New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

poldebruin

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Two 1sts, a 2nd and additional picks for Garoppolo?

Are you smoking crack?

I thought it a bit ridiculous at first too, but just think what NFL teams have given up to snag Goff and RG3, he looks a lot more of a sure thing than either of those at the moment, not to mention he is on a very attractive rookie contract. What goes against him, is the plethora of impressive looking Patriot backups that have gone on to fail elsewhere - Hoyer, Mallett, Cassell.

In a way it's a pity for him he didn't get to showcase himself a bit more over the full 4 games, as it is he has a body of work that includes just about 6 quarters of (very impressive) play, which, as the Texans have found out to there dismay, is not enough to mortgage the future of the franchise on.

I can see a scenario where the Pats hold onto him with the commitment he will be starting in 2017 or 2018? Sacrilege to a lot of Pats fans, I know, but there is a history of moving on. Not sure if Brady is the exception to this rule though.

j8wk2feszrnpao

helimachoptor wrote: »

would Jimmy be happy to sit behind brady for another 2/3 years and then take his shot?

Unlikely. Considering the money/chance/faith Osweiler got, I think Jimmy gets the same offer (considering I think he's looked better, abeit in a small window).

AbusesToilets

I could see Brady going to the 49's, it is his childhood team and all that. I think his future could depend a lot on whether they win the SB this year. He's got to want to cement himself as the undisputed GOAT, and standing alone with 5 rings is the way to do it.

TOss Sweep

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd agree with your assessment there. I think we'd have no problem getting two first round picks, a second round pick and other picks for Jimmy G right now.

We wont get close this offer. Two first rounds? Not a chance in hell. We will be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him. No one is giving us a first round pick for him. It will probably end up being a 3rd and 4th pick and handful or 6th or 7th round picks.

paulie21

Any chance we see Jacoby active later in the year to catch teams with Wildcats etc? Seems like a typical Belichick move

JaMarcusHustle

poldebruin wrote:

I thought it a bit ridiculous at first too, but just think what NFL teams have given up to snag Goff and RG3, he looks a lot more of a sure thing than either of those at the moment, not to mention he is on a very attractive rookie contract.

He's on that contract for one more year, that's what will stop anyone selling the farm for him. You've got 4 years of Goff/RG3 to figure it out and make them a franchise QB. With Jimmy, you have 1 year to make it work before you've got a contract to handle. You're not giving up 2 firsts, a second and more for such a short window. Especially when you have only 1 full game to judge him on. If he bombs, you're out of a job. If he succeeds, he immediately has a free agency to test. Why would be accept your offer without seeing what he can get first?

poldebruin

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

He's on that contract for one more year, that's what will stop anyone selling the farm for him. You've got 4 years of Goff/RG3 to figure it out and make them a franchise QB. With Jimmy, you have 1 year to make it work before you've got a contract to handle. You're not giving up 2 firsts, a second and more for such a short window. Especially when you have only 1 full game to judge him on. If he bombs, you're out of a job. If he succeeds, he immediately has a free agency to test. Why would be accept your offer without seeing what he can get first?

I didn't realise he was into his third year already! but you could redo the contract upon signing, giving him mid starter money, a big pay increase (for him) and the gm a little more room time-wise to work with. Sure two firsts is franchise QB-type compensation (and fantasy really), but his stock is far higher than a 2nd and a few lower round picks I think- even after a game and a half.

We had the issue with Osweiler, timing was off, Manning stayed an extra year and he left for nothing (for us) and a big payday (for him) with very little on his resume.

AbusesToilets

I wonder how amenable Brady would be to working a deal to keep Jimmy. I would be loath to let him after what he has shown so far. I know they could get some great picks for him, but that is such a crap shoot. A capable QB who could be franchise quality is so hard to find.

me89

Jacoby tore ligaments on his right thumb and needs surgery.

paulie21

Jules next man up so

Tristram

paulie21 wrote: »

Jules next man up so

I want to see it, but I don't want to see it.

StringerBell

As I have said I have always been a big fan of Jimmy, something a little different to him then the majority of the QB's you see coming in as understudy, Brady has commented himself on how intelligent he is, his leadership qualities etc.

I think we have no issue right now, Brady is going to come back, Brady is going to play, he is QB1. Its a shame Jimmy only has another season on his deal, his stock will never be higher either so its hard to know what BB will do in terms of his long term thinking, if he is thinking about calling it a day himself anytime soon he may be ok to let Jimmy go, stack the team and go for more rings, short term strategy. Not really the BB we all know and love though.

Bradys dad said it will end badly ultimately in New England because Tom will never want to stop, and that decision will be made for him by the organisation, is Jimmy the guy? I don't know, would I make the choice at the end of the year between him and Brady and pick him? Not if Tom comes back and continues playing like the GOAT, how could you? It just seems to be a bit of a poor timing thing, right guy, wrong time.

If he could be convinced to stay on another couple of years and then take the reins that would be great, but you wouldn't fault him for looking at his options elsewhere either considering Brady clearly has no intention of stopping, of course there is always that career ending injury fear , particularly with the older players but other then that Brady keeps himself in incredible condition and you wouldn't bet against him playing to his mid forties at a pretty high level.

Ramble over, in short I'd love to keep Jimmy, I'd love for it to happen but in my heart I think this is probably his last year in New England. Always, I trust BB

TOss Sweep

Jimmy will be traded before the end of this season. No way we roll into his last contract year without shopping him. Time is now.

He would be mad to sit for 2/3 years behind Brady and waste 2-3 years he could be playing. That would make him 27 before he gets his full shot taking over a team. Kid has got to get paid and get a starting role somewhere. The two games he has played him have done enough to boost his rep and get him out of New England.

Only way he stays is that Tom Brady retires the end of this season. Or we shop Brady.

Shedite27

Similar to the Rodgers situation a few years back. Team legend that nobody wants to see leave, whatever decision is made is going to be unpopular.

Hazys

Conflicting reports on the level of seriousness of the injury.

TOss Sweep

Hazys wrote: »

Conflicting reports on the level of seriousness of the injury.

Yeah it seems they are all over the shop. Id say Jimmy will most likely start Sunday week anyways.

Son Of A Vidic

Shedite27 wrote: »

Similar to the Rodgers situation a few years back. Team legend that nobody wants to see leave, whatever decision is made is going to be unpopular.

Players play their part in games and while it is a team sport, if we didn't have Tom Brady, then we don't win those 4 Superbowls. Apart from being a player that delivered when everybody else cracked, he's always taken one for the team and gone easy on money demands to help cap space. I certainly can't see him being shipped out and traded after all he's done for the franchise. So whatever happens to Brady, the coach and the owners will have to treat him with the respect he deserves.

On the issue of Jimmy and draft picks, I think it's impossible to say what will happen RE: draft picks if he is traded. Their are no QB's coming through, a lot of teams are desperate for a franchise QB and you just have to look at the contract Osweiler got for playing on a team that was carried by their defense. If we do decided to move Jimmy on, then there will be no shortage of suitors lining up for his services. We will hold all the cards and no better man than Bill to maximise his value.

TOss Sweep

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Players play their part in games and while it is a team sport, if we didn't have Tom Brady, then we don't win those 4 Superbowls. Apart from being a player that delivered when everybody else cracked, he's always taken one for the team and gone easy on money demands to help cap space. I certainly can't see him being shipped out and traded after all he's done for the franchise. So whatever happens to Brady, the coach and the owners will have to treat him with the respect he deserves.

No one is debating what Brady has done for us and no one ever will but we are always being told that Bill Belichick isn't like any other coach and does things his way and his way only and that no one is bigger than the team. But now this issue is becoming more and more a reality it seems that many forget the same BB methods they have been spouting and defending for years will most likely be the case for Brady.

I for one don't think Brady is bigger than the team and I would argue that Tom Brady knows he is not bigger than the team as does Bill. Tom is a team player and ultimately if we roll without him and trade him I think he will move on graciously.

So let me ask you this if Bill decides to trade Brady and sticks to his ways and motto and how he has always done thing is that then disrespectful to Brady?

At some point either Brady will have to realise that the Patriots can't let his replacement keep slipping through their fingers and will have to make that hard decision. If the coaching staff feel Jimmy is his replacement and it comes down to long term decision or short term decision you got to hope that long term they have the best interests of the team at heart.

I just can't see both Brady and Jimmy being on the same roster next season. So if we stick with Brady Jimmy is gone.

TOss Sweep

On the issue of Jimmy and draft picks, I think it's impossible to say what will happen RE: draft picks if he is traded. Their are no QB's coming through, a lot of teams are desperate for a franchise QB and you just have to look at the contract Osweiler got for playing on a team that was carried by their defense. If we do decided to move Jimmy on, then there will be no shortage of suitors lining up for his services. We will hold all the cards and no better man than Bill to maximise his value.

Can't compare Osweiller and Jimmy. OS was a Free Agent and Jimmy is not. Jimmy will still get the same ridiculous contract OS got either way. I will be very surprised if anyone gives up a 1st round pick for Jimmy after 2 possibly 3 games if he plays Sunday.

Last 3 QBs traded for 1st round picks:

Sam Bradford - Eagles to Vikings
Jay Cutler - Broncos to Bears
Carson Palmer - Bengals to Raiders

All experienced QBs with more than a few seasons and I bet if you go through the history of QBs traded for a 1st pick most of them were experienced.

From memory Brett Favre in the last 26 years is the only QB with very little experience when traded from Falcons to Green Bay. But I could be wrong and open up for correction

TOss Sweep

This is brilliant someone updated the original picture above after the thumb surgery story for Brissett. JE11 face is priceless haha

TOss Sweep

Some of these images are hilarious over the last few days:

Son Of A Vidic

TOss Sweep wrote: »

So let me ask you this if Bill decides to trade Brady and sticks to his ways and motto and how he has always done thing is that then disrespectful to Brady?

If Brady is not performing at his own level then so be it. But if the team make a move prematurely and if Brady is still doing his job, then that to me would be pretty disrespectful. Some might say well that's football, but that means nothing to me. The Brady situation will be unique, because we are talking about the GOAT QB here so things could play out in a unique way here.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Can't compare Osweiller and Jimmy.

I don't agree, my point was not focusing on the contractual differences in either players circumstances, but rather the reward for their play. Jimmy put in the kind of performance in Atlanta that many franchise QB's today couldn't do. He then played 1.5 quarters in Gillette and ripped apart the Dolphins. If he didn't get injured, the kid could have possibly thrown +6 Td's. I've no doubt a lot of other franchises have sat up and taken notice. I cannot remember a player playing so brilliant at QB in a first NFL start, in a such a hostile environment as Atlanta.

I cannot say whether people will offer 1st round picks for him or not. But I also wouldn't be adamant in ruling it out. Will another franchise take a risk on what they saw? We don't know the answer to that until it happens. But you can be certain they'll be looking at the bigger picture - he's a disciple of Belichick the GOAT coach, he's from the renowned Pats system of ego removal, team first, hard work and player building. So in a league short of real quality franchise QB's, all the factors I've mentioned could make a desperate team do desperate things.

Me? I wouldn't trade him for the world and I hope he stays. And being mentored by Brady could make him stay. Why you ask? Because Brady has shown Jimmy that you can play at the top level heading to your Forties. Jimmy has credited Brady for learning what it is to work hard. So maybe Jimmy is saying to himself, "Hey, even if I take over at 27 or 29? That's cool, because I be playing like Tom into my Forties anyway." Or he might just go for the big payday and I really hoping he doesn't.

Tristram

I was impressed with how Garoppolo performed against the Dolphins. That said, I wasn't all that impressed with how he performed in the pre-season, albeit with a different line protecting him. I think it's too soon to be making any kind of informed predictions on what level of player he is or might become, although the speculation sure if fun!

On a different note, I love all the Lion King-esque images, particularly the Edelman one!

eagle eye

You should never look at a backup QB's performance in preseason and have any thoughts of how good they are. Tom Brady stunk up the joint in his first two preseasons.

Jimmy G looked Bradyesque against Miami. It's like he has learned so much from him and is the perfect replacement for him when he decides it's time. The problem clearly is that Brady doesn't look close to making that decision just yet. I don't think there is any way we can keep Jimmy until Tom decides to go. I think this is where we are at right now.

There are a couple of teams out there that badly need a QB. Jimmy G has now proven he can do it in the NFL, albeit only over 2 games, and that makes him a hell of a lot more valuable than somebody in next year's draft. There is the now factor and then there is the proven factor. He was being rated as the best QB in the 2014 by some scouts and all that held teams back from rating him an early first round pick was that he went to a smaller school.

I can see three teams coming in for him over the next couple of weeks. The Browns, Bears, Broncos, Bills and 49ers are all in desperate need of a QB imo. The Chiefs need somebody too I think. There are a lot of potential suitors and that drives the price up.

Tristram

It's just too small a small sample size with Garropolo to know. Cassell looked great at times with the Pats too.

As for the Chiefs needing someone and possibly being interested... that one has really thrown me for a loop. Smith has been excellent for them.

Morte

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Me? I wouldn't trade him for the world and I hope he stays. And being mentored by Brady could make him stay. Why you ask? Because Brady has shown Jimmy that you can play at the top level heading to your Forties. Jimmy has credited Brady for learning what it is to work hard. So maybe Jimmy is saying to himself, "Hey, even if I take over at 27 or 29? That's cool, because I be playing like Tom into my Forties anyway." Or he might just go for the big payday and I really hoping he doesn't.

While I don't think they'll go with Brady, Belichek and Kraft are 64 and 75. They won't be around much longer either and there's no guarantee the Patriots will still be a competent team once they go, never mind a great one.

It's lovely to think Garoppolo might wait but he'd be crazy to. He could wait two or three years and then find Brisset develops to be better than him. His stock as a third choice quarterback then wouldn't be as high, even if he was still just as good. Or he could get injured and miss the payday entirely. It's all too risky.

Son Of A Vidic

Morte wrote: »

While I don't think they'll go with Brady, Belichek and Kraft are 64 and 75. They won't be around much longer either and there's no guarantee the Patriots will still be a competent team once they go, never mind a great one.

I'm expecting Bill to coach until he's 70 and I wouldn't be shocked if he goes beyond it. There's no guarantee the Patriots success will continue when he goes alright, but he's helped create a lot of fine coaches that were taught by a master. So there's a very good chance for continuity when he goes.

StringerBell

The video tribute for Big Vince was a nice touch the other night, forgot to say. The big man has given us some great memories over the years, still miss seeing him on the field in a Patriots uniform.

TOss Sweep

Jimmy G back throwing in practice. Looks like he is being prepared for the Bills Sunday. Hopefully he is actually ready to go and not going because we need him.

JaMarcusHustle

Blount named AFC Offensive Player of the Month. Delighted for him, hard to imagine us being 3-0 without him.

Also, Belichick was mic'ed up against the Texans. It's a good watch.

https://vimeo.com/184685463