Garda behaviour at a check point.

Curly Judge

A relative of mine was driving home near a Tipperary town on Friday afternoon when he was stopped at a checkpoint.
He was driving a 09 Honda civic in perfect working order.
NCT displayed.
Insc. displayed
Tax displayed.
Garda asked him for his driving licence which he duly produced.
He then asked him to take off his sunglasses, and after some hesitation, he complied.
The Garda then asked him for his name, the motorist replied that his name was clearly written on his driving licence.
He then aske where the driver was coming from, where he was going to and what he worked at.
By now up to ninety, the driver refuse to answer all three questions and kept asking the Garda why he needed that information.
After pulling the driver in to the side he asked for a full copy of the cars insurance. Seemingly the disc was not enough.
The driver searched hid glove compartment but discovered he was not currently carrying the insurance forms with him.
After repeatedly asking ; "What's the problem here. What's the problem here", the Garda let him go but ordered him to produce his full insurance at a Garda station within 10 day.
Is this any way for a Garda to treat a member of the public going about their lawful business?

pablo128

His number one problem was not giving his name. As much as I am a critic sometimes of Gardai, pretty much the only thing you are obliged to do when stopped by a guard is to give your name.

arbour

Why wouldn't he just answer the questions asked? Seems like it would've been easier..
Also, the Garda could have been on the lookout for a car/person that meets this persons description.
The questions don't seem unreasonable

Atlantic Dawn

You have to give your name, pointing to it on a drivers licence is not giving your name.

Kevwoody

If he has got nothing to hide, why didn't he answer the questions?
Sounds to me, that from the very start when he hesitated in taking of his sunglasses, that he was deliberately trying to be awkward.
The Gardai have a job to do, which I'm sure is difficult enough without having to deal with this kind of petty crap

Cool_CM

Why didn't he take of his sunglasses? Why didn't he just state his name? I'd imagine if he had done so that he would have been let go on his way.

hurleronditch

Curly Judge wrote: »

A relative of mine was driving home near a Tipperary town on Friday afternoon when he was stopped at a checkpoint.
He was driving a 09 Honda civic in perfect working order.
NCT displayed.
Insc. displayed
Tax displayed.
Garda asked him for his driving licence which he duly produced.
He then asked him to take off his sunglasses, and after some hesitation, he complied.
The Garda then asked him for his name, the motorist replied that his name was clearly written on his driving licence.
He then aske where the driver was coming from, where he was going to and what he worked at.
By now up to ninety, the driver refuse to answer all three questions and kept asking the Garda why he needed that information.
After pulling the driver in to the side he asked for a full copy of the cars insurance. Seemingly the disc was not enough.
The driver searched hid glove compartment but discovered he was not currently carrying the insurance forms with him.
After repeatedly asking ; "What's the problem here. What's the problem here", the Garda let him go but ordered him to produce his full insurance at a Garda station within 10 day.
Is this any way for a Garda to treat a member of the public going about their lawful business?

For all you know someone matching this persons description may have been acting suspiciously in the area? Or the car involved in a crime. Generally speaking, answer the questions, drop any attitude, you'll be left on your way. This person hasn't been the victim of a Rodney king style police injustice. Just need to accept the guard may have been on a different agenda and move on.

Curly Judge

hurleronditch wrote: »

For all you know someone matching this persons description may have been acting suspiciously in the area? Or the car involved in a crime. Generally speaking, answer the questions, drop any attitude, you'll be left on your way. This person hasn't been the victim of a Rodney king style police injustice. Just need to accept the guard may have been on a different agenda and move on.

Was the pulse system not working in the patrol car?
If he had any suspicion could the Garda not have checked up on it?

athtrasna

Driving licence may have been fake or someone else's, they needed to make sure the names matched.

4ensic15

He is obliged to give his name and address. It could well be that he may have handed up a forged or stolen driving licence and couldn't remember the name on it. The guard may not have been able to see if his appearance matched the photo on the driving licence because of the sunglasses. He is obliged to have the insurance cert with him in the car, the disc is not enough. All in all, it is not surprising that he has been asked to produce his documentation. If there had been anything wrong such as a bald tyre or a broken light, he would have found himself appearing in the District Court.

Cool_CM

Curly Judge wrote: »

Was the pulse system not working in the patrol car?
If he had any suspicion could the Garda not have checked up on it?

Long story short: as per your description of events your relative had a bad attitude and refused to answer the questions put to him.
Show the insurance documents and move on.

Long Time Lurker

Lotta Garda love here but to be fair to the driver he'd done absolutely nothing wrong. To be treated suspiciously while.just going about your daily business isn't really fair game either. Guard should have explained him/herself properly if there was a problem, otherwise its seeya thanks bye. In fact the guards poor attitude inflamed the situation just as much. This is why people, ordinary law abiding people, lose support for the authorities.

hurleronditch

Curly Judge wrote: »

Was the pulse system not working in the patrol car?
If he had any suspicion could the Garda not have checked up on it?

Well if the guards were just looking for "a xxxx coloured civic acting suspiciously" how would that be in pulse?

pablo128

Curly Judge wrote: »

Was the pulse system not working in the patrol car?
If he had any suspicion could the Garda not have checked up on it?

A lot of times a guard will be observing the demeanour of the person driving the car, to see if the person is stoned or drunk, or dodgy. Hence the request to remove the sunglasses.

The pulse system isn't that accurate. For example, when I tax my car online, I put the correct insurance company down, but put abc123 as my policy number, because I can't be arsed going outside to look at my disc. If pulse was the answer to everything, they would simply place an equipped car on the side of the road.

backspacer

In all fairness, the Garda asked a few questions that required a few simple answers, to be honest your relative should have reeled it in and would have been on his way pretty quickly.

pablo128

4ensic15 wrote: »

He is obliged to give his name and address. It could well be that he may have handed up a forged or stolen driving licence and couldn't remember the name on it. The guard may not have been able to see if his appearance matched the photo on the driving licence because of the sunglasses. He is obliged to have the insurance cert with him in the car, the disc is not enough. All in all, it is not surprising that he has been asked to produce his documentation. If there had been anything wrong such as a bald tyre or a broken light, he would have found himself appearing in the District Court.

Now you are wrong the regarding the insurance policy. You don't have to, and are recommended not to carry the full cert in your car.

punisher5112

All in all op that was a pretty standard checkpoint.

The guard was doing his job and acted accordingly even when he was met with someone with a terrible attitude.

He asked for him to remove glasses so he could see if licence picture was actually the driver.
Asking to produce insurance is also standard practice.
10 days to produce normal.

Act the fool be treated like one...

I have come across plenty of bad apples but honestly that from what you have stated op sounds like a decent down to earth Garda.

Long Time Lurker

hurleronditch wrote: »

For all you know someone matching this persons description may have been acting suspiciously in the area? Or the car involved in a crime. Generally speaking, answer the questions, drop any attitude, you'll be left on your way. This person hasn't been the victim of a Rodney king style police injustice. Just need to accept the guard may have been on a different agenda and move on.

"Evening sir. Would you mind if we asked you a few questions as a car matching this description was seen acting suspiciously in the area"

.... is how you address a person properly. Attitude works both ways.

Steve

As a moderator on this site, I can understand what the Garda is going through.

I see 100's of reports here every day, many of them are frivolous but 'maybe' there is something to them, if I happen to see something posted that adds weight to a report then I'll ask a question - I certainly won't explain why I'm asking..

Charles Babbage

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Lotta Garda love here but to be fair to the driver he'd done absolutely nothing wrong. To be treated suspiciously while.just going about your daily business isn't really fair game either. Guard should have explained him/herself properly if there was a problem, otherwise its seeya thanks bye. In fact the guards poor attitude inflamed the situation just as much. This is why people, ordinary law abiding people, lose support for the authorities.

Absolute nonsense. Presumably he knew his name and could have just stated it. One reason Gardai chat with people is to identify if they are drunk or drugged and these people are a treat to all of us. Likewise if a driver doesn't know his name it is a cause for further investigation.

MarkR

Why was he â€up to 90"? Was that 90 penalty points? Because that is too much.

dr.fuzzenstein

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

"Evening sir. Would you mind if we asked you a few questions as a car matching this description was seen acting suspiciously in the area"

.... is how you address a person properly. Attitude works both ways.

"Excuse me sir, we are looking for a ruffian who is accused of a few burglaries and assault. His name is Andy Example and he drives a civic just like yours. Do you mind awfully if we could just ask you a few questions, since you could match his description? Of course if we are bothering you, you can just be on your way".
It don't work like that. I've been stopped many times over the years, the Gards aren't looking for a chat. They don't want to play guessing games. They no more want to speak to you as you to them. But sitting there with sunglasses on and giving them smart answers, might just prompt them to take a special interest in you. Yes it goes both ways. I have found out that if you just give then the information they want, they let you on your way again. Funny how I never had a problem with them...

bigroad

Garda sounds grand.
You must tell them your name and where you have come from.
You don't have to tell them where you are going to and you don't have to tell them where you work its none of their business .

Rackstar

Up to 90, ffs just cooperate and go on your way.

dr.fuzzenstein

He didn't have one of these:

pablo128

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

He didn't have one of these:

Ha ha! That is epic! If I could buy one of them, I would.

http://www.grandgrand.ie/product/you-re-looking-well-guard-glow-in-the-dark-tax-insurance-nct-disc-holder

Found it! 8 quid though. Fcuk it, I might still get one.

bobbyss

bigroad wrote: »

Garda sounds grand.
You must tell them your name and where you have come from.
You don't have to tell them where you are going to and you don't have to tell them where you work its none of their business .

What law says this? You have to tell them where you have come from but not where you are going?

beanie10

Curly Judge wrote: »

A relative of mine was driving home near a Tipperary town on Friday afternoon when he was stopped at a checkpoint.
He was driving a 09 Honda civic in perfect working order.
NCT displayed.
Insc. displayed
Tax displayed.
Garda asked him for his driving licence which he duly produced.
He then asked him to take off his sunglasses, and after some hesitation, he complied.
The Garda then asked him for his name, the motorist replied that his name was clearly written on his driving licence.
He then aske where the driver was coming from, where he was going to and what he worked at.
By now up to ninety, the driver refuse to answer all three questions and kept asking the Garda why he needed that information.
After pulling the driver in to the side he asked for a full copy of the cars insurance. Seemingly the disc was not enough.
The driver searched hid glove compartment but discovered he was not currently carrying the insurance forms with him.
After repeatedly asking ; "What's the problem here. What's the problem here", the Garda let him go but ordered him to produce his full insurance at a Garda station within 10 day.
Is this any way for a Garda to treat a member of the public going about their lawful business?

So your relative produced his licence while wearing sunglasses, hesitated to remove them when requested and did not verbally produce his name when asked. See your point op- why would the guard be suspicious??? .
Your relative is an arsehole and should count himself/herself lucky that the guard saw through their idle crap and didn't leave him/her sitting on the side of the road while a recovery lorry removed the vehicle. Serious waste of guards time.

bigroad

It was put up here before.
What the point anyway,yes guard I am going to Iceland are you going to follow ,A stupid question.
Any crim will just lie anyway same as the job question..

Yawns

Some of the easiest ways to see if someone may be driving under the influence of drink / drugs is to ask some simple questions that require simple answers. Act the bollox and waste a gards time and he'll ask you to produce at station to waste your time.

If the guy answered simply, he'd have been on his way fine. Had it happen to me once before, didn't get wound up.

What's your name? Answered.

Where you heading? Home from work, live in XX.

Grand so, have a nice day. Not asked to produce any licence, insurance docs or attend station. Took less than 1 minute and all was fine.

Steve

beanie10 wrote: »

So your relative produced his licence while wearing sunglasses, hesitated to remove them when requested and did not verbally produce his name when asked. See your point op- why would the guard be suspicious??? .
Your relative is an arsehole and should count himself/herself lucky that the guard saw through their idle crap and didn't leave him/her sitting on the side of the road while a recovery lorry removed the vehicle. Serious waste of guards time.

This isn't After Hours.. no need for the language.

Sorry legal mods, not meaning to BSM.

Long Time Lurker

If I've done nothing wrong then I don't expect to he treated like I've done anything wrong. What time the guard has is irrelevant to me. If I've done something wrong then I should do as asked by the guard and comply. To use some folks logic here you'd think a guard can bang on your door , ask you amiilion questions then send you back in. They can't. Ain't no different in a car. Whether it's a crappy attitude or time consuming or what ever it doesn't matter. Anyway ....

4ensic15

pablo128 wrote: »

Now you are wrong the regarding the insurance policy. You don't have to, and are recommended not to carry the full cert in your car.

The disc is not sufficient evidence of insurance. The guard is entitled to demand to see the actual certificate. failure to produce it ion the spot means there is an offence committed if it is not produced at a Garda Station within 10 days.

Road traffic Act 1961 (as amended).
69. Production of certificate on demand
(1)
(a) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a mechanically propelled vehicle has been used in a public place on a particular occasion (including a case in which the member has himself observed the use) and that the actual user of the vehicle on that occasion was a particular person, the member may, at any time not later than one month after the occasion, demand of the person the production of either a certificate of insurance or a certificate of guarantee or a certificate of exemption in respect of the use of the vehicle by the person on the occasion and, if the person refuses or fails to produce any such certificate then and there, he shall, unless within ten days after the day on which the production was demanded he produces such certificate in person to a member of the Garda Síochána at a Garda Síochána station named by the person at the time at which the production was demanded, be guilty of an offence.

beanie10

Steve wrote: »

beanie10 wrote: »

So your relative produced his licence while wearing sunglasses, hesitated to remove them when requested and did not verbally produce his name when asked. See your point op- why would the guard be suspicious??? .
Your relative is an arsehole and should count himself/herself lucky that the guard saw through their idle crap and didn't leave him/her sitting on the side of the road while a recovery lorry removed the vehicle. Serious waste of guards time.

This isn't After Hours.. no need for the language.

Sorry legal mods, not meaning to BSM.

Sorry. I thought long and hard for a word to describe the person. Arsehole fits.

JustTheOne

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

If I've done nothing wrong then I don't expect to he treated like I've done anything wrong. What time the guard has is irrelevant to me. If I've done something wrong then I should do as asked by the guard and comply. To use some folks logic here you'd think a guard can bang on your door , ask you amiilion questions then send you back in. They can't. Ain't no different in a car. Whether it's a crappy attitude or time consuming or what ever it doesn't matter. Anyway ....

I'm sorry but youre wrong in everything you have said.

The gards have every right to ask you whatever they want.

bigroad

They can ask everything they want but you do not have to answer every question.

hullaballoo

Moderator: so far, we have the OP, answers, the OP selectively responding but ignoring good answers, and now AH-esque responses.

Thread closed.