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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253



  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    Our picks,

    Christian Gonzalez: Almost everybody agreed that he was the best cornerback in the draft. As I said the other day, the only time Belichick has used a first round pick on a corner before this weekend was on Devin McCourty so everything suggests he should be very special. Gonzalez played his college football at Oregon.

    Kevin White is a defensive end out of Georgia Tech. He was pretty highly regarded by all the scouts/draftniks. He had a career year in 2022. Began his college career playing tight end but moved to defensive end in his second year. He was ranked on average as the 40th pick.

    Marte Mapu played for Sacramento State in the FCS where he was named the Big Sky conference Defensive player of the year in 2022. A lot of scouts love him and he's a real BB type player who can switch positions, he's played MLB, strong safety and nickel. I'm thinking this is cover for Kyle Dugger who'll be a free agent next year. Personally I hope we keep Dugger as I believe he's the best SS in the league.

    Jake Andrews out of Troy is listed as a center and played his final year in college at the position, he played at guard before then. He wasn't that highly rated and for some was expected to be a 6/7th round pick. One of the negatives in a lot of scouts reports was the lack of a mean streak. Seems to do well at run blocking. Seems like a reach to me.

    Chad Ryland spent his last year at Maryland after four seasons at Eastern Michigan. Last year he was 3 of 6 on kicks over 50 yards and in his last three seasons his field goal success was in the mid to low 80 percentile. He had a great record on pats over that span. I'm not sure about him. I feel this guy could have been got off the street as an undrafted free agent. He didn't show nearly enough to be taken in the fourth round.

    Sidy Sow played at Eastern Michigan. He has good size and weight. There's a lot of positive talk about him as a run blocker but he has weaknesses in pass protection with it being noted by multiple scouts that he doesn't recognise stunt plays and is slow to react as a result, there's also plenty of talk about him ending up on the ground too often. He's going to be 25 when the season starts and looks like he needs development. Strange pick as he's not certain to make it. Again I feel this guy could have been picked up later in the draft.

    Atonio Mafi out of UCLA seems like a very average prospect. I haven't read anything exceptional about him as a run blocker or pass protector and basically most scout reports project him as a solid backup at best.

    Kayshon Boutte out of LSU could be anything but he plays the slot which was an area of need for us. He holds the SEC record for most receiving yards in a game with 308 in 2020. He had over 500 receiving yards in each of his three seasons in college. It appears there's a lot of talent there, good route runner, can fight through blocks but he had a lot of drops in 2022. That's fixable, see the young Julian Edelman for reference,

    Bruce Baringer out of Michigan was the top rated punter in this draft class and we needed help there so no issue with that pick.

    Demario Davis out of Liberty is a slot receiver. He got good grades in all the categories you want a slot to but he'll have work to do to get to the level required. I don't mind this pick.

    Ameer Speed out of Michigan State was a backup player at Georgia for a few years and moved to Michigan State for 2022 probably with the draft in mind. He did okay at Michigan State and I'm sure Bill seen something that others didn't. We've a great record with late round and undrafted rookie picks at cornerback.

    Same can be said about Isaiah Bolden. I really like this pick. He's out of Jackson State, a small school and worked under Deion Sanders last year. I rate Sanders the best corner to ever play the game and he's impressed as a coach, he's now the Colorado coach, watch them this season. I've a feeling this pick could work out very good.

    Anyway some good and interesting picks there and some I think not not so good.

    The question I have after that draft is....what about protecting your quarterback?

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    To this point we've signed two undrafted free agents. Malik Cunningham replaced Lamar Jackson at Louisville and is a very similar type player. If you read other threads on this forum you'll see that I've said I think he is underrated by everybody. He is a good passer and an excellent runner. He has to get better at reading pressure and checking down quicker but I like him a lot.

    Tight end Johnny Lumpkin out of Louisiana is considered a blocking tight end so most likely in for run plays and play action. He hasn't done much in the passing game, his best season was last year having 143 yards and four TDs. So a bit of a red zone target and maybe he can improve with coaching. At 6'5" and 254 pounds you'd expect he'll be able to block.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36 Coreyhotline

    I took a bit of time to digest the draft, and reading through EE's summary above, I don't particularly disagree with anything, except that maybe a lot of the big boards I've seen have Sow around about where he was drafted (a little bit lower on some) so I don't see him as a reach.

    The big question is why didn't they address offensive tackle. I have a few theories on this. With the exception of Broderick Jones, all the top tackles were off the board by pick 14. I can only surmise that they didn't like him, or felt that they could get better value with Gonzalez at 17 than Jones at 14. Dawand Jones fell an enormous distance so my guess is there's something not in the public domain that means teams did not like him. There was a story last week about BB telling the players before the Shrine Bowl game that they wouldn't beat out the worst player on his roster, and that they were going nowhere. At first, I thought this was funny Bill doing the old chip on the shoulder routine, but looking back now there may well be a kernel of truth in that. We'll never know, but my guess is that BB didn't rate the tackle talent in the draft versus what he'd have to pay, has decided that he'll get enough out of the Reiff/Brown combination to get through the year, and that they'll focus on next year's draft for a long-term tackle solution. It is worth noting that while Brown was poor last year, we do know that he is capable of playing to a high level. Might be that they're banking on competition, a contract year and new coaching dragging a good year out of him which isn't beyond the bound of credibility, he was a busted flush the first time he came here too.

    On the receiver side, again felt that after the top line talent went that in picks 20-23, they obviously didn't feel good about the next level. Boutte looks like a potential high ceiling low price pick, and it's not like we have a great track record developing 1st/2nd round type receivers anyway (Dobson, Harry, Johnson, etc.), so I'm not as annoyed about the approach here.

    The kicker pick in the 4th I didn't feel great about, but then I noticed that SF picked a punter in the third, so maybe they just wanted to secure their guy. He may not be great from beyond 50, but anecdotally he can cover kick-offs, so maybe he works out. I don't know the stats, but in my head, NE seem more risk averse to kicks from beyond 50 than other teams anyway.

    In summary, I think if our top 2 picks work out, they will bring the defence up a level next year. Improved coaching and playcalling might mean that the offence can do enough to win games that our defence keeps us in. I don't see us winning track meet type games, but if we can keep a team to low 20s, we could improve the offence enough to win a lot of those. The rest of the draft I view as developmental for the interior OL, and a reboot of special teams which were dire last year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    Average ticket sale price for the opening game is $807. Obviously everybody wants to say goodbye to the GOAT. That ticket price is a bit of a surprise to me, I expected it to be high like $500-600. I don't think I've ever heard of that price anywhere for a regular season game.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14 Smartphone 1

    What do you mean "say goodbye to the GOAT". Aaron Rogers hasn't retired yet

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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    Aaron Rodgers won't even be in the top three when he retires. Brady is the GOAT and that's in everybody's opinion. Joe Montana is next then Johnny Unitas. People makes cases for Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Dan Marino but just like Rodgers they haven't won enough in the postseason.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14 Smartphone 1

    Still easier to wind up then a carriage clock. Never change Eagle Eye

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    I wasn't wound up, I was laughing. Why would I be wound up? Brady is unquestionably the GOAT, the only question is where he ranks in all sports.

    Personally, for me, MJ is no.1, Bolt next, after that you can argue for a few including Tom.

    I can see him ranked as high as third but you've got Gretsky, Messi, Tiger, Serena, Jim Thorpe, Michael Phelps and Mayweather.

    I can see why many would have a few off that list ahead of him. You can make good arguments for all of them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14 Smartphone 1

    Personally I couldn't give a monkeys who the GOAT is. I just enjoy seeing you getting all riled up when someone implies you're beloved Tombo wasn't the best. My comment was so obviously a wind up but I knew you couldn't resist replying

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    But I didn't get would up. Brady is retired and he's the GOAT in everybody's eyes so I've no concern what anybody says about it. I was just educating you on where Rodgers stands.

    I thought Rodgers might get in the conversation but he's failed in the postseason too many times. I've always been a big fan of the man, just so beautiful to watch playing the game. He's in the same category as Drew Brees, he'll go down as top ten all time.

    The is a real danger to Brady's status and that's Mahomes. Two Superbowls at the age of 27 and quite a few records is a great start. He needs a long career and two more Superbowls to get in the conversation.

    He is a very serious contender, make no mistake about it.

    If that sounds like I'm getting wound up then I'd advise you learn how to read properly.

    And you do give a monkey's, it just sickens you that a Patriots legend is the GOAT.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14 Smartphone 1

    I see you're self awareness hasn't improved either. I'm just winding you up and you're falling for it. Its too easy. For what its worth I consider Brady is the best I've seen.

    Anyway the ban hammer will be coming soon. Its been fun. Looking forward to winding you up in a couple of months time under a different username

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    You are deluded. I'm smiling here as I type. I've told you that. I educated you on Rodgers position and told you I loved watching him and the reason he isn't in the conversation, just like Peyton Manning.

    I've also told you that there's a serious contender to Brady's crown.

    I'm a realistic person, there's nothing ever written in stone as in it can't change. Same as records are made to be broken. Joe Montana was the GOAT, some people argued that Jerry Rice was. I don't expect Brady to remain the GOAT forever but I love that a Patriot has got that mantle for now.

    Anyway I'll sign off this conversation with a smile like I've had all through this conversation. 😀

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,170 ✭✭✭✭ELM327

    It will take a long long time before Brady is dethroned as the goat. Even if they add a game a decade to the seasons its still going to be difficult given how long brady played on top and arguably could have continued to do so. How many players retired closer to 50 than 40 and went out at or near the peak of their abilities? At the time of his retirement Brady had more rings than not only all other players but also all other franchises! That's bar raisingly multigenerational level. And he's not even my favorite QB (Brett Favre is) but theres no doubting that TB12 is the goat of all sports.

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,889 ✭✭✭✭paulie21

    Looks like Jack Jones time with the Pats is over. What a plonker

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    He might only get a slap on the wrist with a plea deal as a first time offender.

    It's very strange as I was reading he was on twitter criticising some other NFL player for something similar.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,170 ✭✭✭✭ELM327

    We dont typically tolerate that sort of nonsense conduct, I suspect he's on the way out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa

    Training camp started yesterday. Trent Brown seems to have shown up in shape, which is a big plus. If he can have a solid-to-good season it will go a long way towards helping the OL.

    Anyone have a decent Patriots podcast they'd recommend?

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    I'm a bit biased with the my first recommendation. Thats the Patriots Report with LaGarrette Blount and Christopher Price. I used to post on and so did Christopher and we got on really well and used to pm each other a lot. He told me he wanted to be a writer on Patriots stuff and he went and achieved his dream. Anyway they do a monthly podcast and its quite good.

    For more regular ones I like Locked on Patriots, Pats Pulpit and Patriots Unfiltered.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭CMcsporty

    I see that Price is now The Patriots beat reporter for The Globe.

    Biggest stories for this season is how will they manage post Devin McCourtney retirement and the significant return of Bill O'Brien as OC and QB coach.

    Old Klemm (of the infamous 2000 draft) is also back. Now as the OL coach. An interesting partnership with O'Brien.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    The only thing about BoB coming back is the lingering feeling I have that he's the reason that Hopkins chose the titans over us.

    Still I think he's a great offensive coordinator and I'm looking forward to the season. I'd rather have him than an average offensive coordinator and DeAndre Hopkins.

    As regards replacing Devin McCourty, well you just can't replace a guy as talented as him. I have high hopes for Joshuah Bledsoe who was mentored by Devin. Jabrill Peppers is no.1 on the depth chart at free safety, Mills is second and Joshuah third. It's a pretty decent group.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa

    Zeke Elliott signs on a one year deal worth up to $6 million. Some badly needed depth at RB... should help keep Stevenson fresh. Doesn't indicate that Strong or Harris are likely to make much of a second year jump though. Be great if Ty Montgomery could stay fit, but that seems unlikely.

    OL could do with some reinforcing, we've been banged up all training camp and the back-ups don't look up too much.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    Elliott looked finished last year. Maybe a new team freshens him up. I'm not a fan at all.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭BizzyC

    I think having Zeke in is more of an effort to add leadership with some depth.

    He's not going to be an RB1 anymore, but he can make the young guys in our RB room better players

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa

    Yeah, he'll be a very good RB2, hopefully. He's still good in short yardage situations and great in pass protection. He'll help keep Stevenson fresh too, which is a massive plus. It's a good signing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa

    We've traded for two back-up level OT's yesterday. The OL is the biggest worry heading into the season, so hopefully these moves help a little. Most of the OL starters have missed loads of camp, so it's all been a bit of a mess.

    On the plus side, 6th round rookie receivers Kayshon Boutte and Demario Douglas both had strong camps and look set to make the team.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,926 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss

    Bailey Zappe and Malik Cunningham both cut. Probably some chance that the latter may clear waivers and be on the practise squad.

    Presumably they have someone in mind as backup to Jones.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36 Coreyhotline

    Still haven't seen a full roster, but we're looking really thin at TE (firkser and sokol both cut), RB (harris and taylor both cut) and QB based on the cuts so far, and OL doesn't look all that deep either (hines and stueber both cut).

    As regards Zappe, I understand the cut from the perspective that he doesn't seem to have made a second year jump and his height was becoming an issue for his mechanics according to training camp reports. I don't really understand carrying 1 quarterback, but I'm wondering if Bill has discovered the ultimate zig to everyone's zag. With the emergency 3rd qb provision, unless you're not sure about your starter, you could make an argument that you only need to carry your starter on the active roster/gameday roster. If your qb gets injured during the game, you go to your emergency qb. If you want to make a change during the season, then you promote your second stringer from practice squad to the active roster. Interesting to see where they carry the extra player, in my head I think if you have DL that features heavy rotation, that would be where you carry the extra body (obvs that's not us). If the intention is to bring in another QB, I don't particularly like the look of what's out there in FA (Wentz, Foles, McCoy, Grier, not sure if I'm keen on any of those, but maybe O'Brien thinks he can do something with Wentz).

    With the cuts in the line, plus the 2 trades in the last few days, and the drafting of 3 interior lineman, I'm beginning to think that Onwenu will start the season at RT if fit. I don't think he stays there all season, but until one of the 2 new guys or Anderson gets up to speed (he's just come of IR or PUP, can't remember which). I think Mafi will start at RG, he's been up and down in camp (more up than down), we could probably get away with him for a few games before tape catches up with him.

    Finally, I'm sure Eagle Eye will be sad to see Bledsoe cut, I know you had high hopes for him.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    Only two running backs and two tight ends and one Quarterback. What the hell is going on?

    I'm counting eight linebackers not including McMillan and Hall who are both on IR.

    Obviously I was wrong about Bledsoe. I just liked what I seen when he was on the field but I'm no expert on safeties.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Christy42

    The NFL comes at you fast. Zappe had calls for him to be the full time starter last year and generally performed well outside of the Bears game. I had a second of confusion thinking Bledsoe is a little on the old side for the NFL right now but I got there.

    I guess someone like Foles to bring an extra coach who sticks on a helmet at practice for Mac.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,045 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye

    I'm totally confused. Zappe was a fourth round pick who looked good last season. Surely you would have had someone interested in taking him for a draft pick? Malik Cunningham looked like a Swiss army knife which is something BB loves.

    What happens if Rhamondre or Zeke goes down and/or Henry and Gesicki? I'm talking about during a game.