Diesel Quality

pa990

With Diesel prices dropping i was thinking of filling an IBC at some stage before they climb again.
My query is, whether road diesel from a home heating supplier, will be of the same quality as a regular petrol station, or will it have absolutely no additives in it ?

any ideas?

I could just go to a filling station and fill up a few drums at a time and transfer it to an IBC, or i could just phone my local oil distributor and get 1000L delivered in one go

RandomAccess

First what's an IBC.

Second, as long as you are ordering road diesel then it is going to come from the exact same tank as that which is delivered to filling stations.

Agri diesel has/had grades with different sulphur content but I think road diesel is somewhat standard.

You won't get the best price if you don't order in bulk. Your plan to ferry it home sounds a bit daft to be honest.

Prices have not reached the floor just yet I would say.

CIP4

RandomAccess wrote: »

First what's an IBC.

Intermediate bulk container

They are used widely in many industries for storing various liquid. Some are used for powders too but they are a different design to the liquid ones.

Toyotafanboi

Don't know if the savings are there for that just yet, particularly when you factor in the hassle.

The Backwards Man

An IBC is a plastic tank in a cage.

Unless you have a hose and nozzle and somewhere secure and elevated to keep it I wouldn't bother, be fierce messy otherwise and the cost of setting yourself up would outweigh any savings unless your planning to use it full time. And assuming you use a fair amount of diesel. I'm not that keen on using IBCs for diesel personally, no particular reason, just notions mostly.

CIP4

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Don't know if the savings are there for that just yet, particularly when you factor in the hassle.

At the same time for certain technical reasons I'm not going to go into it would be a very bad idea to buy it in the summer and use it in the winter so if it's going to take you a longtime to use up the diesel you need to buy it in winter time. It's fine to buy it during winter and use it during the summer but not the other way around.

Toyotafanboi

Anti waxing additives?

CIP4

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Anti waxing additives?

Not even the additives more the raw diesel itself is different but it is to do with waxing with the cold temperatures so your right there.

flyingsnail

What is the shelf life of Diesel? With standard IBC being about 1000 L how long would it take you to use that?

Special Circumstances

Not much saving if it all disappears in the back of a transit some night...

The Backwards Man

flyingsnail wrote: »

What is the shelf life of Diesel? With standard IBC being about 1000 L how long would it take you to use that?

How long does it take you to eat a ton of spuds?

BreadnBuddha

RandomAccess wrote: »

First what's an IBC.

Second, as long as you are ordering road diesel then it is going to come from the exact same tank as that which is delivered to filling stations.

Agri diesel has/had grades with different sulphur content but I think road diesel is somewhat standard.

You won't get the best price if you don't order in bulk. Your plan to ferry it home sounds a bit daft to be honest.

Prices have not reached the floor just yet I would say.

I have to laugh. You offer your opinions on bulk fuel sources and contents as a statement of fact but don't know what an IBC is? Get off that bar stool and go home for your dinner.

OP, any reputable crowd delivering 500-1000L fuel quantities to farms and businesses will deliver suitable road fuel on request. Add a biocide and drying additive if you're putting it into an IBC for storage and try to get through it in 6 months. A water separating filter funnel would be a useful investment with the money saved.

Toyotafanboi

current best price for diesel is €0.99c per liter apparently.

if you bought 1000 liters, that'd be €990.

now lets assume you slip someone €50 for a used tank, then you need a decent few bags of cement and 2 dozen cavity blocks, hose and fittings etc, your into this venture €150 in no time...

total cost to you including getting set up, €1140, so the actual cost per first fill would be €1.14 per liter...

so if you had, a diesel car, doing the minimum diesel justification of say 60 miles a day @ worst case scenario 45mpg... that's 1.33 gallons or 5.9 liters... so you would use all your diesel after 169 days or 6 months.

so diesel would need to rise by 14% over the next six months for you to even break even on this, which i guess could well happen. so say diesel rose by 25% immediately overnight after you stock up, you would save 0.11c per liter or €110 over the size of full tank you stashed, if it progressively rises to 25%, you save even less.

€110 would be nice, you could take your missus to a mid range restaurant and to the cinema afterwards with enough change left over for parking!

seems like an awful lot of hassle for €110 quid.

Del2005

Most people are starting to run their home heating off 50 gallon drums as usually soon after they get a bulk delivery they get a bulk removal.

If getting from a petrol station how many runs would it take to fill the tank? Then you have the extra fuel used, and extra wear and tear on the vehicle, along with buying the equipment to pump the diesel from the drums to the tank.

With Iran coming out of sanctions and the USA about to start shipping oil the prices are still nowhere near the bottom.

The Backwards Man

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

current price of diesel €99c per liter

if you bought 1000 liters, that'd be €990

now lets assume you slip someone €50 for a used tank, then you need a decent few bags of cement and 2 dozen cavity blocks, hose and fittings etc, your in €150 in no time...

total cost to you including getting set up, €1140, so the actual cost per first fill would be €1.14 per liter...

so if you had, a diesel car, doing the minimum diesel justification of say 60 miles a day @ worst case scenario 45mpg... that's 1.33 gallons or 5.9 liters... so you would use all your diesel after 169 days or 6 months.

so diesel would need to rise by 14% over the next six months for you to even break even on this, which i guess could well happen. so say diesel rose by 25% immediately overnight after you stock up, you would save 0.11c per liter or €110 over the size of full tank you stashed, if it progressively rises to 25%, you save even less.

€110 would be nice, you could take your missus to a mid range restaurant and to the cinema afterwards with enough change left over for parking!

seems like an awful lot of hassle for €110 quid.

When I can get it for 990 at the pump, I'd be looking for the1000 litres for 940 at least before it would be anything like worth my while. Buying in bulk anywhere near pump price is silly.

Toyotafanboi

The Backwards Man wrote: »

When I can get it for 990 at the pump, I'd be looking for the1000 litres for 940 at least before it would be anything like worth my while. Buying in bulk anywhere near pump price is silly.

honestly, i've never bought bulk diesel before so i wouldn't know. i see my local home heating oil crowd offering it for 99c from their depo... i understand buying in bulk you'd want a discount but would that discount not be negated by them having to deliver it to my house?

then, even if you did save an extra €50, is it still worth the ball ache for a maximum €160 return?

The Backwards Man

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

honestly, i've never bought bulk diesel before so i wouldn't know. i see my local home heating oil crowd offering it for 99c from their depo... i understand buying in bulk you'd want a discount but would that discount not be negated by them having to deliver it to my house?

then, even if you did save an extra €50, is it still worth the ball ache for a maximum €160 return?

Na that would be price for delivery.

Depends entirely on your usage. For most users, definitely not. But if you're using a lot, or the handiness of having the fuel beside you when you need it rather than having to go look for it, then it's definitely worth it.

pa990

Just to answer a few Q´s raised..

It'll be used in little over 6 months
I have a fuel card that allows me to buy 100L per day
I get a 4c discount per litre

So ferrying it isn't an issue, as I'll be passing a petrol stn every day.

Currently my oil distributor is €1040 /1000L
A local reputable stn is 99.9 ¢/L less 4¢
€960 /1000L

I don't plan on stocking up quite yet.

I'll wait till the price drops more, as Iran's embargo is expected to be lifted this month, and the US is also expected to begin oil exports for the first time in 40yrs, since the oil crisis of the 1970's put a block on US exports of oil.

Long story short.

Diesel will soon be at an all time recent low.
I intend on filling an IBC with road diesel.

They will be stored indoors.

Is their any difference between a local oil distributors diesel and that from applegreen/esso/great gas/top etc


( I'm aware that topaz add a basf chemical, I think its called keropure)

ianobrien

The one thing I would check is that the IBC is spec'ed for long term organic storage. IBCs are plastic and with like dissolving like I would want to know that nothing from the plastic would leech into the diesel.

I don't know enough to say for certain yes it will leech or no it won't.

You say you are putting it indoors. I assume you have submersible pumps to transfer from the 100L transport containers as don't fancy trying to lift an 80kg drum of diesel to your from. Also, Carbery Plastics make a self contained tank with proper pump/filter/dispensing nozzle in different sizes for diesel. It's designed mainly for Farmers and haulierz. The biggest tank is about 6000L.

vectra

Wouldnt be bothered TBH OP.

I read a report yesterday that there could be scope for another 15c drop per litre yet.
I would hold tough.

pa990

vectra wrote: »

Wouldnt be bothered TBH OP.

I read a report yesterday that there could be scope for another 15c drop per litre yet.
I would hold tough.

The strengthening €uro will make oil cheaper to buy.

But.. never mind my storage or transport, or costs.

Is there any difference between the diesel fuel ( other than keropur from topaz)

VincePP

vectra wrote: »

Wouldnt be bothered TBH OP.

I read a report yesterday that there could be scope for another 15c drop per litre yet.
I would hold tough.

Not possible unless oil fell under $5

Currently oil costs 18c a litre - it is just this amount (and the vat on it) that changes when oil price or currency moves.

If oil jumped to $58 on Monday, fuel price would rise just 22c (18c +vat)


As for trying to call the market and bulk buy - not worth it. Between the hassle, tying money up and even the risk of having flamable liquid in am enclosed area, just doesn't make sense.

In any case, market is suggesting no rise on the horizon and the fact that fracking is so easy and profitable over $40, you probably won't be sering $100 oil again for a long time.

9935452

An aweful lot of good advice here.
Personally I like the thought of having bought fuel at a good price and having a good supply on hand but the money saving can be hard got.
I wouldnt use an ibc but a proper tank designed for diesel, if i put a grand in a tank i want to be fully sure its safe from possible leaks or contamination from a 'clean' ibc. You will need a water trap as there will be continuous condensation in the tank especially if it takes 6 months to use.
There is always the big possibility of it being stolen, someone accidently leaving the tap on, etc
You will also end up spilling some accidently as the fuel nozzles at home dont cut off automatically. Espacially if you are filling the car with 5 gallon drums and funnels. Higher possibility of dirt being transferrred into the tank of the car. Every single spill is profit gone.

Regarding filling it yourself with 5 gallon drums. you will end up destroying the car with little spills and the smell afterwards can be aweful especially in warm weatherand hard to get rid of.

A question i would ask is do you need to tell your insurance company that you will be putting 1000 litres of flamable liquid indoors(presumably garage) in a container that wouldnt exactly be approved for storing it