the Chinese revolution

marklazarcovic

With today's rumours about a 38million pound bid for payet of west ham,plus the recent huge money signings of Ramirez,Martinez,texeria etx,where do we see this all going?

Do they have the funds and fans to sustain a good league system? Yes billion plus people but are they not poor most of them?

Will it go the way of the Russian leave or will it grow more and more?

Implications are great for European clubs I would have thought ?

It's not even a bubble, it's just some craziness. Crowds and money aren't there and won't be for the foreseeable future.

bucketybuck

Didn't they do all this before? Was it Anelka or Drogba or somebody else who went to China for big money but then left again a few months later because the money wasn't really there at all?

Canadel

Sturridge should be sold to them seeing as he was made in china.

machiavellianme

Canadel wrote: »

Sturridge should be sold to them seeing as he was made in china.

I thought he was made of china - once broken, you cant fix it no matter how much you glue it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not even a bubble, it's just some craziness. Crowds and money aren't there and won't be for the foreseeable future.

Average Attendance in the Chinese League is 22,000 which is the same as Serie A.

There are 1.4 billion people living in China so the potential for growth is massive.

marklazarcovic

They did it on a much smaller scale,50 million euro for Payet if it goes ahead,insane stuff.. the biggest economy in the world now I think,bound to be some top Chinese players soon enough

GavRedKing

Drogba and Anelka left as their wages werent being paid at the time, not sure if it was resolved but I'm assuming it was.

No doubt theres a serious market for expansion but the prices being paid are crazy, I suppose they have to offer those figures to entice players.

Andersonisgod

It'll take time to convince the very best players to relocate and the pull of history and tradition of the big European clubs will still play a part obviously, as well the infrastructure, highest level training methods and coaches ect. and it remains to be seen if this spending is sustainable but there's no doubt that there has been an increased interest in football from China. Their purchasing of shares in Manchester City was a big move, now their league is beginning to make waves. No doubt they have a market for football in the country.

Blatter

I can understand the need to offer very high wages to convince players to join but I can't understand some of the transfer fees they're paying.


Jackson Martinez bombed at Atletico, yet they paid £31m for him, £6m more than Atletico paid for him in the Summer. Surely they could have negotiated a lower fee? It's almost like they are deliberately paying over the top fees in order to make a statement. I can't work it out.

Oat23

It's all politics. The president loves football and desperately wants a higher standard in the league and the national team. The companies who own the teams are intentionally spending ridiculous amounts of money on players to show their commitment to Xi and the cause, thus improving their standing with the party.

This is chump change to them. Don't forget that.

bucketybuck

Oat23 wrote: »

It's all politics. The president loves football and desperately wants a higher standard in the league and the national team. The companies who own the teams are intentionally spending ridiculous amounts of money on players to show their commitment to Xi and the cause, thus improving their standing with the party.

This is chump change to them. Don't forget that.

It might be chump change, but that scenario doesn't suggest it will be sustainable chump change. A shift in the political winds could see that chump change dry up very quickly and then where will the clubs be?

Magico Gonzalez

Some will go for the money, won't do much for the standard of Chinese players. That's a false economy.

They should be spending big money on coaches, facilities and focusing on the under age players. Maybe they are.

English national team has arguably got worse from its peak in the late 80s / early 90s since the arrival of big foreign stars.

Magico Gonzalez

Some will go for the money, won't do much for the standard of Chinese players. That's a false economy.

They should be spending big money on coaches, facilities and focusing on the under age players. Maybe they are.

English national team has arguably got worse from its peak in the late 80s / early 90s since the arrival of big foreign stars.

Harry Palmr

Could be nothing more than a glorified version of the Russian moneybags period.

wonga77

Apparently a Chinese second division club has bid 9 million for Jelavic. :eek:

John Terry is surely in line to receive a mad high offer in the summer

Utopia Parkway

Feck it I'm packing my boots and shinguards and off to China in the morning.

Kristopherus

wonga77 wrote: »

Apparently a Chinese second division club has bid 9 million for Jelavic. :eek:

SS News reporting that he is now close to agreeing a deal.

Francie Barrett

wonga77 wrote: »

Apparently a Chinese second division club has bid 9 million for Jelavic. :eek:

John Terry is surely in line to receive a mad high offer in the summer

West Ham chairman must be laughing. They paid £3M for him just a few months ago.

Harry Palmr

Please make an offer for Balotelli and Mignolet and Benteke and Milner and Moreno and....!

GavRedKing

Hopefully someone is a fan of a Mikel and are willing to part with any sum of cash to take him away.

A bubble like the premiership?!

Zaph

I'm surprised at the standard of players who are signing for the Chinese clubs, it's not just a bunch of old guys looking for one last pay day. But I think it says a lot about those players that they'd prefer to sacrifice ambition and the opportunity to play in better leagues for the money that's being waved under their noses. Alex Texeira is only 26 and is approaching his peak years. Does he really think that his abilities are going to improve at the same rate, if at all, playing in China than they would have if he'd gone to Liverpool and played in the EPL? In time the Chinese league may well be up there with the best of them, but it's a long way off and it's not as if these guys were getting paid peanuts in Europe and needed the money.

redzerdrog

Turan for a €100 million being reported

marklazarcovic

redzerdrog wrote:

Turan for a €100 million being reported

Where?

RedemptionZ

China has the largest middle class in the world and its predicted to continue to grow massively. Yes the majority are poor but when 10% of your population is over 100 million people it makes things like a strong football league a lot more sustainable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/11929794/Chinas-middle-class-overtakes-US-as-largest-in-the-world.html

That said, they should be putting money into producing their own homegrown world class players instead of buying imports.

redzerdrog

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Where?

China

Schwiiing

If China starts trying to produce footballers through academies like they produce their Olympic Gymnasts I shudder to think what that kind of life would be like for a kid.

UnitedIrishman

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

English national team has arguably got worse from its peak in the late 80s / early 90s since the arrival of big foreign stars.

That's a bit of a myth. The best England side of the last 20 odd years was when they lost to Argentina in 1998 or 1996 when foreign players were at their height.

Since they've brought in the rules forcing sides to have home grown players their team has steadily declined. If you bring in a lot of foreign players it raises the standard of the league and thus the players that are home based will improve to match them or drop below the requirements. Regardless the best will rise to the top. You may have less top players but they will be of a higher quality. Compare those talents (Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Rio, Lampard) to today's squad - very few if any English players would get into the German or Spanish 11 these days. Back then - a lot of them would have been.

Instead the PL has hamstrung the national team with the rule.

RobertKK

Loic Remy for €20 million is the latest, if Remy accepts he move.

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/697428179380736000

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

That's a bit of a myth. The best England side of the last 20 odd years was when they lost to Argentina in 1998 or 1996 when foreign players were at their height.

In what way was that period the height of foreign players in the PL?

There were plenty of high profile foreign players then but nowhere near the saturation of foreign players at every club that exists today. For example, it wasn't 1996 that we saw the first all-foreign team play a PL game, it was 2005.

marklazarcovic

Lavezzi too i read yesterday

UnitedIrishman

bucketybuck wrote: »

In what way was that period the height of foreign players in the PL?

There were plenty of high profile foreign players then but nowhere near the saturation of foreign players at every club that exists today. For example, it wasn't 1996 that we saw the first all-foreign team play a PL game, it was 2005.

Maybe not the height but even if you go as far as 2002. Instead what you have now is the likes of Stones being touted as going for 50m when he's nowhere near good enough for that money. If you have more foreign players, and better foreign players in the league then the standard raises. If teams are forced into a quota where they have to accomodate players then the league is naturally going to be poorer for it. And English players are now getting to the top clubs easier than before because the top clubs are forced to sign anyone that looks remotely decent.

First all-foreign team to play a PL game has nothing to do with it.

Edit: An example is in rugby in Japan. They just had their best performance ever at a WC and almost qualified for the quarters. Why? Because of the last number of years you had the likes of Sonny Bill, Francois Steyn, Bernard Foley going there and competing.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

If you have more foreign players, and better foreign players in the league then the standard raises.

And they have more foreign players in the league now than they ever did between 1996 and 2002, so what then is your point?

RedemptionZ

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Maybe not the height but even if you go as far as 2002. Instead what you have now is the likes of Stones being touted as going for 50m when he's nowhere near good enough for that money. If you have more foreign players, and better foreign players in the league then the standard raises. If teams are forced into a quota where they have to accomodate players then the league is naturally going to be poorer for it. And English players are now getting to the top clubs easier than before because the top clubs are forced to sign anyone that looks remotely decent.

First all-foreign team to play a PL game has nothing to do with it.

Have to disagree here. The problem is quite clearly in the youth systems in England, the lack of UEFA qualified coaches and coaching in general. Put a German or Spanish youth system in England and they'll get the same results. Of course that would mean a few suits at the top would lose their jobs so it'll be resisted as much as it can. Nothing to do with the homegrown rule or foreigners raising the standard of the league. Though the huge influx of foreigners does cause problems for England in their current youth setup as the national team will ultimately lose out on depth if English players are losing their places to foreigners. Could be solved though if they just improved how they produce youngsters.

Edit: An example is in rugby in Japan. They just had their best performance ever at a WC and almost qualified for the quarters. Why? Because of the last number of years you had the likes of Sonny Bill, Francois Steyn, Bernard Foley going there and competing.

Disagree again. Japan have benefited through internationally qualified players to give greater depth to their squad in positions they're traditionally weak in such as second row. Nothing really to do with the league getting stronger, it was still at a lower standard to any of the top European leagues and the S15. The league has gotten stronger with all these imports but it's having good coaches like Eddie Jones and stacking up their squad with internationally qualified 'non japanese' players that have helped them.

~Rebel~

Blatter wrote: »

I can understand the need to offer very high wages to convince players to join but I can't understand some of the transfer fees they're paying.


Jackson Martinez bombed at Atletico, yet they paid £31m for him, £6m more than Atletico paid for him in the Summer. Surely they could have negotiated a lower fee? It's almost like they are deliberately paying over the top fees in order to make a statement. I can't work it out.

Yeah, same. Given the rules in place (limited to 5 non-Chinese players per club) the fact they're moving for higher profile guys makes sense. They'll take up the bulk of their wages while their local talent gets paid a fraction, so it balances out.

But the transfer fees are just nonsensical. They're actively paying way above what they need to...with the names involved, they don't need the media attention. Jackson Martinez going to China is the story, regardless of fee, but paying at least 20% more than they need to just seems silly. Same goes for Ramirez, would have gotten him for easily a few million less.

Yeah, they're probably getting a little more media coverage than just the player going there, but its all negative, pointing out how stupid the moves are rather than celebrating a rising football behemoth. I think they'd be taken more seriously if they were bringing big names on big wages for market value. Now they're just going to get continuously fleeced - like everyone else with their own teams deadweight, i'm praying for a 20 million bid for Balotelli!

Also odd that they didn't get more work done before the European transfer window closed. Leaving it until now guarantees even more ridiculous fees, as clubs can't replace guys leaving. It's just all so weird.

SuperTortoise

When the Chinese start throwing money about they mean business, think of the 10yr Beijing olympic games plan they funded as a recent example.

I'd say all that money is being propped up by the goverment on favourable terms.

SuperTortoise

When the Chinese start throwing money about they mean business, think of the 10yr Beijing olympic games plan they funded as a recent example.

I'd say all that money is being propped up by the goverment on favourable terms.

Ulysses Gaze

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Please make an offer for Balotelli and Mignolet and Benteke and Milner and Moreno and....!

We could probably sell them the entire squad for £1billion.

Problem is, FSG would just sanction the spending on buying the entire Southampton squad. Or just the entire Club at this rate.

But at least Rodgers is not there to spend it on 11 wingers to play left back

eagle eye

If they keep bringing in the big players it's going to become a much watch league isn't it?

They would have a market for morning games over here. There are no games played in the am in an attractive league as things stand. They could break into the tv market in a big way and it that happened then it's certainly sustainable.

NIMAN

Don't think it'll take off.

Will be a league for guys past their sellby dare, looking for one final big payday.

And they will be playing with a certain amount of lower quality players in their team, a la the US League.

Kerrydude1981

Surprised Peter Odemwingie hasn't made an appearance in China

Might be the ideal hang out for Falcao as well

mikeym

Can the Chinese do me a favour and take Benteke, Enrique, Sturridge and Mignolet please.

Ajfunky

I remember reading somewhere that China had a plan in place to Win the world cup within 20 years or something like that, and that kids are being shipped off to train in essentially ' football camps' now for years on end.

Are we really surprised? This is China. The place is a greed stricken joke, using whatever industry they can find to pump money out of their public regardless of what it does to its country. Beijing gets regular bloody smog alerts where you cant go outside for days, yet they go on building factories and destroying villages for fun!

Its a shame that these young players are being lured though. You'd hardly think people would be greedy enough to take a 30% increase on what they'd already get in Europe and move to a country where they will be as far as possible from their home, culture and fans. They must be promising them some serious extras when they land.

Ajfunky

I remember reading somewhere that China had a plan in place to Win the world cup within 20 years or something like that, and that kids are being shipped off to train in essentially ' football camps' now for years on end.

Are we really surprised? This is China. The place is a greed stricken joke, using whatever industry they can find to pump money out of their public regardless of what it does to its country. Beijing gets regular bloody smog alerts where you cant go outside for days, yet they go on building factories and destroying villages for fun!

Its a shame that these young players are being lured though. You'd hardly think people would be greedy enough to take a 30% increase on what they'd already get in Europe and move to a country where they will be as far as possible from their home, culture and fans. They must be promising them some serious extras when they land.

Ulysses Gaze

Ajfunky wrote: »

I remember reading somewhere that China had a plan in place to Win the world cup within 20 years or something like that, and that kids are being shipped off to train in essentially ' football camps' now for years on end.

Are we really surprised? This is China. The place is a greed stricken joke, using whatever industry they can find to pump money out of their public regardless of what it does to its country. Beijing gets regular bloody smog alerts where you cant go outside for days, yet they go on building factories and destroying villages for fun!

Its a shame that these young players are being lured though. You'd hardly think people would be greedy enough to take a 30% increase on what they'd already get in Europe and move to a country where they will be as far as possible from their home, culture and fans. They must be promising them some serious extras when they land.

Agents will have a hand in this as well.

How much would an agent get if Hulk went to China for €90 million?

BoJack Horseman

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not even a bubble, it's just some craziness

Perhaps not.

I see it as a form of money laundering.

China is/will be up sh*t-creek in the near future and its government's powerful grip over their economy & currency will not stave off this forever.
While China has no official block on capital flight (afaik) apparently the government are very keen to avoid it at all costs to avoid a panic.

To my eyes, it is a way for very wealthy people to move money out of the country avoiding any possible clampdown from officialdom.

BoJack Horseman

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Perhaps not.

I see it as a form of money laundering.

China is/will be up sh*t-creek in the near future and its government's powerful grip over their economy & currency will not stave off this forever.
While China has no official block on capital flight (afaik) apparently the government are very keen to avoid it at all costs to avoid a panic.

To my eyes, it is a way for very wealthy people to move money out of the country avoiding any possible clampdown from officialdom.

Part of that I agree with but I don't think China will end up ****ed in the usual sense. The guys in power aren't stupid and have seen how other countries developed. They've overdeveloped in some ways but given the rate they expanded at they're quite well set for a semi-alternative economic system once things plateau rather than the West's idea of no growth being a complete disaster somehow.

Magico Gonzalez

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

That's a bit of a myth. The best England side of the last 20 odd years was when they lost to Argentina in 1998 or 1996 when foreign players were at their height.

Since they've brought in the rules forcing sides to have home grown players their team has steadily declined. If you bring in a lot of foreign players it raises the standard of the league and thus the players that are home based will improve to match them or drop below the requirements. Regardless the best will rise to the top. You may have less top players but they will be of a higher quality. Compare those talents (Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Rio, Lampard) to today's squad - very few if any English players would get into the German or Spanish 11 these days. Back then - a lot of them would have been.

Instead the PL has hamstrung the national team with the rule.

86 & 90 England teams were far better than the 98 team. Maybe you were too young to see them in action. Lampard, Beckham, Gerrard & Scholes were never successfully accomodated in the 98 side. Too many similar poieces.

96/98 was nowhere near the peak of foreign players in the league, way more now and the standard has clearly suffered. Too many u21 English players without meaningful games to get to a decent level.

Oranage2

NBA players go to China all the time to play in the Chinese basketball League all the time so having major sport stars isn't something new, last year I even watched Ronaldiho play and not even a major city. Some of these Chinese guys are ridiculously rich and It's all about out doing the Jones, football is becoming very popular, but when these bosses get bored then it'll all die off whenever that will be.

~Rebel~

Oranage2 wrote: »

NBA players go to China all the time to play in the Chinese basketball League all the time so having major sport stars isn't something new, last year I even watched Ronaldiho play and not even a major city. Some of these Chinese guys are ridiculously rich and It's all about out doing the Jones, football is becoming very popular, but when these bosses get bored then it'll all die off whenever that will be.

Does baseball have a similar player movement?

Also, how does their league system work - like, in the MLS when players come over, part of that money comes from the league itself as it boosts the recognition of the league. Is there a central fund in Chinese football that's helping out with these big moves? or is it all just tycoon's funding their own team?

Would be interesting to see how Chinese football changes from your perspective over the next while since you're on the ground there.