BMW theft & key cloning

Elessar

There has been a spate of BMW robberies around my area recently, and the thieves are not even stealing the car keys. They just break a window, connect to the OBD port with a laptop and clone a key, and off they go. Owning a good spec BMW myself (uk import, 2009 reg), I'm a little concerned.

I've read online that in 2012/2013 BMW had a software fix available but I can't find any more info. Does anyone know what software version it is and is there a way to tell if it was applied to your car? I have the iDrive. If not can I go to BMW here and get it applied?

mickdw

Elessar wrote: »

There has been a spate of BMW robberies around my area recently, and the thieves are not even stealing the car keys. They just break a window, connect to the OBD port with a laptop and clone a key, and off they go. Owning a good spec BMW myself (uk import, 2009 reg), I'm a little concerned.

I've read online that in 2012/2013 BMW had a software fix available but I can't find any more info. Does anyone know what software version it is and is there a way to tell if it was applied to your car? I have the iDrive. If not can I go to BMW here and get it applied?

I read somewhere that a quick and easy solution was to put a switch in line of one of the obd connectors wires.

dubal

BMW upgraded my software a couple of years ago, for free in the end.

The other problem is they still need to break into the car to find out it has been done.

BMW UK did it has standard, tried to argue it wasn't necessary here as there were no known cases in Ireland.

Dubal

Wibbs

It's not just BMW's that are vulnerable to these kind of "hacks". BMW themselves noted this in their official statement that finally admitted the issue. I personally know of an Audi that was taken and a mate's Mercedes that was opened and rifled through, but not taken, both without the keys. IIRC the BMW's were/are easier to take in this manner because the internal ultrasonic coverage had gaps so the scum could break the window and the alarm wouldn't sound.

Personally I'd be fitting a third party secondary alarm system(a good quality one, not the 100 quid fitted in an hour yokes). That adds an extra layer of effort for the scum and interrupts their practiced routine*, so they're more likely to go for the cars that don't have that.




*research has shown that there are quite set routines to crimes of this nature. Burglary too. In an empty house burglars follow a plan, nearly always going to the bedrooms first as that's were people feel safe and feel safe leaving valuables.

StereoSound

You would think the days of high end car theft with factory immobilisers etc were long gone. Maybe its not a bad idea to start going abit old skool with car security and buy yourself a big chain and padlock to wrap around the steering wheel. Might look out of place on a new car these days but they will be as hard to break as they were in the 80s when your neighbour with the Sierra was using one.

gctest50

StereoSound wrote: »

You would think the days of high end car theft with factory immobilisers etc were long gone. Maybe its not a bad idea to start going abit old skool with car security and buy yourself a big chain and padlock to wrap around the steering wheel. Might look out of place on a new car these days but they will be as hard to break as they were in the 80s when your neighbour with the Sierra was using one.

steering wheels are thin metal so they'll collapse if you crash

bmstuff

No such thing as a software update on E series that prevents key cloning on BMW dont waste your time asking dealer or else. The software is only available from F series.

Only solutions for E series are obd port relocation or proper alarm with dme/dde connectivity that will prevent the car from starting without key fob. Or a cut off switch etc.

Wibbs

gctest50 wrote: »

steering wheels are thin metal so they'll collapse if you crash

+1. Except for the huge yokes that encase the whole wheel, wheel locks are next to useless. You can bypass them in seconds. A chain is even easier. Same for those gear/handbrake locks. Might stop the more stupid inbred scum, but not any of them with any practice and brains.

Skatedude

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. Except for the huge yokes that encase the whole wheel, wheel locks are next to useless. You can bypass them in seconds. A chain is even easier. Same for those gear/handbrake locks. Might stop the more stupid inbred scum, but not any of them with any practice and brains.

I agree that the locks are not too strong, but the idea is to make them steal the other bmw parked down the road instead of mine because it dosent have a steering lock while mine does.

the_syco

I suppose it comes down to how much the car is worth, versus how easy it is to get it. If it's going to be used for a joyride, the car without the steering lock will probably get stolen.

But if it's a high value target that thieves like, then it'd be best to put a tracker in the back of the car powered by the registration plate lamp; as far away from the cigarette lighter as possible.

CathalDublin

https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.shannon.9469/posts/1572869606339578?fref=nf

Is this what the lads are up to in this video taken in clonee last night?
Whats the chopping board all about?

honreal

CathalDublin wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.shannon.9469/posts/1572869606339578?fref=nf

Is this what the lads are up to in this video taken in clonee last night?
Whats the chopping board all about?

Im sure somebody on here knows the method used. thats bizzare to see the chopping board and somebody in the comments mentions a slinghsot

CathalDublin

honreal wrote: »

Im sure somebody on here knows the method used. thats bizzare to see the chopping board and somebody in the comments mentions a slinghsot

you can see the slingshot at 30seconds which they obviously broke the window with.
Are they just shielding the light from the indicators with the shopping board or are they preparing dinner on the go?
If its the later I'm impressed

Trojan

I'm guessing the slingshot is simply to get good force to break the glass. What's the chopping board for? He's waving it around like it's blocking a camera view or maybe trying to reflect a signal or something.

Wibbs

The sooner more of these scum surprise a shotgun owner in the middle of the night who lets off "warning shots" in the direction, the better. Utter scum.

Special Circumstances

Trojan wrote: »

What's the chopping board for? He's waving it around like it's blocking a camera view or maybe trying to reflect a signal or something.

Some kinda range extender for the owners key would be my bet. Would like to get a look at one.

irish bloke

Anyone know out of interest what software package they are using to clone the key with?

Atlantic Dawn

Real professional operation, arrived and gone in less than 3.5minutes, no noise at all except the ODB connector beep, all hand signals given. Not a good advert for "That Feeling". I'd say a mid 80's Civic couldn't be broken in to, hotwired and driven away in less than 3.5 minutes.

Why are insurance companies still providing cover for these cars?

irish bloke

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Real professional operation, arrived and gone in less than 3.5minutes, no noise at all except the ODB connector beep, all hand signals given. Not a good advert for "That Feeling". I'd say a mid 80's Civic couldn't be broken in to, hotwired and driven away in less than 3.5 minutes.

Why are insurance companies still providing cover for these cars?

Mid 80's Civics or any Jap car for that matter, didnt even need to be hotwired.
Most of them could be entered and started by just wiggling a worn down Toyota key in the locks...

CathalDublin

I think aftermarket alarm might be the future...again

Wibbs

irish bloke wrote: »

Mid 80's Civics or any Jap car for that matter, didnt even need to be hotwired.
Most of them could be entered and started by just wiggling a worn down Toyota key in the locks...

Yep. With a few I won't mention up to the turn of the millennium you can pop the bonnet from outside the car(thereby bypassing the usual crap 3rd party alarm "install"), one I can think of you can pop the rear hatch from outside. The only car I had stolen by scum was a 90's Jap car and luckily I got it back with little enough damage. Anyway I was seriously pissed off so looked at how easy it was to steal. Me as a rank amateur could get it opened and started while bypassing the crappy alarm in under five minutes. So as is my wont I got nerdy and obsessive to see how I could stop, delay, misdirect any further attempts. And I did. My current car also of that vintage will require a flatbed to steal. Even then the alarm will be going apeshít as they try to get it onto said flatbed and would take a decent auto electrician many hours to remove the security. Even if they take my keys it will be a pain. You can never stop them entirely of course, but I can't stand the "ah shure if they really want it, they'll take it" mindset. Yes, but you can make it as difficult as possible for them.

CathalDublin wrote: »

I think aftermarket alarm might be the future...again

Yep and a good one, properly fitted, well hidden that kills at least two required circuits. And don't put a sticker advertising what alarm you have in the window.

Special Circumstances

In this case I don't think they are cloning a key.
My gut feeling is a relay attack - some clever electronics to start the car with the owners own key.

A new key is created later perhaps.

Looks like a similar method in this video, all the repeater gadgetry in one bag.
http://bestride.com/blog/urban-myth-you-cant-protect-your-car-from-thieves-by-putting-the-key-in-the-freezer/25413/

frozenfrozen

put in a sticker for a different good alarm to the one you have fitted.. so they would be dissuaded by that and if they do their homework and go for it anyway, they're messed up trying to counteract the wrong alarm system.


I think the way it works is the EWS / key auth computer thing only has space for 10 keys, and there is a replacement procedure for this whereby the EWS is started from afresh and their own key is given the correct code. and then everything else is set to accept this new ews

EWS checks against K bus to see if the car is first of all automatic and then if it's in park or neutral and it checks against DDU/DME or whatever it's called to see if the rolling codes between the key, EWS, and DDU/DME are all in order, if all of this is ok then it'll start, and it will be ok because they've just coded them all to like their new key

The likes of an AK90 / AK 300 whatever else they're called can add keys but I reckon they are not adding or cloning keys they are doing an 'EWS replacement' type deal

relocated obd port, with a fake obd port that sets off the alarm could be a good way to throw their routine


all they're doing at the moment is breaking a window and plugging a device into the obd port which automagically probably does a variation of what I said above

Wibbs

Special Circumstances wrote: »

In this case I don't think they are cloning a key.
My gut feeling is a relay attack - some clever electronics to start the car with the owners own key.

With the relay attack though the first scum wouldn't have to smash the drivers door class to get in as it would be open already?

frozenfrozen wrote: »

put in a sticker for a different good alarm to the one you have fitted.. so they would be dissuaded by that and if they do their homework and go for it anyway, they're messed up trying to counteract the wrong alarm system.

Maybe FF, though the majority of alarm systems work the same way and the majority are fitted the same way and in the same place too. A couple of things that you could try would be put the warning led somewhere out of the ordinary. Not the usual steering wheel column, blank button on the dash type places. The Dome light for example or the base of the rear view mirror. This shows the pro scum that it's not their usual prey(extending the LED wires is a doddle). At some point between the alarm brain and the LED wrap the LED wires around something solid, so that pulling on the LED doesn't pull and give away the alarm brain module. Hide the latter somewhere other the usual under the dash inches away from the ignition/steering column. Behind the glovebox another usual place. Put it behind a panel that requires breaking out the tools to get to. If it's a pain in the hole to install it'll be a pain in the hole to bypass.

Note, most car alarm fitters won't go to these lengths. Why? It's not that they can't, or don't want to, but it's their job and time is money and most owners simply won't pay for their time and expertise. I saw that back in the 90's at the height of the modding craze with guys I knew who thought little of shoving over a grands worth of ICE in the car, many hundreds on wheels, engine mods and the like who bitched and moaned about paying 150 quid for an alarm install to protect their gear and the car. A proper install could take the guts of a day's work.

Make sure the alarm kills two circuits at least. OBD port would be a given and fuel, or another vital system. For bonus points extend one cutouff beyond the cabin, under the bonnet. Get an alarm that can be made to automatically arm after a minute or whatever. Bury the siren(battery backup if poss) not the usual under the bonnet in plain sight bolted to the bulkhead with a self tapper. Stick it behind an inside panel even. 110Db going off inside the cabin will do the scum's heads in and can still be easily heard outside.

Sensors? Impact sensors I've found are a PITA. Constantly give off false alarms. Third party ultrasonics can be as bad. I put a proximity sensor on mine, but by god it took some tweaking but is grand now. The glass break sensors aren't bad and rarely false alarm and would be a good thing with the break glass, access OBD port trick. Tilt sensors are good and rarely false either and stop scum from jacking your car to nick your wheels(which should have locknuts), or lifting it onto a tow truck.

Add in layers like separate anti hijack and mechanical deterrents like pedal locks. See if your petrol cap comes in a lockable version. Stymies them filling it up if they do take it. Layers add more time and pain and make the scum more wary of being discovered and caught. Anti hijack also means if they get your keys they won't get far. Trackers are OK and have recovered cars and insurance companies sometimes insist on them for certain cars and if you have the cash then great, but first try to stop the scum at point one.

relocated obd port, with a fake obd port that sets off the alarm could be a good way to throw their routine

That's nice and evil FF. Like your thinking. As you say, throw their routine. Challenge their practiced comfort zone. There will be enough cars far easier to steal and they'll go after those. I actually briefly knew a reformed car thief(he ended up in social work trying to help other young lads so fair enough). He started "joyriding" but then went more "pro" as there was big money in spare parts and few buyers, even garages asked questions(this was back in the early noughties) And I got a few ideas and insights from him. He did say that pros will pick the easy targets. It's a job. A very defended car is just not worth the effort for them in most cases. They don't see it as some sort of challenge. It's a pain. They can even have some grudging respect for the owner who sees it as more than "just a car". Joyriders can be very different as they can be vindictive and may vandalise the car out of spite like the mental toddlers they are. They don't get the pleasure of driving it away though.

Special Circumstances

Wibbs wrote: »

With the relay attack though the first scum wouldn't have to smash the drivers door class to get in as it would be open already?

Does that model BMW come with passive keyless entry?
Or good old press-a-button?

D3V!L

Their bikes also come with keyless as an optional extra, makes me wonder how safe it is.

Ducati has the same system but can be bypassed with a PIN !!!

Megahead

Elessar wrote: »

There has been a spate of BMW robberies around my area recently, and the thieves are not even stealing the car keys. They just break a window, connect to the OBD port with a laptop and clone a key, and off they go. Owning a good spec BMW myself (uk import, 2009 reg), I'm a little concerned.

I've read online that in 2012/2013 BMW had a software fix available but I can't find any more info. Does anyone know what software version it is and is there a way to tell if it was applied to your car? I have the iDrive. If not can I go to BMW here and get it applied?

Without being insulting OP, I seriously doubt you will have to worry about your 09 car being a target in all fairness. They steal mostly high end and newer cars like F10's, A6's etc so I wouldn't worry.

Megahead

irish bloke wrote: »

Anyone know out of interest what software package they are using to clone the key with?

Ooh, suspicious question

Special Circumstances

Megahead wrote: »

Without being insulting OP, I seriously doubt you will have to worry about your 09 car being a target in all fairness. They steal mostly high end and newer cars like F10's, A6's etc so I wouldn't worry.

They'll steal what's easy to steal.

Synode

Did that car have an alarm? Would it not have gone off once he was in the vehicle

Wibbs

Special Circumstances wrote: »

They'll steal what's easy to steal.

Exactly. An 09 BMW has a fair chunk of change in spares in it and by stealing it it's "free". I'll bet if Elessar decided in a fit of madness to strip and part out his Beemer on donedeal he'd get a fair few quid in the end. How much is a running secondhand engine from a legitimate scrappers for one of them? A full interior? Gearbox, running gear etc. Plenty of reasons to target a nicely specced 09 BMW. Look at that stolen and recovered Facebook page. Not so many "high end" cars there at all. Lots of basic Opels and Renaults and Fords, family cars and the like. Naturally as because there are more of them, more of them require parts, which means more scumbags will buy and sell them. If anything targeting something like a Yaris with a child seat is less risky than some special edition Audi. That's before we get to joyriding scum that will no doubt have this tech and these techniques filter down to them and a nicely specced 09 Beemer would be very tempting. There's also the trend factor. When one type of car is found to be vulnerable and a set technique is discovered to steal one they get stolen in greater numbers. Honda Civics of all engine sizes were "fashionable" for a while among the scum. 90's Toyota Starlets were being regularly stolen for the same reason.

jimgoose

IIRC the '90s Ford systems, as also used by the Jag S-Type, were considered pretty secure.

Phil.x

Very cheap tool, I'm sure if you bought this and had a bmw you could work out how to program a blank key.


http://m.ebay.ie/itm/BMW-HIT-2-01-CAS1-PRO-Hitag2-programmer-for-BMW-Scanner-2-0-1-2-01-/272225669074?nav=SEARCH

JustTheOne

That breadboard was a transmitter.

It amplifies the signal from the keyless start button in the car into the owners house to the keyless fob and starts the engine.

Available online for as cheap 17 dollars I read.

Phil.x

JustTheOne wrote: »

That breadboard was a transmitter.

It amplifies the signal from the keyless start button in the car into the owners house to the keyless fob and starts the engine.

Available online for as cheap 17 dollars I read.

But the keyless fob doesn't start the car it only openes it.

JustTheOne

Phil.x wrote: »

But the keyless fob doesn't start the car it only openes it.

Are you sure?

I thought there is those fobs for starting the car with the push button thing?

Once the fob gives the signal you just push the button.

Falcon L

Phil.x wrote: »

But the keyless fob doesn't start the car it only openes it.

No, on some cars it also enables the car to start when the start button in the car is pushed.

Call me Al

Why did he break the window first then if he was able to to open the car with the breadboard/transmitter?

Elessar

Megahead wrote: »

Without being insulting OP, I seriously doubt you will have to worry about your 09 car being a target in all fairness. They steal mostly high end and newer cars like F10's, A6's etc so I wouldn't worry.

I don't agree at all. Plenty of 08/09 cars are being targeted. Lots of them are the bigger German marques i.e. BMW, VW, Audi. Only a while back a neighbour on the same road as me foiled a key fishing attempt on his 2005 GTI. You'd wonder what the point is of buying a nice car when sh*t like this happens. Only yesterday I was talking to a work friend who loves his cars (GTIs especially) but mentioned he wouldn't buy one anywhere near new as it 'would only be stolen'. I almost think he's right!

Falcon L

JustTheOne wrote: »

That breadboard was a transmitter.

It amplifies the signal from the keyless start button in the car into the owners house to the keyless fob and starts the engine.

Available online for as cheap 17 dollars I read.

I'm completely in favour of having an open discussion on what the techniques and tools are that are being used by the scum. This way we can be informed about what we need to do to defeat them.

For example: if this breadboard thing can pick up the signal from the key and amplify it, then we need to know how to stop our key signal from being picked up. There are products you can buy to keep your key in to stop the signal being broadcast. Maybe just a simple tin box to keep your key in at night would be an answer.

Tell us where this breadboard can be bought and we can do our own research on it. The scum already know where to get them, obviously.

Lets not be afraid to discuss what the scum are doing. We need to be informed.

This being Boards, I can see the mods clamping down on such discussion. Can I point out that any discussion along these lines is not educating the scum on how to do it, they know already. What we need to do is educate ourselves in order to defeat them.

JustTheOne

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm completely in favour of having an open discussion on what the techniques and tools are that are being used by the scum. This way we can be informed about what we need to do to defeat them.

For example: if this breadboard thing can pick up the signal from the key and amplify it, then we need to know how to stop our key signal from being picked up. There are products you can buy to keep your key in to stop the signal being broadcast. Maybe just a simple tin box to keep your key in at night would be an answer.

Tell us where this breadboard can be bought and we can do our own research on it. The scum already know where to get them, obviously.

Lets not be afraid to discuss what the scum are doing. We need to be informed.

This being Boards, I can see the mods clamping down on such discussion. Can I point out that any discussion along these lines is not educating the scum on how to do it, they know already. What we need to do is educate ourselves in order to defeat them.

I found all that out from a simple Google of breadboard robbing cars, after watching that clonee video!

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2909589/microsoft-subnet/thieves-can-use-17-power-amplifier-to-break-into-cars-with-remote-keyless-systems.html

I'm pretty sure the thieves won't be getting information from boards.ie!

JustTheOne

Call me Al wrote: »

Why did he break the window first then if he was able to to open the car with the breadboard/transmitter?

No the transmitter starts the car. The button on the fob opens the door.

Gumbo

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Does that model BMW come with passive keyless entry?
Or good old press-a-button?

Phil.x wrote: »

But the keyless fob doesn't start the car it only openes it.

JustTheOne wrote: »

Are you sure?

I thought there is those fobs for starting the car with the push button thing?

Once the fob gives the signal you just push the button.

Falcon L wrote: »

No, on some cars it also enables the car to start when the start button in the car is pushed.

On the F10, keyless go is standard but you still have to be close to the car to press the open button n the key fob. Once opened, then you can get n and start the car without having to do anything with the key.

Comfort acces is another option. Leave the key in your pocket, once close enough, you can place your hand on a small sensor on the door handle and open it, and again drive away without touching the key.

Wibbs

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm completely in favour of having an open discussion on what the techniques and tools are that are being used by the scum. This way we can be informed about what we need to do to defeat them.

+1000. That's certainly how I increased my car security. I read all I could about how to steal such a car from every source I could find, including some scummy ones. By knowing how it was done, I could put roadblocks in the way, divert them, throw their practiced routine, slow them right down etc and hopefully make them bugger off back under the rock they crawled from..

There are products you can buy to keep your key in to stop the signal being broadcast. Maybe just a simple tin box to keep your key in at night would be an answer.

A tin box wouldn't do it. You need a faraday cage essentially. And contrary to some of the reports out there a fridge isn't one. It might attenuate the signal, but… I can tell you what is one; your microwave oven. That's how you can cook your boil in the bag spuds without cooking yourself in the process. I'd reckon an antistatic bag might work?

What we need to do is educate ourselves in order to defeat them.

So much this. Take that theft video above. A third party alarm, even a very basic one would have stopped them. It would have certainly alerted the household and because it would come as a surprise the chances are they would have run away.

In one way it might be good to think "old school", pre built in immobiliser tech. The new tech means that when a weakness is found it's repeatable and pretty easily so as every car has the same setup in the same place. In the "old days" the pro faced with a well installed Clifford or somesuch, would have had to know far more about car electrics and would have needed more time to defeat it and he couldn't rely on finding the same stuff in the same place on every car. No two cars were alike.

Now some may say that far more cars were stolen back in them days and that's true, but IMH the main reason was a) most didn't bother with much security and b) when they did it was as cheap as possible. I was that soldier. Some basic Cobra alarm very sloppily installed for feck all and I was able to bypass it. The alarm wasn't the problem, the install was. I'd rather a 50 quid ebay chinese special properly fitted, than a 1000 quids worth of Clifford not properly fitted.

Hellrazer

Back in the 90s I used to wire a simple flick switch into every car I owned.Either in line on the live to the ignition circuit or the fuel cut off which ever was easier to get to.
Then hide the switch somewhere ..say in the boot or glovebox.
.If you wanted a second layer of security then put 2 switches one on each circuit.
I never had a car stolen despite a few attempts.
They could get into the car,hot wire it but if they didn't know where the switch was then there was no way that car was going anywhere.
Less than 2 quid and more secure than any alarm in opinion.

Hellrazer

On another note.You can buy fingerprint scanners to replace a car key for less than 100 euros.

Why manufacturers don't install these is beyond me.
You can program up to 10 people into these and if you sell the car you can give the new owner access to the system so they can update the new users.
I reckon it would put a halt to most car thefts unless the scum decided to chop a finger off to steal the car!!!

Special Circumstances

kceire wrote: »

On the F10, keyless go is standard but you still have to be close to the car to press the open button n the key fob. Once opened, then you can get n and start the car without having to do anything with the key.

Comfort acces is another option. Leave the key in your pocket, once close enough, you can place your hand on a small sensor on the door handle and open it, and again drive away without touching the key.

And this is exactly what happened here. Keyless go. Whether the car had comfort access or not, the thieves assumed it didn't (or their equipment can't handle comfort access for some reason). So they have to break in to start the process, but they use the owners own key to start the car by relaying the signals. IMHO.

Wibbs

Hellrazer wrote: »

Back in the 90s I used to wire a simple flick switch into every car I owned.Either in line on the live to the ignition circuit or the fuel cut off which ever was easier to get to.
Then hide the switch somewhere ..say in the boot or glovebox.
.If you wanted a second layer of security then put 2 switches one on each circuit.
I never had a car stolen despite a few attempts.
They could get into the car,hot wire it but if they didn't know where the switch was then there was no way that car was going anywhere.
Less than 2 quid and more secure than any alarm in opinion.

A kill switch or two is a great idea alright. Certainly far better than nothing and better than those arm things that go across the steering wheel. Problem with them is kill switches tend to be in the same places in certain/most cars(the glovebox and boot would be the first places I'd look, EDIT was going to add more but...). It'll nearly always stop the joyrider alright, the casual scum, but the pros can bypass them easily enough.(again was going to add some info, but…) Plus minus an alarm waking the dead at three in the morning they have time. Time is the one thing you have to rob them of. They're a fantastic layer alright and as you say dirt cheap and should be one of the first things to try. Plus actual pros are rare enough, it's mostly general scum and with these repeatable attacks like the key fob extenders even the general scum can play at gone in 60 seconds. Could one be wired into a modern canbus setup or would that give the electrics a fit? Putting one on the OBD port would be an obvious choice.

On alarm sirens; people tend to ignore them, but really so long as you hear it it's doing the job. What I've done on a couple of cars is throw a relay on the alarm sounding circuit that sounds the car horn. I can tell you with both the siren and the horn going off that gets everyone's attention. I knew one lad who put a strobe light in his dome light and wired that to the alarm output. Effin thing was like close encounters of the third kind mixed with a Chemical Brothers gig when it went off.

digiman

Special Circumstances wrote: »

And this is exactly what happened here. Keyless go. Whether the car had comfort access or not, the thieves assumed it didn't (or their equipment can't handle comfort access for some reason). So they have to break in to start the process, but they use the owners own key to start the car by relaying the signals. IMHO.

How do they keep going in the car when they no longer have the key though? Do they clone the key that quickly?

An alarm pops up on the dash when the car is started but the key is no longer inside it. I never tried it to see if it stops the engine though. I guess it should really.

Special Circumstances

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm completely in favour of having an open discussion on what the techniques and tools are that are being used by the scum. This way we can be informed about what we need to do to defeat them.

For example: if this breadboard thing can pick up the signal from the key and amplify it, then we need to know how to stop our key signal from being picked up. There are products you can buy to keep your key in to stop the signal being broadcast. Maybe just a simple tin box to keep your key in at night would be an answer.

Tell us where this breadboard can be bought and we can do our own research on it. The scum already know where to get them, obviously.

Lets not be afraid to discuss what the scum are doing. We need to be informed.

This being Boards, I can see the mods clamping down on such discussion. Can I point out that any discussion along these lines is not educating the scum on how to do it, they know already. What we need to do is educate ourselves in order to defeat them.

As you mentioned already, you can buy little bags to put keys or wallets (and bank cards) in. Easy enough to test if their effectiveness as you can probably push any buttons without opening them. Effectively yeah they are the same as a tin box, fridge, microwave. None of these are complete Faraday cage barriers, but they will all attenuate the signals to greater or lesser degrees.

Third party alarm would be a good idea.

Special Circumstances

digiman wrote: »

How do they keep going in the car when they no longer have the key though? Do they clone the key that quickly?

An alarm pops up on the dash when the car is started but the key is no longer inside it. I never tried it to see if it stops the engine though. I guess it should really.

I don't own one of these. Still back in the turn a key in a barrel technology land.

My opinion is that they are not cloning a key there and then, but that they can start the car and continue driving until they turn the engine off. Safety hazard for the ecu to arbitrarily shut it down because you "dropped your key in the car park before joining the motorway", or "the key got hidden behind some metal foil in your shopping and the car can't see it anymore"