Luas Drivers pay

stoneill

Currently, the Luas drivers' pay ranges from €35,901 for a 39-hour week in year one to €42,247, when they are there for nine years.

But Siptu claims a document reveals the drivers want to earn from €41,895 to €64,993 by January next year.

The National Bus and Railworkers Union has calculated that Luas drivers' hourly pay is €20.83, with a bonus.
(Source Indo)

Seems decent money for a not too arduous job.
Do you think that they are underpaid and that the strike is warranted?

stimpson

stoneill wrote: »

Currently, the Luas drivers' pay ranges from €35,901 for a 39-hour week in year one to €42,247, when they are there for nine years.

In fairness, 9 years is a lot longer than 39 hours.

The J Stands for Jay

The important thing here is to remember to tell me how to become a Luas driver.

ToddyDoody

McGaggs wrote: »

The important thing here is to remember to tell me how to become a Luas driver.

You have to know someone.

Hemerodrome

They have the safety of hundreds of people in their hands and they have to have eyes everywhere for unbelievably stupid drivers and moronic pedestrians. Pay 'em well I say.

pajero12

Hemerodrome wrote: »

They have the safety of hundreds of people in their hands and they have to have eyes everywhere for unbelievably stupid drivers and moronic pedestrians. Pay 'em well I say.

No more so than any public transport drivers? In my opinion they have an easier job than bus drivers. Eyes everywhere? They barely have to turn their head?

Liam McPoyle

Tbf, working in a job for 9 years and only being able to achieve a max of a €7k increase in that time is pretty shyt.

Anyway, the Union rep said last week that the up to €64k is the starting point, I'd suspect that it will end up being up to a max of €55k or thereabouts for 9 years or more service.

kneemos

Business Cat wrote: »

Tbf, working in a job for 9 years and only being able to achieve a max of a €7k increase in that time is pretty shyt.

Anyway, the Union rep said last week that the up to €64k is the starting point, I'd suspect that it will end up being up to a max of €55k or thereabouts for 9 years or more service.

For an unskilled/semi skilled worker those rates are exceptional.Two and a half grand bonus at Christmas as well.
Plenty of graduates on less.

TallGlass

stoneill wrote: »

Currently, the Luas drivers' pay ranges from €35,901 for a 39-hour week in year one to €42,247, when they are there for nine years.

But Siptu claims a document reveals the drivers want to earn from €41,895 to €64,993 by January next year.

The National Bus and Railworkers Union has calculated that Luas drivers' hourly pay is €20.83, with a bonus.
(Source Indo)

Seems decent money for a not too arduous job.
Do you think that they are underpaid and that the strike is warranted?

Firefighters and Garda start out on around 24k , would the Luas drivers ever go and fúck, its a private company, there lucky to be getting anywhere near what they are getting at the moment.

If there are not happy with the pay then get another job, it's what the signed up to at the time.

Doctors start on 30k, and that's after a minimum of 5 years of college.

whiskeyman

Go docklands and automate the flipping thing!
That'll teach 'em!!

In 10 years, it'll probably be reality anyway. Not surprising if they want to make hay now while the sun still shines...

The Backwards Man

People always think the other person's job is a handy number.

On saying that, I think the Luas drivers are maybe taking the piss a wee bit.

Uriel.

As others said, I think both their current salary and their new salary demands are astronomical for the job they are doing.

They should be on a lower starting salary with increments lasting for more than 9 years. This needs to be nipped in the bud before luas turns out like the other transport companies

wakka12

Easiest job going. How/why are waiters and waitresses run off their legs all day long earning so much less

Menas

There are plenty of people who would do their job for the current salary. But shure lets cause a rake of hassle for a load of people and their families this week anyway....

The Backwards Man

wakka12 wrote: »

Easiest job going

How long have you been driving a Luas?

The J Stands for Jay

It's always SIPTU with the crazy demands. We should all boycott anything to do with SIPTU, starting with telling all the Labour candidates we won't vote for them because of their SIPTU links.

rainbow kirby

Tube drivers in London are on around £50k, which is absolutely ridiculous money for a job that's semi-automated anyway. I suspect the Luas drivers want a bit of that action...

seamus

Business Cat wrote: »

Tbf, working in a job for 9 years and only being able to achieve a max of a €7k increase in that time is pretty shyt.

It is...but at the end of the day they're doing the same job they were nine years ago. They haven't expanded their skillset in any major way.
Studies show that employees generate the most worth in their first three years as they're eager to get things done right. After that, there's diminishing returns as the rot sets in, so it's not worth the company's while paying large salary increments.

In terms of Luas, experienced drivers are worth extra money, but while the difference between a new driver and a third-year employee will be huge, the difference between a third-year and a ninth-year driver will be minimal in comparison.

I really don't think the drivers are on a strong footing here. I'm sure any open positions get hundreds of CVs in from perfectly capable people, most of whom would jump at a €36k starting salary and 39 hour week with fixed hours.

miezekatze

I think their current salary is fairly generous considering it's basically an unskilled job that seems easy enough to do. Don't think they should be getting any increase at all, and there'd be plenty of people willing to replace them at the current rates if some were to quit.

It's not just the drivers that are looking for more money btw, also the ticket inspectors etc. Their demands are just as unrealistic.

TallGlass

seamus wrote: »

I'm sure any open positions get hundreds of CVs in from perfectly capable people, most of whom would jump at a €36k starting salary and 39 hour week with fixed hours.

Send the application my way, no problems here with that pay and what it rises to after 9 years. Excellent salary and unlike some private companies your getting pay rises and a bonus! Might be a bit boring and repetitive but for that wage, it's from what I can see a great wage and a good job.

Riskymove

miezekatze wrote: »

Don't think they should be getting any increase at all, and there'd be plenty of people willing to replace them at the current rates if some were to quit.

their demand seems to be based solely on the fact that the company is making more profits

nothing to do with productivity or new skills etc

seamus

miezekatze wrote: »

I think their current salary is fairly generous considering it's basically an unskilled job that seems easy enough to do.

It's semi-skilled.

Unskilled - No real training required. On your first day you can be sent out to work with a few minutes or hours of instruction, e.g. sweeping streets, packing shelves, etc.

Semi-Skilled - Some informal training or certification required - Tram driver, taxi driver, security guard, etc.

Skilled - Extensive training (12 months+) and formal certification are required.

ThisRegard

Business Cat wrote: »

Tbf, working in a job for 9 years and only being able to achieve a max of a €7k increase in that time is pretty shyt.

Why? The job doesn't require you to become any more skilled in that period, nor do to have to continuously train to keep up with the latest Luas software. It doesn't get harder.

fullstop

The Backwards Man wrote: »

How long have you been driving a Luas?

What qualifications do Luas drivers require?

ThisRegard

And just to add, their outlandish claims for €64,993 is all the more ridiculous when you compare it to software developers who constantly have to reskill on an annual basis, often at their own cost, to remain competitive in the jobs market, and still wouldn't earn that too easily.

Their claim is purely based on how long they've been sitting in a seat for. Any asshole can do the job with a few weeks training.

Their cab is hardly an airplane cockpit, there's people around here with more complicated gaming set-ups.

http://victoryguy.smugmug.com/keyword/LUAS;4006/i-C98LdXn/A

The Backwards Man

fullstop wrote: »

What qualifications do Luas drivers require?

Haven't a clue, I've never driven one. Plenty here seem to know a lot about how easy it is though, I was just curious.

Deise Vu

Between the Luas, Nursing suddenly becoming unbearable (again), and the Guards and the teachers kicking up I think elections should be called on a Saturday and held on a Monday in future.

It might also help if someone in the media could ask Liam Doran how extra money and two days holidays for A&E nurses helps to get people off trolleys, unless they were being left there for tactical PR reasons in the first place.

The one that absolutely grinds my gears though was the sacrifices which the unions made on behalf of not-yet-existing members during the height of the financial crisis by pulling up the ladder behind existing members on pay and pensions. Yet they stand in front of a totally unquestioning media now and talk about the low starting pay and terrible conditions of the few who started in the last few years as if their hearts were broken for them while neglecting to mention that the vast majority sat out the crisis quite nicely, thank you very much.

Absolute bloody hypocrites.

The Backwards Man

ThisRegard wrote: »

And just to add, their outlandish claims for €64,993 is all the more ridiculous when you compare it to software developers who constantly have to reskill on an annual basis, often at their own cost, to remain competitive in the jobs market, and still wouldn't earn that too easily.

Their claim is purely based on how long they've been sitting in a seat for. Any asshole can do the job with a few weeks training.

Their cab is hardly an airplane cockpit, there's people around here with more complicated gaming set-ups.

http://victoryguy.smugmug.com/keyword/LUAS;4006/i-C98LdXn/A

Software development is just playing computer games all day. A four year old could do that.

Mint Sauce

Are all the people saying it takes little training, anyone can do it, its skilled, semi skilled, actually work for Luas?

I'd imagine learning the routes, understanding how the infrastructure works, what to do if notice any damage to it, how the tram works, how/what to inspect, reporting and operating of it, passenger safety, and safety those around you, reporting and dealing of incidents, etc etc etc, and that's just the top of my head.

I'd imagine all of that, takes some training, and probably one or twenty different certs as well.

ThisRegard

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Software development is just playing computer games all day. A four year old could do that.

But you do admit that at least it's skilled, some of those games these days are pretty tough:D

SEPT 23 1989

fullstop wrote: »

What qualifications do Luas drivers require?

they need to have two fully working eyes and the use of one hand for operating the handle

ThisRegard

Mint Sauce wrote: »

I'd imagine learning the routes,

Good point in fairness, those Luas I'd day are pretty hard to reverse around a corner when you take a wrong turn.

DeanAustin

Riskymove wrote: »

their demand seems to be based solely on the fact that the company is making more profits

nothing to do with productivity or new skills etc

They may have a point. However, based on that logic, their pay should be reduced if profits go down. I'd imagine if that happened, we'd have another strike on our hands.

Turtyturd

Learn the routes?

'Ah balls, I've pulled into Connolly when I was supposed to go to the point. However will I get out of this one?'

Greyian

Mint Sauce wrote: »

I'd imagine learning the routes

If only they had some sort of trail or path to follow...

Mint Sauce

Greyian wrote: »

If only they had some sort of trail or path to follow...

And with all the intersections, points, signals, stops, turns, bridges, cuttings, rises, and falls along them. Every single one with their own hazards, I'd imagine they would have to know how to react for everyone of them, thier location along the route, braking and slowing down points, etc etc etc.

Not saying they deserve the amount they are asking for, but it is a pretty responsible job, when you even just take the above into account.

ThisRegard

Mint Sauce wrote: »

And with all the intersections, points, signals, stops, turns, bridges, cuttings, rises, and falls along them. Every single one with their own hazards, I'd imagine they would have to know how to react for everyone of them, thier location along the route, braking and slowing down points, etc etc etc.

Not saying they deserve the amount they are asking for, but it is a pretty responsible job, when you even just take the above into account.

So you know, just like everyone else in the country who drive, walk or cycle the same route into and out of work on a daily basis?

How long do you think that would take to figure out, a day, two days?

fullstop

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Haven't a clue, I've never driven one. Plenty here seem to know a lot about how easy it is though, I was just curious.

The answer is none, so he wasn't far wrong.

maudgonner

Turtyturd wrote: »

Learn the routes?

'Ah balls, I've pulled into Connolly when I was supposed to go to the point. However will I get out of this one?'

In fairness, I'd say there's a good few Red Line drivers desperately trying to find their way onto the Green Line.

fullstop

Mint Sauce wrote: »

And with all the intersections, points, signals, stops, turns, bridges, cuttings, rises, and falls along them. Every single one with their own hazards, I'd imagine they would have to know how to react for everyone of them, thier location along the route, braking and slowing down points, etc etc etc.

Not saying they deserve the amount they are asking for, but it is a pretty responsible job, when you even just take the above into account.

So wait, let me get this right...they have to know to stop when a traffic light tells them and go when it tells them as well as make the tram go and slow down? :D Lord above, give them 100k per year!

Mint Sauce

ThisRegard wrote: »

So you know, just like everyone else in the country who drive, walk or cycle the same route into and out of work on a daily basis?

How long do you think that would take to figure out, a day, two days?

I would say there's a slight difference between figuring out, and exact knowledge.

There's a slight difference to knowing the route on my commute, and a tram drivers route.

I only have my self in my car, a tram driver has the lives of hundreds in his, and will have a hell of allot more accountability and stuff to answer to if involved in an incident.

snickerpuss

Greyian wrote: »

If only they had some sort of trail or path to follow...

I'm sure it's different with Luas Drivers but people often don't believe that train drivers need to learn each route they drive. They need to know every metre of track - speed restrictions, gradients, bends, signals, boards, local landmarks etc. They are tested on each route annually as well as being monitored in real time while they are driving.

Private companies in UK also pay train drivers similar amounts (£50,000+) to here despite a general idea that they are overpaid. It's a hugely responsible job with a lot of knowledge required. Particularly on the disel intercity trains. I don't really feel that the Luas drivers are in the same category. They don't train for nearly as long for example. Train drivers do a year long driving course and then begin building up a few hundred driving hours before they are examined and passed out. They then do an annual 'rules' exam and other training courses.

Greyian

Mint Sauce wrote: »

And with all the intersections, points, signals, stops, turns, bridges, cuttings, rises, and falls along them. Every single one with their own hazards, I'd imagine they would have to know how to react for everyone of them, thier location along the route, braking and slowing down points, etc etc etc.

Not saying they deserve the amount they are asking for, but it is a pretty responsible job, when you even just take the above into account.

What you're saying is they have to know how to drive...just like millions of other people in this country. Should employers start paying an extra €10,000+ a year to any employees who drive to work, because of the pretty responsible commute they have?

In a car, red light means stop. In a tram, horizontal line means stop.
In a car, green light means go (provided it is safe to do so). In a tram, vertical line means go (provided it is safe to do so).

Bridges? You'll probably find that anyone driving a car also has to be aware of them, slow down, monitor road conditions, beware of being unsighted over hills etc etc.

Luas drivers don't have to worry about taking a wrong turn and going down a one way street the wrong way. They don't have to worry about refueling. They don't have to worry about parallel parking.

Ally Dick

Red line drivers should get more money than green line drivers for working in a war zone

ThisRegard

Mint Sauce wrote: »

I would say there's a slight difference between figuring out, and exact knowledge.

There's a slight difference to knowing the route on my commute, and a tram drivers route.

I only have my self in my car, a tram driver has the lives of hundreds in his, and will have a hell of allot more accountability and stuff to answer to if involved in an incident.

For the most part, Luas lines don't interact with other traffic, the Red line more so than the Green. But you're really trying to make it out a lot more complicated than it actually is. Hundreds of thousands of us manage this on a daily basis.

Using your logic, how much money should bus drivers been given to differentiate their job from the relatively simple Luas drivers job, if their wage claims are even partially justified?

Mint Sauce

snickerpuss wrote: »

I'm sure it's different with Luas Drivers but people often don't believe that train drivers need to learn each route they drive. They need to know every metre of track - speed restrictions, gradients, bends, signals, boards, local landmarks etc. They are tested on each route annually as well as being monitored in real time while they are driving.

Private companies in UK also pay train drivers similar amounts (£50,000+) to here despite a general idea that they are overpaid. It's a hugely responsible job with a lot of knowledge required. Particularly on the disel intercity trains. I don't really feel that the Luas drivers are in the same category. They don't train for nearly as long for example. Train drivers do a year long driving course and then begin building up a few hundred driving hours before they are examined and passed out. They then do an annual 'rules' exam and other training courses.

Thank you, at last someone one on the same thinking as me.

eeguy

fullstop wrote: »

What qualifications do Luas drivers require?

They do 5 weeks of classroom training, then a few weeks of supervised driving

Greyian

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Thank you, at last someone one on the same thinking as me.

Seems you missed this line in his post

snickerpuss wrote:

I don't really feel that the Luas drivers are in the same category.

Mint Sauce

Greyian wrote: »

What you're saying is they have to know how to drive...just like millions of other people in this country. Should employers start paying an extra €10,000+ a year to any employees who drive to work, because of the pretty responsible commute they have?

In a car, red light means stop. In a tram, horizontal line means stop.
In a car, green light means go (provided it is safe to do so). In a tram, vertical line means go (provided it is safe to do so).

Bridges? You'll probably find that anyone driving a car also has to be aware of them, slow down, monitor road conditions, beware of being unsighted over hills etc etc.

Luas drivers don't have to worry about taking a wrong turn and going down a one way street the wrong way. They don't have to worry about refueling. They don't have to worry about parallel parking.

And for all of the above, they have a lot higher level of accountability and more to answer for compared to me in my car.

The Backwards Man

fullstop wrote: »

The answer is none, so he wasn't far wrong.

Must be an easy job so.