Anthony Joshua v Charles Martin

nacho libre

Big Ears wrote: »

Haye is a natural counter puncher and has been since he was an amateur.
He also has a tendency to fight off the back foot and be even more tentative when he's facing higher quality opposition, especially if they possess a lot of power.
With that said it was Wlad's feet which negated Haye's opportunities to counter, and helped make the fight tremendously boring.

Joshua's footwork is okay and he has got pretty quick feet, but nowhere near the level Wlad was at back then. Haye would get opportunities to counter, and he'd likely have enough power to get the job done if he could land. The main issue is if Joshua gets him out of there before he even gets a chance to throw anything back. Haye's not as agile as he once was, and his chin has never been the best.....

It hasn't , yet in that fight Wlad hit him clean a couple of times(was it round seven?) and Haye stayed up. Those shots would have knocked a lot of other fighters out. I was both surprised and disappointed at the time.

Dick phelan

AJ is belt like a tank but i do wonder if he's actually too built, Frank Bruno was the same in terms of muscle and he had terrible stamina problems, At the end of the day all a boxing needs in terms of good shape is to do 12 rounds well, Fury doesn't look in great shape but he's got great stamina. Think it's unfair to be throwing around the PED accusations at Joshua or any other fighter without some proper evidence or at least very dodgy circumstances. Fair play to him tonight he seems a decent lad and while Martin was a joke Joshua can only beat who's in front of him, in reality it's the hype that surrounds Joshua that is annoying, can't be denied he's got talent and is enjoyable to watch in the ring

walshb

mansize wrote: »

Fury would be a very difficult fight for Joshua

No, he wouldn't. Early KO win for Joshua.

Glad I didn't waste 22euro on that show. How D undercard figjts go?

mansize

walshb wrote: »

No, he wouldn't. Early KO win for Joshua.

Glad I didn't waste 22euro on that show. How D undercard figjts go?

Well only time will tell

barney4001

NIGEL BENNS SON WON IN 1ST ROUND

walshb

mansize wrote: »

Well only time will tell

Would love to see it, but won't hold my breath.

walshb

I think Joshua beats Haye, but it's a dangerous fight for him. Haye is slippy, fast, awkward, and heavy handed. Wilder and Haye are dangerous opponents. Fury is not. I can't see Fury avoiding getting walloped clean for 12 rds.

thierry14

walshb wrote: »

I think Joshua beats Haye, but it's a dangerous fight for him. Haye is slippy, fast, awkward, and heavy handed. Wilder and Haye are dangerous opponents. Fury is not. I can't see Fury avoiding getting walloped clean for 12 rds.

Think the same, the likes of Cunningham who troubled Fury were just too small to compete.

Joshua is the perfect size to compete with anyone.

I think he can take Fury's shots, no way will Fury take Joshua's.

I think Wlad will KO Fury anyway and it will be Joshua vs Wlad in 2017

walshb

thierry14 wrote: »

Think the same, the likes of Cunningham who troubled Fury were just too small to compete.

Joshua is the perfect size to compete with anyone.

I think he can take Fury's shots, no way will Fury take Joshua's.

I think Wlad will KO Fury anyway and it will be Joshua vs Wlad in 2017

I'm kind of surprised that some of the regulars here seem quite confident that Fury out points Joshua. Even if the fight was to go the distance, Joshua for me is the more complete fighter. Smoother, cleaner and more precise and technical. Far better rhythm, and far cleaner punch delivery. I just can't see any area where Fury will excel. For me, Joshua is just overall a better boxing specimen.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

thierry14 wrote: »

Think the same, the likes of Cunningham who troubled Fury were just too small to compete.

Joshua is the perfect size to compete with anyone.

I think he can take Fury's shots, no way will Fury take Joshua's.

I think Wlad will KO Fury anyway and it will be Joshua vs Wlad in 2017

2017?!? Wlad is getting his walking sticks soon, so it has to be the near the end of this year otherwise he has to pack it up

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

I'm kind of surprised that some of the regulars here seem quite confident that Fury out points Joshua. Even if the fight was to go the distance, Joshua for me is the more complete fighter. Smoother, cleaner and more precise and technical. Far better rhythm, and far cleaner punch delivery. I just can't see any area where Fury will excel. For me, Joshua is just overall a better boxing specimen.

I think it's because Fury will be far less available than anyone Joshua has faced, and it remains to be seen if Joshua can find an opponent of that nature without leaving himself open. Fury is 6'10", disciplined, and light on his feet for his size. He's a test for any heavyweight's offensive game.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

I think it's because Fury will be far less available than anyone Joshua has faced, and it remains to be seen if Joshua can find an opponent of that nature without leaving himself open. Fury is 6'10", disciplined, and light on his feet for his size. He's a test for any heavyweight's offensive game.

I think the height is exaggerated. He'll have 2 inches on Joshua, and not near the power to keep Joshua from getting to him. Yes, for a big man he has good movement, but not the leg speed to avoid Joshua. He has to engage to win, and I cannot see him not getting hit clean. Joshua also can follow up pretty neat.

ThebitterLemon

I probably know the least of any poster on here regarding the technical aspect of boxing so please feel free to tell me that I'm talking sh1te

I've watched the Whyte fight twice and to me Joshua appears to be a bit "wooden" and cumbersome. Is it possible that his physique actually hinders his movement?

I also think that if someone like Haye had stunned him like he was in the second that they would have finished the job. I have zero time for Haye but to me he poses huge problems for AJ.

TbL

walshb

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I probably know the least of any poster on here regarding the technical aspect of boxing so please feel free to tell me that I'm talking sh1te

I've watched the Whyte fight twice and to me Joshua appears to be a bit "wooden" and cumbersome. Is it possible that his physique actually hinders his movement?

I also think that if someone like Haye had stunned him like he was in the second that they would have finished the job. I have zero time for Haye but to me he poses huge problems for AJ.

TbL

Joshua's physique/physiology is what it is. He is a little stiff upper body wise. Although he is quite athletic, his bulk-muscle composition probably doesn't allow him to be as springy and flexible as possible. I don't see it being too much of a factor. His two areas that need answering are chin and cardio stamina. The Whyte shot in Rd 2 is a good indicator, but far from definitive proof. The 7 rds in that fight were high octane, and he seemed to have plenty in the tank. If he proves very tough to hurt/KO, and very fit, then he may clean up this division.

Rough Sleeper

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

Does anyone genuinley think AJ is on roids or is it a trend among the best heavyweights?

No, it's perfectly natural for humans to weigh 250 lbs at 7% bodyfat if they drink their milk and do lots of pushups.

walshb

Leave this roids nonsense out of it.The man is cut from stone. Nature at its best!

FTA69

True. It's not fair to throw out the roid stuff until it's proven. The man deserves respect for his achievements until it's proven otherwise, casually accusing him of cheating is bad form.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

True. It's not fair to throw out the roid stuff until it's proven. The man deserves respect for his achievements until it's proven otherwise, casually accusing him of cheating is bad form.

Your post comes across suspicious of him.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Your post comes across suspicious of him.

Errah jog on I'm not insinuating or hinting at anything, if I thought someone was juicing I'd say it. I'm saying that it's bad form to accuse the man of cheating without any proof.

However, PED use is rife in all sports and a cursory chat with anyone around the sport at that level will confirm it. At the lower professional levels it's a lot more common than the BBBC would probably like to admit. Probably a discussion for a different thread though.

Henno30

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I probably know the least of any poster on here regarding the technical aspect of boxing so please feel free to tell me that I'm talking sh1te

I've watched the Whyte fight twice and to me Joshua appears to be a bit "wooden" and cumbersome. Is it possible that his physique actually hinders his movement?

I also think that if someone like Haye had stunned him like he was in the second that they would have finished the job. I have zero time for Haye but to me he poses huge problems for AJ.

TbL

I think he's a bit stiff too, but compared to the rest of the heavyweight division he looks like Roy Jones.

Henno30

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

No, it's perfectly natural for humans to weigh 250 lbs at 7% bodyfat if they drink their milk and do lots of pushups.

Frankie Lee

Somewhat interesting piece from Bellew from a while back on the subject (from 9:15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIKDLc4RbEk

The pounds of muscle argument could be applied to Joshua given how much he has bulked up since turning pro especially in 2013.

Still not evidence but for me there is a doubt which means I can get no pleasure out of his success.
However I am extremely cynical of all sport when it comes to doping at this stage.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Somewhat interesting piece from Bellew from a while back on the subject (from 9:15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIKDLc4RbEk

The pounds of muscle argument could be applied to Joshua given how much he has bulked up since turning pro especially in 2013.

Still not evidence but for me there is a doubt which means I can get no pleasure out of his success.
However I am extremely cynical of all sport when it comes to doping at this stage.

In all fairness but joshua has been lifting for years now and obviously before the olympics but look at his physicial appearance at the olympics 2012 summer compared to him now which is 4 years of lifting,( but naturally you cant start to build a lot of muscle naturally when you've reached your peak so im a bit uncertain when you've been lifting for so many consecutive years ) so definitely i dont know but im myself lifting and grinding so out of the blue he packs on a solid 20kg+ muscle which is definitely not possible because all the years of weight lifting you cant just put on clean mass ...
for natural humans without the aid of anabolic steriods ( i'm very into bodybuilding myself ) so its a 50/50 for me

Larsso30

Pre Olympics- Amateur. Not full time.

Post Olympics- No fighting lived in gym, turned pro spends all time in gym. Jesus, it disgusted me about Pac and now same baseless ****e is being said about someone else, sickens me.

Dick phelan

The reason i think Fury will beat Joshua is because AJ is too stiff imo, I also question his stamina, It's the kind of fight where if Joshua wins it will be inside 4-5 rounds, if it goes past halfway its Furys all day long imo. Ortiz would be a really hard fight for Joshua, Ortiz hits very hard and has the size and reach, for his size Ortiz is very smooth with his movement, On the other hand Ortiz is a drug cheat and part of me doesn't want to see him getting big fights.

Henno30

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Somewhat interesting piece from Bellew from a while back on the subject (from 9:15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIKDLc4RbEk

The pounds of muscle argument could be applied to Joshua given how much he has bulked up since turning pro especially in 2013.

Still not evidence but for me there is a doubt which means I can get no pleasure out of his success.
However I am extremely cynical of all sport when it comes to doping at this stage.

Bellew's right in what he's saying here. There's a saying that goes 'Big. Lean. Natural. Pick two". The implication being that if you're big and lean, you're not natural. There's a good reason for this. Getting bigger demands caloric surplus and and by-product of that is fat. When a guy gets significantly bigger in a relatively short period of time, but stays ripped as he does it, he is not doing it clean.

Johner

I don't think there's anyway Fury can avoid getting tagged here and when he does it's all over. He has been put down by much lesser punchers than Joshua.

Henno30

Johner wrote: »

I don't think there's anyway Fury can avoid getting tagged here and when he does it's all over. He has been put down by much lesser punchers than Joshua.

Probably not. But I don't think it would be easy for Joshua to get to him. While AJ would most likely spark him if he starts to land, the question is what can Fury to AJ while AJ is chasing him. If Fury can make AJ pay for missing or lunging then you have an interesting fight.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Probably not. But I don't think it would be easy for Joshua to get to him. While AJ would most likely spark him if he starts to land, the question is what can Fury to AJ while AJ is chasing him. If Fury can make AJ pay for missing or lunging then you have an interesting fight.

I see the angle you are coming at. I just don't think Fury has the foot speed to avoid getting into exchanges. He has to engage to win, and that's where I see him getting badly hurt. I really feel that Joshua can walk through him, as his power is just not up to it to deter Joshua.

To date Fury has had all the physical advantages against much lesser opposition than Joshua. He has had one fight against a man of comparable talent and size to Joshua, and he looked dreadful, even winning. Wlad was just that bit more dreadful. Joshua won't be pawing and threatening and holding back for 12 rds, scared sh1tless of getting hit.

And, why would Joshua have to chase Fury? I think he can box him at his own pace and distance. He has the height, range and speed to get to Fury whether Fury is in front of him boxing or moving away trying to box him. Stalk him, yes, chase him? No!

megadodge

A boxing-mad friend of mine rang me in 2011 having seen Joshua at the World Championships to rave about this 6'6" 18 stone Brit who was gonna be the next big thing and the following newspaper article was published in 2012, BEFORE the Olympics...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/boxing/9421783/London-2012-Olympics-how-super-heavyweight-boxer-Anthony-Joshua-turned-his-life-around-ahead-of-the-Games.html

[First line states "...Anthony Joshua, all 6ft 6in and [B][U]18 stones[/U][/B] of him..."]

And he weighed 17st 6lbs for the Martin fight.

So reading this thread, I'm sitting here wondering how people can get away with saying the following sh*te..

Frankie Lee wrote: »

.... given how much he has bulked up since turning pro especially in 2013.
.

LuckyDude12 ...so out of the blue he packs on a solid 20kg+ muscle...

He's the same size now as he was before the Olympics!!!!

But hey, don't let that get in the way of any wild unsubstantiated accusations!