World of work changing or is it a myth

So my daughters boyfriend work in IT, he goes from contract to contract no set hours of work, works from home a lot, now it is well paid but very demanding with no security or benefits except being paid he takes that as the norm as he has always worked like this. He is amused at his gf ( my daughter ) getting paid travailing time and other benefits. The world of work seem to be changing from good condition of employment that look after people to a sort of free for all or is that a myth?.

biko

It's changing for some, not all. With so many thing being worked on over the internet a lot of jobs have and will change.

c_man

Well it might be a bit pronounced in IT. Some devs I know have spent most of their careers as consultants and most seem to like it. Has never appealed to me personally, sure I could earn more money by doing so but I like having a bit of permanency and the benefits of health care, pension etc.

That being said with the rise of Uber and the likes, it seems this short term gig based workforce will be increasingly common. Can't say I like it much but to each their own.

Sleepy

Very much so in the IT industry. The idea of a permanent, pensionable job-for-life is long gone unfortunately.

lc180

The reality of working in IT is that you are competing with other software developers, analysts, engineers and geeks based in lower wage countries like India and China. Countries which may not the same employment laws that we have but have an abundance of smart capable people.

Where I work its termed as being 'competative', and by competitive they secretly mean work your ar$e off, hit your targets and we won't consider moving your project to the India office.

Not true for all cases but definitely a factor unfortunately.

4068ac1elhodqr

By 2030 around 38% of current roles will be replaced through robotics & automation.

Have fond memories of working (maximum) of 35hr p/weeks 9-5, paid weekly with a hearty 1hr lunch at the pub back in the late 90's. Those days are over. The rise of 'spec & crowd based solutions', and day rates are on the rise. Places like Jarkata can do most IT related projects much cheaper.

Did a 3wk contract few years ago on a p/hr rate that could only be described as most generous, waiting 3 mths to get paid wasn't so great, even with a water tight contract and LBA posted out.

One thing great pay can't buy is time.

smash

mariaalice wrote: »

So my daughters boyfriend work in IT, he goes from contract to contract no set hours of work, works from home a lot, now it is well paid but very demanding with no security or benefits except being paid he takes that as the norm as he has always worked like this. He is amused at his gf ( my daughter ) getting paid travailing time and other benefits. The world of work seem to be changing from good condition of employment that look after people to a sort of free for all or is that a myth?.

If he's in a contract then he either does have set hours of work, minimum hours to work, or gets paid on a project phase or completion basis. It's pretty standard in IT contracting roles.

I do not know much about IT but what I think is interesting is.. one of his areas is designing and drafting IT contracts, so you have someone who has never experienced a job with benefits above pay designing contracts its a sort of race to the bottom. Another thing is not being sure who the actualy employer is as there are so many contracted out work and contract within contracts.

Maybe I am not explaining myself very well.

smash

mariaalice wrote: »

I do not know much about IT but what I think is interesting is.. one of his areas is designing and drafting IT contracts, so you have someone who has never experienced a job with benefits above pay designing contracts its a sort of race to the bottom. Another thing is not being sure who the actualy employer is as there are so many contracted out work and contract within contracts.

Maybe I am not explaining myself very well.

You're going to have to explain your rationale here.

I suppose it is about a person in a potential position of influencing the type conditions people get, who coming from a background of always contracting form project to project.

I know it suits some people I have a cousin who has being doing IT contract work for many years, she takes 6 or 7 month contracts every year and takes the summer off to be with her children, but she works in a niche area.

seamus

mariaalice wrote: »

The world of work seem to be changing from good condition of employment that look after people to a sort of free for all or is that a myth?.

It's a bit of a myth. In IT specifically a lot of CTO's and entrepreneurs look to the likes of Google, Amazon and Facebook for inspiration on how to run a company. These companies operate on an American mindset where the company is everything and your family and personal life comes second. They provide food and leisure facilities on site, sure why would you want to go home?

Companies tried using the same strategy in the late 90s with Microsoft, emulating them in the belief that they would be as successful as them.

But they miss that the key to being successful is what you sell and how you sell it, the way you run your company comes second. So it will swing back, especially in Europe where employees have legal rights and social supports which gives them far more freedom to push back against their employer.

There's a balance coming into the world of work, and it has both its good and bad. Gone are the ideas of mandatory tea breaks at 10am and closing your door for an undisturbed hour at lunchtime. But on the balance side, gone are the requirements to be sitting at your desk at 9am and to stay sitting there until a bell rings at 5.30pm.
When I started working, "flexitime" was a new thing and many employers were reluctant to use it. Those who did, took careful note of hours to ensure they weren't being screwed.
Now my experience is that employers just let employees come and go as they please and don't give a **** about exact hours provided that they get the work done.

Sleepy

That would be similar enough to my experience seamus but I certain non-pay benefits which one could have taken for granted in professional careers 30 years ago e.g. employer provided pensions, health insurance, club memberships etc. are becoming far less commonplace.

It's probably as much to do with changes in the Dept. of Revenue rules as anything else.

Lovely Bloke

Yeah, same really, I'm in a "permanent full time role" I can work whatever hours each day (within reason), I usually do 730-4 ish, to avoid the traffic, but am very flexible around meetings etc. Contract says 40 hours.

I can work from home whenever I feel like it too, usually about once a fortnight, but can do two or three days a week if I really need to get stuff done and have no office distractions.

I'm paid very well, with pension, health contribution, and I get all my "telecommunications needs" for free off my employer (mobile, home broadband, home phone, full TV package). We have free gym, subsidised (not free) canteen, free parking on site. All bank holidays off, and 22 other says allowable.

It's great, and sure beats any 9-5.

ScumLord

Zachary Rich Insignia wrote: »

By 2030 around 38% of current roles will be replaced through robotics & automation.

I don't know about all this automation. Automation is great at making a lot of things, over a long period of time that never/rarely change. I know that technology is getting cheaper and more accessible, but do you know whats a great machine to have on your factory floor? A human. They're fantastic yolks, can do just about any task and generally require no maintenance, don't require fancy engineers to come in and explain in detail every movement they must do when you want them to take on a new task.

If anything we're underutilisation people. If you pay a human €200,000 to do a high paid job, and another human to sweep floors, isn't that a bit like using a Ferrari to bring home the turf?

Automation has all kind of problems, it's always easier to get a load of human machines and start manufacturing straight away. A factory full of humans can have thousands of the product made and sold before the automated factory is even turned on.

Automation makes things cheap, it's not always necessarily the best, or most productive way of doing things.. It has a time and a place, it's not a magic bullet.

smash

ScumLord wrote: »

If you pay a human €200,000 to do a high paid job, and another human to sweep floors, isn't that a bit like using a Ferrari to bring home the turf?

At €200,000 a year it wouldn't matter if you got your Ferrari a bit dirty. :P

4068ac1elhodqr

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know about all this automation...

Agree, it's not pretty, but inevitable and efficient for time and resources.

Whether it's a maintenance drone team that can scan thousands farming acres or pipelines in a single day, or a tungsten fire & rescue droid that has no qualms walking into a skyscraper inferno and airlifting out occupants.

It just means in the future, that human creative input in the workplace, and general expectations for quality of life will carry even more value than it does today, perhaps.

Tony EH

mariaalice wrote: »

So my daughters boyfriend work in IT, he goes from contract to contract no set hours of work, works from home a lot, now it is well paid but very demanding with no security or benefits except being paid he takes that as the norm as he has always worked like this. He is amused at his gf ( my daughter ) getting paid travailing time and other benefits. The world of work seem to be changing from good condition of employment that look after people to a sort of free for all or is that a myth?.

People's labour is being devalued over time, to a point where it'll be the norm for most people, including white collar workers, to be on zero hour contracts and at the whim of faceless corporate entities. Workers will essentially become mere tools to be picked up and used as opposed to valued staff that drive a company forward.

There are some that have no problem with this, as they don't see themselves as being subject to such things. But such a short sighted view is so stupid as to be completely dismissed.

There is a concerted effort being played out to slash wages and eliminate all of the benefits and working conditions that have been fought for during the 20th Century and as long as deregulation remains a thing to be sought by governments that don't care for workers rights and the handing of dubious powers to employers to do exactly what they see fit, the trend will continue.

When those that support such directions are then, themselves, subject to the situations that they are happy to see others go through, they might actually wake up.

jester77

mariaalice wrote: »

So my daughters boyfriend work in IT, he goes from contract to contract no set hours of work, works from home a lot, now it is well paid but very demanding with no security or benefits except being paid he takes that as the norm as he has always worked like this. He is amused at his gf ( my daughter ) getting paid travailing time and other benefits. The world of work seem to be changing from good condition of employment that look after people to a sort of free for all or is that a myth?.

A freelancer vs a permanent employee. I've been working over 15 years in IT and this is the way it has always been done. You get paid more as a freelancer, but you have to cover your own sick days, holidays, down time between contracts, trainings, conferences, etc. As a full time employee, you don't get paid as much, but all those things are covered and during company time. It's pretty much standard in the IT world at least.

pconn062

It's certainly not limited to IT. A lot of education jobs are now made of up one year contracts, which you may have to re-interview for every year. In my experience (working in the third level sector), there are massive turnover rates when it comes to lecturing staff and lecturers are now seen as disposable. Makes it very difficult to plan anything long term like mortgages, etc. And it's only going to get worse.

ScumLord

Tony EH wrote: »

People's labour is being devalued over time, to a point where it'll be the norm for most people, including white collar workers, to be on zero hour contracts and at the whim of faceless corporate entities.

But even corporations are suffering these days. There's a lot of small scale producers popping up these days as technology make certain things more accessible to companies and people with smaller budgets. 3D printing will further erode the control of corporations.

If we could get over this desire to have the cheapest possible version of products corporations would lose their stranglehold on consumers and employees.

Jawgap

I'd a bit of culture shock moving recently from the Public Sector back to the private sector.

I completed my post-graduate training in the private sector, worked there for a bit then took a job in the PS here in Ireland.

The job I left when I 'went in' to the PS was very corporate - I worked for a firm that trained me, I rotated assignments every six months or so without fail, had a car, an office and worked some 'overtime' as required to get projects etc done.

I 'came out' of the PS to work for a firm in the same area, that's spread across a number (3) of locations in the EU and US, with clients around the world. We talk about 'fluid time' in our place - you work when you need to work and take down time when it's available. Technology is an enabler that facilitates that and facilitates collaborative working without physical presence being an absolute requirement.

The remuneration package also changed with a lot of 'soft' elements to it, in my case.

So I'd say, in my area, the world of work has substantially changed - generally I'd say for the better.

FTA69

Tony EH hit the nail on the head above. The world of work is massively changing and rarely for the better in my opinion.

Things like a tenured job, decent pay, a pension and paid holiday etc were all things that were hard for despite workers being at a disadvantage and a pervasive establishment view that such things were silly and unachievable. Regardless of this, the above factors were largely won through a period of struggle.

With capitalism's latest manifestation however, these rights are being systemically rolled back as the top percentile of our society seeks to concentrate more and more wealth into their hands at the expense of the rest of us. All to often words like "flexibility" and "competitiveness" are simply buzzwords whereby business can treat people however they want and have no real come back. Here in the UK you now have to shell out £1200 to make a complaint against an employer, who has that lying around?

What we are seeing now is many workers being pushed into a system of precarity - scrambling for one insecure, low-paid job after another and a system of casualization embodied by the rise of "zero-hours contracts."

Now for some people like IT professionals who are content to roll from one job to the next that might work to their advantage but for many it is a race to the bottom and a further transfer of wealth from the bottom to the very top.