and no attempt to educate the public as to why they should change their behaviour. If I was supposedly parked as alleged then I was right there to be morally lectured. Anyway back to the point, how can I find out what my chances of challenging this are ?

masculinist

Dial Hard wrote: »

It still has to have been issued by *a* body. What letterhead/logo is on the letter?

''An Garda Siochana, fixed charge processing office, Parnell Street, Thurles , Tipperary''

The document looks legit. Its just all new to me . For the last ten years I have been driving I never received a ticket or a penalty point or was clamped even once. Now this letter arrives referring back to December. Why the delay and wheres the evidence ?

biko

How are you supposed to pay? Does it give you a bank or a number to ring to pay with card?

Ring the official number and ask about the ticket http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=13233

masculinist

biko wrote: »

How are you supposed to pay? Does it give you a bank or a number to ring to pay with card?

Post Office. it looks like it came from the government. I just question why I should believe the government ...

AlfaZen

In this day and age, with the technology that is available, all motoring related fines should come with photographic evidence.

The offence would be clear cut (in most cases) and would eliminate any confusion. It would clean up the whole process. Less errors, fines payed on time and less cases going to court.

runawaybishop

AlfaZen wrote: »

In this day and age, with the technology that is available, all motoring related fines should come with photographic evidence.

The offence would be clear cut (in most cases) and would eliminate any confusion. It would clean up the whole process. Less errors, fines payed on time and less cases going to court.

Yeah, like this!

masculinist

biko wrote: »

Ring the official number and ask about the ticket http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=13233

I will ring the number thanks. After I process this information and make sure I know what to ask them. Otherwise I would expect someone to answer the phone who simply expects me to pay up without a murmur. I want to figure out what exactly I am being accused of first.

Is this what they are accusing me of ? Unfortunately I feel totally lost when looking at legal information. The notice says ''Section 35(5), Parking at a no parking sign RUS019'' . Is pulling in to collect or let someone out classified as parking ?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/7/section/35/

AlfaZen wrote: »

In this day and age, with the technology that is available, all motoring related fines should come with photographic evidence.

The offence would be clear cut (in most cases) and would eliminate any confusion. It would clean up the whole process. Less errors, fines payed on time and less cases going to court.

Definitely.

I'd like to try to figure out

masculinist

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yeah, like this!

haha thanks for the laugh :pac:

Marcusm

masculinist wrote: »

I will ring the number thanks. After I process this information and make sure I know what to ask them. Otherwise I would expect someone to answer the phone who simply expects me to pay up without a murmur. I want to figure out what exactly I am being accused of first.

Is this what they are accusing me of ? Unfortunately I feel totally lost when looking at legal information. The notice says ''Section 35(5), Parking at a no parking sign RUS019'' . Is pulling in to collect or let someone out classified as parking ?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/7/section/35/




Definitely.

I'd like to try to figure out

Were you given a location? Could you have been parked your car at that location at that time? Gardai don't generally provide windscreen tickets and don't have to put a slip under your windwiper, nor do they have to lecture you. If they were in traffic beside your stationary car, all they would have had to do is note the number, time, date and location and arrange for a ticket to be issued. If you do not accept the FCP then expect a summons to issue for a court date. Assuming the Garda turns up, he will provide evidence written in his notebook and it will be accepted unless you can assert otherwise.

Stopping is not the same as parking; however, as it is a Garda issued ticket, I would assume that if you were in the car, they would have told you to move along rather go through the hassle of issuing a low value ticket. IS it possible that you were at the location and left the car?

Kepler 186f

masculinist wrote: »

There is no name of either a warden or a Garda on the ticket. My car has never been left unattended either. Is an unattended car classified as ''parked'' ? There are only ever two people in my car, myself or my girlfriend and both of us are legally insured to drive the car.
A 'non-intercept'' ticket sounds ridiculous to me as though admitting that the ticket has been given out without moral basis. No leaflet left in the car windscreen and no attempt to educate the public as to why they should change their behaviour. If I was supposedly parked as alleged then I was right there to be morally lectured. Anyway back to the point, how can I find out what my chances of challenging this are ?

The info I posted was from someone in the know.
In my opinion a unattended or otherwise car parked (as in not moving) on a road is parked. You say it has no name on it, where is it issued from? Option 1 - Garda Fixed Charge Office based somewhere in Tipp? If so then it's from the Gards.
The only way to challenge that is by not paying it, resulting in a summons being issued to you, you having to take a day off work and attend Court, and you outlining you objections to the Judge.
Option 2 - Does it say it's from a City/ Town Council? Then I believe you can write to them appealing on whatever basis you want. Make sure it's within enough of a timeframe (which should be written on the notice)

zdragon

Kepler 186f wrote: »

The only way to challenge that is by not paying it

wrong and bad advise.

any fine and conviction has an appeal procedure.

follow the appeal procedure described on Garda site. also read other warning notes and any small print.

Kepler 186f

zdragon wrote: »

Kepler 186f wrote: »

The only way to challenge that is by not paying it

wrong and bad advise.

any fine and conviction has an appeal procedure.

follow the appeal procedure described on Garda site. also read other warning notes and any small print.

It wasn't advice, but an opinion as to the only way known to me to appeal it

MarkR

I googled the sign number, got this.

(c) Subject to sub-paragraphs (d) and (e), a vehicle, other than a large
public service vehicle, shall not be parked where traffic sign number
RUS019 [No Parking] accompanied by an information plate containing
the words “Except Buses — Ach Amháin Busanna” or similar
words is provided.

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/618/made/en/pdf

MarkR

I googled the sign number, got this.

(c) Subject to sub-paragraphs (d) and (e), a vehicle, other than a large
public service vehicle, shall not be parked where traffic sign number
RUS019 [No Parking] accompanied by an information plate containing
the words “Except Buses — Ach Amháin Busanna” or similar
words is provided.

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/618/made/en/pdf

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

masculinist

MarkR wrote: »

I googled the sign number, got this.

(c) Subject to sub-paragraphs (d) and (e), a vehicle, other than a large
public service vehicle, shall not be parked where traffic sign number
RUS019 [No Parking] accompanied by an information plate containing
the words “Except Buses — Ach Amháin Busanna” or similar
words is provided.

From http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/618/made/en/pdf

well it is alleged to have happened on Moore Street.

I cant' imagine any bus parking there. I often pulled in there while the missus ran into Lidl but under no circumstances has the car ever been abandoned or unattended. I pulled in there and got out of the car to meet someone from Adverts.ie and would have met them right in front of my car. That transaction would have lasted around 10 or twenty seconds. but the timing of the alleged event doesnt fit this. I cant believe they can send you a ticket over 2 months later and expect you to remember. I can safely say no Garda or Warden spoke to me. I can also safely say I did not jump out of the car to walk into a shop. Thats simply not my style. I'm not the chancer type when it comes to parking. I would have used the 2 euro an hour car park on Moore Lane. The whole thing is baffling. I will drive down there later and take a look at that whole road for such a sign as you describe.

savagethegoat

It seems quite clear to me that you sometimes park in that location whilst your missus runs into Lidl....that's parking where it's not allowed and someone saw you, a Gard passing in a car perhaps. Whether you are there or not doesn't make a difference, you were parked where it's prohibited. Pay the ticket.

zdragon

Kepler 186f wrote: »

It wasn't advice, but an opinion as to the only way known to me to appeal it

have you many times successfully appealed like this?

Kepler 186f

Runawaybishop said
Yeah, like this!

YouTube video
That clip was brilliant, if this was a council ticket and appealed in that way I'm sure anyone would get off with it

masculinist

savagethegoat wrote: »

It seems quite clear to me that you sometimes park in that location whilst your missus runs into Lidl....that's parking where it's not allowed and someone saw you, a Gard passing in a car perhaps. Whether you are there or not doesn't make a difference, you were parked where it's prohibited. Pay the ticket.

Theres more to this than your interpretation. The ticket is specific while I was speaking in large generalizations. But the ticket is not that specific about location either. How is it defined as parking if you never leave the car ? And even the clamper is supposed to give you ten minutes grace before they move in. Dropping the missus off at Lidl is not parking. Neither is picking her up. Considering the relation between the country and the enforcement of law and order right at the top I am justifiably feeling singled out here. And also I am not liking this ninja style of policing, ticketing you two months after an alleged event with no confrontation or public relations while it is handed out.

Kepler 186f

zdragon wrote: »

Kepler 186f wrote: »

It wasn't advice, but an opinion as to the only way known to me to appeal it

have you many times successfully appealed like this?

I personally haven't appealed like this nor would I, if I was guilty of parking illegally and received a ticket. Masculinist asked what his options were, as in a previous comment I asked an aquaintance so the option was given. It is an option, Not a recommendation in the slightest. In fact in my first comment I recommended he paid it unless it wasn't possible that his vehicle was parked on the street on the date in question

masculinist

Kepler 186f wrote: »

I recommended he paid it unless it wasn't possible that his vehicle was parked on the street on the date in question

Of course its possible my car was there because its Dublin City Centre in the weeks running up to Christmas however what would be impossible is the car being parked and then abandoned. Its also possible this is a miscarriage of justice because I know I am not a parking chancer who parks his car then runs into a store. That sort of thing stresses me too much.
So I am wondering at the definition of the allegation. I can clearly remember now spotting a friend and his wife and baby on the street corner [at Moore Street] a few weeks before Christmas and pulling over to a safe location off the main road, not obstructing or blocking anyone to wish them a Happy Christmas in case I didnt' see them. Then I was swiftly on my way without leaving the car unattended] I do not believe the law was designed to obstruct something like this. I believe the purpose of the law is to target some other type of behaviour. And the code given in the fine doesnt ring a bell.

savagethegoat

masculinist wrote: »

Theres more to this than your interpretation. The ticket is specific while I was speaking in large generalizations. But the ticket is not that specific about location either. How is it defined as parking if you never leave the car ? And even the clamper is supposed to give you ten minutes grace before they move in. Dropping the missus off at Lidl is not parking. Neither is picking her up. Considering the relation between the country and the enforcement of law and order right at the top I am justifiably feeling singled out here. And also I am not liking this ninja style of policing, ticketing you two months after an alleged event with no confrontation or public relations while it is handed out.

Well I'd assume the parking restriction is there so as not to have the road blocked by parked cars. You didn't say earlier that you dropped off the missus and picked her up later , you said you pulled up there whilst she ran in, (often)implying, to me , that you were waiting some minutes for her. Whether you are in the car or not makes no difference to you blocking part of the road by parking, sorry, pulling up where you shouldn't. You also mention an occasion where you did leave the car. A gard couldn't know that the guy on the pavement was the driver and would be moving in a minute, all he would see is an empty car.

MojoMaker

Oh pay the bleeding fine and be done with the whiny moral objections. it's not a mistake, it's not a scam.

This is precisely why there are such things as no-intercept tickets, to avoid this kind of BS remonstrations with uptight members of the public who believe they have been wronged somehow.

MojoMaker

Duplicate

Kepler 186f

masculinist wrote: »

Kepler 186f wrote: »

I recommended he paid it unless it wasn't possible that his vehicle was parked on the street on the date in question

Of course its possible my car was there because its Dublin City Centre in the weeks running up to Christmas however what would be impossible is the car being parked and then abandoned. Its also possible this is a miscarriage of justice because I know I am not a parking chancer who parks his car then runs into a store. That sort of thing stresses me too much.
So I am wondering at the definition of the allegation. I can clearly remember now spotting a friend and his wife and baby on the street corner [at Moore Street] a few weeks before Christmas and pulling over to a safe location off the main road, not obstructing or blocking anyone to wish them a Happy Christmas in case I didnt' see them. Then I was swiftly on my way without leaving the car unattended] I do not believe the law was designed to obstruct something like this. I believe the purpose of the law is to target some other type of behaviour. And the code given in the fine doesnt ring a bell.

Pay the ticket, your argument wouldn't be entertained by a Judge who would in all likelyhood increase the fine

Sh1tbag OToole

MojoMaker wrote: »

Oh pay the bleeding fine and be done with the whiny moral objections. it's not a mistake, it's not a scam.

This is precisely why there are such things as no-intercept tickets, to avoid this kind of BS remonstrations with uptight members of the public who believe they have been wronged somehow.

Ah sure why not, pay any ould thing that lands in your door regardless if you've ever been to the place where you were supposed to have been caught. Sure things are booming aren't they? Tis better than firing your change into the bin after buying a breakfast roll and a few extra fines here and there will help FG clear the national debt in no time

goldenhoarde

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/3/enacted/en/html

Look up park on this. Once a car is stationary from this I would assume you're parked. People in the car or not doesn't matter. So I doubt you have any valid appeal

In essence you parked and broke the rules so pay the fine

masculinist

well. Thanks for the advice from the kind contributors to this thread.
As for the aggressive belligerent authoritarian ones whos unfriendly advice wasnt asked for, I have bad news. Charges were thrown out of court due to lack of evidence. Of course there was no evidence because it never happened - which was the whole point of the thread