Michael Collins Re-release

weadick

Michael Collins to get a nationwide re-release for it's 20th anniversary.

http://m.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0122/762293-michael-collins/

Though deeply flawed, I think this film has aged well and I always find myself drawn into watching it when it is on.

What are peoples memories of this films original release? Anybody on here one of the thousands of extras?

BoJack Horseman

It was pretty good.

why was Julia Roberts cast?
was it to raise the profile abroad?

weadick

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It was pretty good.

why was Julia Roberts cast?
was it to raise the profile abroad?

Apparently she asked Jordan if she could be in it.

It would actually be a lot better if she wasn't in it.

weadick

Mod would it be possible to get this thread moved to history/heritage

branie2

I hope it comes to Blu-Ray afterwards

guitarguy2112

branie2 wrote: »

I hope it comes to Blu-Ray afterwards

It is according to the BBFC. This month they've classified 3 new bonus supplements:

MICHAEL COLLINS - IN CONVERSATION WITH NEIL JORDAN was classified 12 on 05/01/2016
MICHAEL COLLINS - DELETED SCENES was classified 15 on 14/01/2016
MICHAEL COLLINS [Additional material,Audio commentary] was classified 15 on 20/01/2016

Although the film itself hasn't yet been resubmitted, new bbfcinsight (content advisory) has been added as 'strong violence, strong language'

branie2

It's my all-time favourite film

lukin

When it came out on DVD all it had was just the film, no extras, nothing. I bought it and was very disappointed.

endacl

branie2 wrote: »

It's my all-time favourite film

You've just seen the one then?

Snake Plisken

Yeah hope it gets the works on Blu-Ray, decent transfer HD 5.1 soundtrack and commentary track would be nice with Jordan and Neeson, doubt we will see that though.

branie2

lukin wrote: »

When it came out on DVD all it had was just the film, no extras, nothing. I bought it and was very disappointed.

There were extras on side 2 of the dvd

Pretzill

As an extra on it - I have fond memories of the movie from that perspective - probably a lot to do with the fact I was twenty years younger!
Lovely set, great group of locals, and I was seen on film! My abiding memory is my Mam and Dad (both since passed) going to see it in the cinema at the time and them being very vocal when they saw me large as life!

Fleawuss

A great movie. Not a history text book but accurate enough to sicken the Dev groupies every time it's mentioned.

LordSutch

weadick wrote: »

Though deeply flawed, I think this film has aged well and I always find myself drawn into watching it when it is on.

Deeply flawed, you can say that again! Its a good auld anti English romp, on a par with Braveheart. Great fun, great viewing, but hardly factual

I realise that RTEs 'Rebellion' isnt historically water tight either, but I suspect its (Anglo-Irish) complexities are a lot closer to the truth, than the Hollywood'esque Michael Collins.

PS: Al the British soldiers, I mean all the British soldiers in Michael Collins have 'English' accents which destroys the context of the conflict from the off. Its a great film though.

weadick

LordSutch wrote: »

Deeply flawed, you can say that again! Its a good auld anti English romp, on a par with Braveheart. Great fun, great viewing, but hardly factual

I realise that RTEs 'Rebellion' isnt historically water tight either, but I suspect its (Anglo-Irish) complexities are a lot closer to the truth, than the Hollywood'esque Michael Collins.

PS: Al the British soldiers, I mean all the British soldiers in Michael Collins have 'English' accents which destroys the context of the conflict from the off. Its a great film though.

There aren't that many scenes with British soldiers/Tans though, most of it is the IRA vs the RIC/DMP and Civil War. It had potential to be a great film but I think Jordan got carried away with trying to pitch it to a US audience.

Rebellion is probably slightly more accurate (I wouldn't say there's much in it) but my god it's boring. Taking liberty with history for the sake of drama is fine if the end justifies the means. I'd rather watch paint dry than watch that Rebellion tripe again.

Arghus

Ah I remember fondly how thrilled we all were in fourth class, back when it was first released.

There was a special dispensation made by the then fairly conservative film classification honchos to permit the youngsters of Ireland to see the movie, despite it's violent content, which was defintely worthy of a fifteen certificate of the time. The argument being that it was an important account of a pivotal time in Irish history, even after allowing for the presence of Julia Roberts, and sure didn't the youth of the land have a right to know what a hames Hollywood makes of it all, begod! God, sure isn't it their own history!

God bless their patriotism.

I don't remember myself or my peers being overly concerned with the films veracity to historical fact or even having that much of a clue about what was going on in a narrative sense a great deal of the time, but I'll never forget Michael Collins as a movie going experience.

Because it taught me about the past and made the contents of my school books come alive for me in ways unimagined?

Not at all: it was my introduction to proper big screen movie violence. And it was potent stuff. I'd seen my fair share of bullets and blood on the TV, but it was a different level of magnitude altogether to see men headbutted (my first hint at the raw animal power of Neeson, something I would learn to love and venerate into adulthood), lynched, strangled, shot-dead at point blank range and - most memorably of all - turned into human firelighters. And to see it all, in what felt like, several glorious stories of height, surrounded by young lads of similar levels of giddy estastic idiocy, whooping and hollering like a demented football crowd at every single burst squib... This was history we could get behind!

You know when you look back at childhood and you think wasn't it great how stupid and innocent we were at times, well that, for me, was one of those times. And all for the glory and with the blessing of Ireland. Mighty craic. So I'm all in favour of a re-release, despite all the flaws my now adult mind can find with the film. Sure, it's more for the kids anyways!

weadick

Arghus wrote: »

Ah I remember fondly how thrilled we all were in fourth class, back when it was first released.

There was a special dispensation made by the then fairly conservative film classification honchos to permit the youngsters of Ireland to see the movie, despite it's violent content, which was defintely worthy of a fifteen certificate of the time. The argument being that it was an important account of a pivotal time in Irish history, even after allowing for the presence of Julia Roberts, and sure didn't the youth of the land have a right to know what a hames Hollywood makes of it all, begod! God, sure isn't it their own history!

God bless their patriotism.

I don't remember myself or my peers being overly concerned with the films veracity to historical fact or even having that much of a clue about what was going on in a narrative sense a great deal of the time, but I'll never forget Michael Collins as a movie going experience.

Because it taught me about the past and made the contents of my school books come alive for me in ways unimagined?

Not at all: it was my introduction to proper big screen movie violence. And it was potent stuff. I'd seen my fair share of bullets and blood on the TV, but it was a different level of magnitude altogether to see men headbutted (my first hint at the raw animal power of Neeson, something I would learn to love and venerate into adulthood), lynched, strangled, shot-dead at point blank range and - most memorably of all - turned into human firelighters. And to see it all, in what felt like, several glorious stories of height, surrounded by young lads of similar levels of giddy estastic idiocy, whooping and hollering like a demented football crowd at every single burst squib... This was history we could get behind!

You know when you look back at childhood and you think wasn't it great how stupid and innocent we were at times, well that, for me, was one of those times. And all for the glory and with the blessing of Ireland. Mighty craic. So I'm all in favour of a re-release, despite all the flaws my now adult mind can find with the film. Sure, it's more for the kids anyways!

That's one of the best reviews I've ever read!

charlie_says

Hahahah thanks for that

branie2

I'm looking forward to listening to Neil Jordan's commentary on the Blu-ray

MfMan

Truly terrible film. Fell between 2 stools - not accurate enough to be historically relevant, not exciting enough to be a good action movie. Neeson, as he's prone to do in bad flicks, hams it up wildly. Rickman (RIP) as usual a saving grace but the writers with his one-dimensional Dev didn't do him any favours. Not even Charles Dance and Ian McElhinney were sufficient compensations. And then we have Julia....

syklops

lukin wrote: »

When it came out on DVD all it had was just the film, no extras, nothing. I bought it and was very disappointed.

When it came out on DVD it was just the film, no extras, no pointless interviews. I was delighted.

Its about as accurate as braveheart but its an enjoyable movie and from what I've read about Collins I thought Neeson played him well.

LuckyLloyd

It's a great sweeping epic. Such things are always historically flawed, but I feel like it has held up very well as a film over the years. Any comments of it being poorly made and unexciting don't pass muster imo - the thing won the Golden Lion and has scored well on opinion aggregators. I'd go see it on the big screen.

branie2

It also moved people to tears as well, if I remember rightly

weadick

branie2 wrote: »

It also moved people to tears as well, if I remember rightly

I remember hearing that alright.

I was one of the few people in the country that didn't see it in the cinema I'd say. It was more like a national event than a movie release.

MfMan

branie2 wrote: »

It also moved people to tears as well, if I remember rightly

Moves me to tears, but not in the way you might think!

Everlong1

God be with the days when Liam Neeson made decent movies. The Mission, Schindler's List, Michael Collins....now he's content with any old shi*e like De Niro.

Arghus

Everlong1 wrote: »

God be with the days when Liam Neeson made decent movies. The Mission, Schindler's List, Michael Collins....now he's content with any old shi*e like De Niro.

Have no fear, he's wrapping up filming a movie with Martin Scorcese as we speak!

Mycroft H

I'd a copy that was a funny dual side DVD. Why was that? High birate? Never had another flim like it.

Sad Professor

Trivia:

The musical cue that plays over the funeral at the end was originally written (based on Moby's "God Moving Over the Face of the Water") for the final scene of Heat but Mann rejected it. So Goldenthal slotted it into Michael Collins instead.

Snake Plisken

Mycroft H wrote: »

I'd a copy that was a funny dual side DVD. Why was that? High birate? Never had another flim like it.

No that was in the days before dual. Layer DVD's they couldn't fit the movie on one side, so it was pressed on both sides bit of a pain turning it over mid movie.

weadick

Sad Professor wrote: »

Trivia:

The musical cue that plays over the funeral at the end was originally written (based on Moby's "God Moving Over the Face of the Water") for the final scene of Heat but Mann rejected it. So Goldenthal slotted it into Michael Collins instead.

Think its only Oscar nomination was for the music, which is stunning. I'd imagine Jordan and co thought they would be picking up plenty of gongs when they were making it!

lukin

branie2 wrote: »

There were extras on side 2 of the dvd

I think I bought the two-sided DVD that someone else referred to earlier. That had just the movie split over two sides. You had to turn the DVD over to play the second part. If there was a DVD version with special features it must have ben released after the one I bought.
On the film itself I enjoyed it at the time it was released as it was very entertaining but I see it in a different light now as I found out about all the historical inaccuracies in it.

1. Harry Boland was not killed in the manner depicted in the film.
2. It gives the impression the treaty negotations "gave up the north" (Harry Boland says this to Collins in the film). Not so. The partition of Ireland was created by the Government of Ireland Act 1920 (the year before the treaty).
3. De Valera is shown to be in the vicinity of Béal na Bláth when Collins is killed. A ridiculous fabrication with no evidence to support it.
4. Armoured cars are shown firing on the crowd in Croke Park. This did not happen.
5. Ned Broy was not killed as depicted in the film. He died of natural causes aged 85.

There are probably other inaccuracies too that are not on that list. Neil Jordan said at the time he had produced "an historically accurate film" which was a very strange thing to say.
An entertaining film to be sure but not one that anyone should use as a historical account of that time in Irish history.

weadick

Interesting to see what the deleted scenes on the blu-ray are. Apparently there was a Soloheadbeg type ambush scene which was never used. Jordan said in an interview recently that he also filmed scenes with a young actor playing Collins as a boy but the film footage has been lost. I actually remember a guy in my class auditioning for that part, not sure if he got it in the end though.

Snake Plisken

Anyone pick up the Blu-Ray yet? Just wondering what the transfer is like?

edbrez

weadick wrote: »

There aren't that many scenes with British soldiers/Tans though, most of it is the IRA vs the RIC/DMP and Civil War. It had potential to be a great film

It needed a great director, Jordan has made more bad ones than good.

weadick

edbrez wrote: »

It needed a great director, Jordan has made more bad ones than good.

I think Michael Cimino was going to do it at one point with Gabriel Byrne playing Collins. Kevin Costner was muted to be doing it too with the main focus on the film being his relationship with Kitty Kiernan rather than the politics/violence. We might have got off lightly with Jordan.

Hard to imagine a film of that scale and expense being made in Ireland again.