Winter League

cgh

Lads,

can anyone explain this to me.

scenario is this. we are currently playing winter league in the club, it is run over a number of weeks with 4 days to count for each weeks score.
last week we 12 holes and with the bad weather on friday all 12 holes were temporary greens.(holes 1-4.6-12&18)
Sunday however there was only 1 temporary Green and but different holes (1-10,12&18)
I asked the comp sec about this and he said "sure dont you want to be playing full greens today"
I said it was a different course and that the weeks scores should be null and void and week replayed.
needless to say I got blanked.

ShriekingSheet

cgh wrote: »

Lads,

can anyone explain this to me.

scenario is this. we are currently playing winter league in the club, it is run over a number of weeks with 4 days to count for each weeks score.
last week we 12 holes and with the bad weather on friday all 12 holes were temporary greens.(holes 1-4.6-12&18)
Sunday however there was only 1 temporary Green and but different holes (1-10,12&18)
I asked the comp sec about this and he said "sure dont you want to be playing full greens today"
I said it was a different course and that the weeks scores should be null and void and week replayed.
needless to say I got blanked.

Your inferred solution is to leave the course as is on day 1 for all 4 days. Do you think that's reasonable for the day 2 and 3 players to use temp greens, even if the weather has improved? Given the choice, would those guys prefer to forgo competing in the winter league to get a game on proper greens?

What if Day 1 had full greens, but in the following days conditions meant those greens could not be used?

There's loads of these kinds of vagueries in winter leagues. The fluctuating weather and course mean some guys will always get lucky/unlucky.

You're technically sound in the suggestion that all rounds should be on the same course but for me, Jeff, if boils down to 1) there isn't really a viable way to make it a perfectly level playing field in Ireland, 2) the good and bad luck usually evens out over several weeks of competition, and 3) it's winter golf, not Ryder Cup. It's really just a mechanism to get out and play something resembling a golf competition while people wait for the season to start.

spacecoyote

Yeah, my own place will vary day on day.

Saturday was 9-hole all temp greens, Sunday was 12-hole, normal greens. The way my place runs it is your best score in any competition during that week counts as your score for the winter league, so you could play Sat & Sun, and whichever you score better on is your score for that week. It is pot luck. I played Sunday this week & I know it would have annoyed me to play into temporary greens if it was possible to play the full course.

Now...in terms of Winter League in my place, scoring is a whole different kettle of fish. I thought I knew what banditry was, until I saw the guys leading the individual winter league comps scores so far.

Over 7 rounds of competition, the guy in the lead has had 1 round of 37 points (his first of the 7) & every other score has been above 40 points (average score 41.3, handicap 19)

The guy in 2nd, from 6 rounds has had 1 round of 38 (again, first of the 6 rounds), everything else 40 or better (average score 40.33, handicap 13)

Breaking 36 points in 7 consecutive rounds, even with preferred lies says something is seriously wrong with the handicap levels to me.

I wonder should there be a call for a "Winter" handicap, with cuts applied outside of actual cuts to your GUI. My place does it for the Turkey shoots, but Winter league would probably benefit from it too

dan_ep82

I think Rathcore do adjust the handicap for their winter league, I'm sure lawman can confirm that

Dr_Colossus

spacecoyote wrote: »

Now...in terms of Winter League in my place, scoring is a whole different kettle of fish. I thought I knew what banditry was, until I saw the guys leading the individual winter league comps scores so far.

Over 7 rounds of competition, the guy in the lead has had 1 round of 37 points (his first of the 7) & every other score has been above 40 points (average score 41.3, handicap 19)

The guy in 2nd, from 6 rounds has had 1 round of 38 (again, first of the 6 rounds), everything else 40 or better (average score 40.33, handicap 13)

Breaking 36 points in 7 consecutive rounds, even with preferred lies says something is seriously wrong with the handicap levels to me.

+1, I've completely given up on winter competitive golf. In our place it's only 12 holes on 2/3 handicap but you often need 30pts points to feature and sometimes as high as 32pts. I'd have to shoot -2 gross to come in with 30pts over 12 holes something I've never come close to doing so trying to do it every week is just futile.
Also I actually find winter golf harder to score in, despite forward tees and placing you have softer ground and the danger of errant balls plugging or getting lost in fallen leaves.
Now I use just the winter to practice and keep my hand in on days where it's not bucketing down, a lot less frustrating.

ShriekingSheet

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

+1, I've completely given up on winter competitive golf. In our place it's only 12 holes on 2/3 handicap but you often need 30pts points to feature and sometimes as high as 32pts. I'd have to shoot -2 gross to come in with 30pts over 12 holes something I've never come close to doing so trying to do it every week is just futile.
Also I actually find winter golf harder to score in, despite forward tees and placing you have softer ground and the danger of errant balls plugging or getting lost in fallen leaves.
Now I use just the winter to practice and keep my hand in on days where it's not bucketing down, a lot less frustrating.

There's definitely some basic rationale behind why some players score far better than usual in the winter, and others, the same or worse.

I don't think the ultra high scores are banditry, mainly because I expect bandits have better things to be winning than winter competitions.

I think the forward tees, preferred lies, receptive greens that roll more slowly all combine to suit certain players perfectly. Add in things like loss of distance via soft fairways and cold wind too. Some cope far better than others.

At a guess, I think guys who are long off the tee for their handicap are more likely to benefit. If they are a double-figure handicap but reasonably long, it suggests they're not great at pitching and putting. Their length is a big weapon on an already shortened course, but placing negates their lack of ability with wedges. Putting firmly on slow greens also plays to lesser putters.

Come the season, with a variety of lies to hit from (especially if they're long and errant) and fast greens, these guys struggle.

I totally made that up, but it seems legit.

(Dr Collosus, as a lower handicap who can presumably strike the ball, you're not benefitting from placing as much as others. Just my guess)

cgh

all very valid points,

but you've lost the context of the issue I have,
the club plays winter league over 4 days but the course is different.
scores are all over the place,
One day its all Temp greens, (pitch and putt really)
the next its full greens and different holes.
if a club decides not to play to the rules of golf, for winter league.
then why bother with the rules at all.

Ronney

Think with winter golf you just have to be happy to be getting out to play. There will always be differences in fairness when played over a few days but sure thats the luck of the draw.

2 weeks ago due to the Weather we only had 9 holes open, by chance only 1 of those holes was an index less than 10! so anyone wit a 9 H/C only got 1 shot! compared to the 4/5 they would expect for 9

the lawman

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I think Rathcore do adjust the handicap for their winter league, I'm sure lawman can confirm that

This is correct Dan. Winter Leagues will see handicaps cut. These will revert to original handicap when Winter League is over.

Rikand

cgh wrote: »

all very valid points,

but you've lost the context of the issue I have,
the club plays winter league over 4 days but the course is different.
scores are all over the place,
One day its all Temp greens, (pitch and putt really)
the next its full greens and different holes.
if a club decides not to play to the rules of golf, for winter league.
then why bother with the rules at all.

Winter leagues and winter competitions in general are designed to be fun competitions compared to the serious events of the summer time. Sure with placing everywhere or a combination of placing/lift,clean,drop most golf courses in Ireland are pitch&putt compared to their normal selves.

There's only 2 really important 'rules' in golf that will never get you in any trouble.

* Play the course as you see it
* Play the ball as it lies

If you can do that, then you're playing golf. And if you can't abide by that, whether by the course or by yourself, then dont bother playing at all.

Long Turn

cgh wrote: »

all very valid points,

but you've lost the context of the issue I have,
the club plays winter league over 4 days but the course is different.
scores are all over the place,
One day its all Temp greens, (pitch and putt really)
the next its full greens and different holes.
if a club decides not to play to the rules of golf, for winter league.
then why bother with the rules at all.

They are playing by the rules of the winter league.
You couldn't run a winter league with our weather unless you allow for different conditions.

Kingswood Rover

Ronney wrote: »

Think with winter golf you just have to be happy to be getting out to play. There will always be differences in fairness when played over a few days but sure thats the luck of the draw.

2 weeks ago due to the Weather we only had 9 holes open, by chance only 1 of those holes was an index less than 10! so anyone wit a 9 H/C only got 1 shot! compared to the 4/5 they would expect for 9

That makes no sense playing off 9 you would give you a handier of 4.5, so you would be playing of 5 and have 5 shots on the hardest index holes that you have nominated for the 9 holes nominated to make up the course for the competition.

spacecoyote

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

That makes no sense playing off 9 you would give you a handier of 4.5, so you would be playing of 5 and have 5 shots on the hardest index holes that you have nominated for the 9 holes nominated to make up the course for the competition.

Yeah, my place will have, 9, 12, 14 & 18 hole comps over winter depending on conditions, and your handicap & the indices for each different competition length are all adjusted accordingly

benny79

On the winter league.

I have only played once in it this year due to timing & family matters. but here's the thing 8 teams qualify out off 10. There's roughly 9/10 players in eash team and top 5 scores count each week.

So my team has qualified and the knock out stages start this Sat! would it be a bit cheeky of me to turn up and play as I know a lot of lads at my club take it serious! ~(Were I just use it as practise) and moan if lads aren't showing up each week (even doe they mighten know you). They know by looking at the WL score sheet. I was thinking of just going out Sunday instead would probably suit me better as I'm mad for a game..

benny79

On the winter league.

I have only played once in it this year due to timing & family matters. but here's the thing 8 teams qualify out off 10. There's roughly 9/10 players in eash team and top 5 scores count each week.

So my team has qualified and the knock out stages start this Sat! would it be a bit cheeky of me to turn up and play as I know a lot of lads at my club take it serious! ~(Were I just use it as practise) and moan if lads aren't showing up each week (even doe they mighten know you). They know by looking at the WL score sheet. I was thinking of just going out Sunday instead would probably suit me better as I'm mad for a game..

Ronney

benny79 wrote: »

On the winter league.

I have only played once in it this year due to timing & family matters. but here's the thing 8 teams qualify out off 10. There's roughly 9/10 players in eash team and top 5 scores count each week.

So my team has qualified and the knock out stages start this Sat! would it be a bit cheeky of me to turn up and play as I know a lot of lads at my club take it serious! ~(Were I just use it as practise) and moan if lads aren't showing up each week (even doe they mighten know you). They know by looking at the WL score sheet. I was thinking of just going out Sunday instead would probably suit me better as I'm mad for a game..

Turn up and play and try count!

If your team wins and you haven't played do you still get a prize, if so then you might as well be contributing in some way.

Or else you could just wait till the prize giving and turn up in your full Chelsea strip

Ronney

spacecoyote wrote: »

Yeah, my place will have, 9, 12, 14 & 18 hole comps over winter depending on conditions, and your handicap & the indices for each different competition length are all adjusted accordingly

In my club they dont adjust the indices for 9,12,15 hole comps you just take shots wherever you would have them on a full 18.
Usually you are only likely to miss out on 1 shot. But mostly due to the weather and what holes were open we played Index 10,18,16,12,15,13,5,11,17.