Carlow Town poor planning

Jed and Dave

Beware bit of a rant coming up.
Have to say the layout of the town is badly thought out and to me the spatial plan for Carlow graigue is a lot of wishful thinking with sites on the river and imaginary footpaths and bridges and nothing in terms of specifics. If I was a developer I wouldent want to go near sites at the castle end of town as theres no footfall because of the fairgreen.
I think the local council has a lot to answer for, check out the article in village magazine.



The councils own planning page is crap for looking at planning applications and drawings

To me (a relative blow in) the town suffers because there is:
• No identifyable town centre.Landmarks are hidden
• The retail is so spread out due to the fairgreen that the centre of town and the other end of town is suffering.
• The view of the Castle is blocked.The office development blocking the view of the castle from the river a disgrace.
• “Cultural Quarter “ is hidden and the whole place is really downtrodden looking and un attractive.
• Delta sensory gardens built out in an industrial estate???? WTF
• Too many surface car parks
• The fairgreen drags people away from the traditional core of the town along tullow street/Dublin street and the rest of town is suffering as a result.
• The centre of town is unattractive with a lot of traffic and no public spaces.
• No more big stores(dunes etc. at the retail park end of town) – the castle end of town at the other end of tullow street should be where focu
• The beautiful rivers in Carlow are ignored in the town centre… why don’t they CPO the ****e buildings on kennedy street and create an enclosed park/space on the river up the castle.. a few compulsory purchase orders and some foresight?
• Cant think of many places in the town where I can sit outside a café and enjoy a nice view of anything really – wouldent really attract tourists.
Suggestions:
Everyone start kicking up a stink.
Tax breaks and living over the shop scheme etc.
Get rid of the car park in front of the dinn ri and do something much nicer and provide underground car parking elsewhere.
Try Get one of the colleges to develop a part of a campus down at the castle end of tullow street breath some life into the town centre.
Bike rental scheme anyone..Carlow Bikes??
Develop the barrow way similar for tourists similar to the green way in mayo.
Cant think of any more at the minute. Thoughts??

Nokia6230i

Carlow Town Team in 2013 suggested a "Live over the Shops" scheme to rejuvenated Dublin & Tullow St. (there are some incidences of this but they're established families like Lamberts or flats that're on the rental market anyway; I.e. No new accommodation).

Dinn Ri Car Park; in my day there used be a "Swimming Pool" there; then the pool was moved over to where Tree of Liberty is.

Carlow Town Team launch had inputs from the S.U. in the IT regarding having a town centre presence; again nothing happened; can't see the IT itself doing anything given when Tyndall Institute is built in 2017 they'll be taking over the V.S./C.I.F.E. & have P.P. gone in for a Sports Campus on the Kilkenny Rd.

Car Park; (paid) multi-storey (3) car-park on grounds of Carlow S.C.

Develop the Barrow Track? WI & the various councils & Leader Programmes etc. are behind a proposed Barrow Blueway. (Reserving my opinion on same; seems to be a disconnection between different parts of the county on it)

iano.p

Some great points there. The planners all need to be sacked. I think carlow will never get the big footfall of people coming to the town. We have some great places in carlow but they aren't on any maps or sign posted. The barrow, the Carlow way, walk along the burrin. Loads of walking roots that b&bs pubs restaurants could all benifit from. It's a shame our great town is dying a slow death.

road_high

Planning in Carlow has been terrible. The focus shifted from the town centre and to out of town retail parks. Very hard to come back from them as its so hard to get business and customers back into a town centre once the damage has been done.

lotdpd

Couldn't agree more and delighted I'm not the only one who has these points.... its the type of town that just doesn't have a plan in place for the future (long term plan)

And they are looking to extent the boundary to cover all off graiguecullen taking in as far out on the Killeshin road as just past the cattle mart. Seems to me thats only trying to get more voters into the area and changing the boundary of a county in doing so. Pity they didn't stop and develop what we have before extending ....

Again thats for the points and well said....

madmaggie

I agree with OP as regards everything being spread out. Go to Kilkenny, park in Market Yard or Market Cross, walk out into High Street, and there you are in the city centre. I know Carlow will never have the tourist market like Kilkenny, but there is no real sense of a town centre. I hate to run down my own county, but unfortunately it is true.

Morf

lotdpd wrote: »

And they are looking to extent the boundary to cover all off graiguecullen taking in as far out on the Killeshin road as just past the cattle mart. Seems to me thats only trying to get more voters into the area and changing the boundary of a county in doing so. Pity they didn't stop and develop what we have before extending ....

I'd say it makes a lot more sense for services for outside the triangle to be looked after by an authority based in an urban area 200 metres or so away rather than Port Laoise.

Does Laois/Offaly really apply to someone <100 metres over the border who most likely avails far more of services and infrastructure in Carlow/Kilkenny?

It may be a gerrymandering exercise but I see quite a few merits it to it beyond that.

road_high

Morf wrote: »

I'd say it makes a lot more sense for services for outside the triangle to be looked after by an authority based in an urban area 200 metres or so away rather than Port Laoise.

Does Laois/Offaly really apply to someone <100 metres over the border who most likely avails far more of services and infrastructure in Carlow/Kilkenny?

It may be a gerrymandering exercise but I see quite a few merits it to it beyond that.

I think the more major planning mistakes were on the Carlow side I'm afraid. The lack of focus on the town centre when the Fairgreen came about, various retail parks in Hanover etc all damaged the town centre immensely.

road_high

madmaggie wrote: »

I agree with OP as regards everything being spread out. Go to Kilkenny, park in Market Yard or Market Cross, walk out into High Street, and there you are in the city centre. I know Carlow will never have the tourist market like Kilkenny, but there is no real sense of a town centre. I hate to run down my own county, but unfortunately it is true.

I would say 20/30 years ago Tullow st and High st were comparable in strength. High st has prospered and is now one of the best retail streets in Ireland. Unfortunately Tullow st has bombed.

fits

We need a new set of councillors. Hopefully new planner will help turn things around too.

Snaffles2014

Possible solution to the lack of town centre ..... move the Post Office (i.e. up onto Tullow street somewhere) to get more footfall in that new area and then knock the old one and with the Dinn Ri car park and old Post Office site make that the town centre, ensuing you link it all to Tullow street (i.e. another entrance into Shaws from the back being one connection/link)

Different idea ....

Possible solution to traffic and footfall ... need to plan it of course but a one way system on Tullow street and on the Potato market (to the entrance of Dinn Ri) so the traffic moves faster onto roundabout and down Kennedy avenue and onto Barack street and back onto the one way system again (maybe two way up to the entrance of the shopping centre.

newg300

Great points by the OP.

The "castle" area is an absolute disgrace. Fair enough, you can't do much with one wall, but it still had a bit of character. Imagine a green area sweeping from it to the river, running to the bridge? It would be lovely in summer especially. Instead we have this: https://goo.gl/maps/RRToAVwmbWP2

The Burrin is also a wasted opportunity. The units at Lemongrass along Kennedy Ave should have been built on the Penney's side of the river (I know it's not as simple as that, but you get the point), bringing the river more into the street. Now the view form the bridge there is the bins and rubbish at the back of those units.

On Kennedy Ave, the Haddens centre, social welfare offices down as far as the post office is nothing but a series of ugly buildings. I'd go along with the OP in saying ideally they would go.

Snaffles2014

I have seen a poster this morning that there is a meeting in Seven Oaks 20th Jan 2016 at 8.00 PM regarding the development of business in Carlow Town. Some councillor and other speakers will be there.

iano.p

Snaffles2014 wrote:

I have seen a poster this morning that there is a meeting in Seven Oaks 20th Jan 2016 at 8.00 PM regarding the development of business in Carlow Town. Some councillor and other speakers will be there.

Seen that but is one of the speakers not the manger of a shopping centre in town so he will be bias. And the councillors all voted for most of the planning in town. Maybe I am wrong

Jed and Dave

Interesting views and thanks for giving me the background.
Ive seen it happen where one Local Authority builds something on the border of another local authority purely to get some more rates in I think that retail park where dunnes is is an example of laois co co looking to benefit from rates to the detriment of Carlow Town but it is good that both councils are now doing a joint spatial plan – it’s a pity it is piss poor for the centre of town.
Nokia whats the Carlow Town team is it purely an organisation for business owners or can citizens have their say? Was anything even done on the live over the shops scheme? Barrow Blue way sounds interesting – could be away to get people into the town and also all the other town s along the river I know that it would have to be sensitive to local wildlife, etc.
Iano agree 1000%
Road High yeah the damage has been done somewhat but I don’t think any more car dependant retail parks should be built.
Kilkenny s laid out very well for a town the same size– bustling shopping centres at either end of the the traditional main streets john street and high street, very little retail parks.. a nice public space in front of its castle and a park… pretty riverfront… a proper cultural quarter with the theatre- st. canices brewery corner and smithwicks tour.
New G I agree 100 percent I looked at that view from the bridge and imagine how attractive it would be if you could see the castle and park in front of it – Kilkenny are building in front of the dunnes car park and developing the river front and creating a linear park along the nore – that’s foresight.
Caught the tail end of the meeting last night I missed the first speaker –
• Carlow suffering from recession higher costs and lower margins, people are shopping in Kildare village Dublin and online shopping because of brands. Carlow should position itself for upturn in economy.
• Penneys redevelopment to start within 3 months complete within 2 years. Widely welcomed but one speaker highlighted the need for more “brands” and upmarket marks and spencers type stores in the town.
• Buisness people in the town complaining about the high rates and increased over heads saying that lack of free street parking and over vigorous parking wardens is affecting trade.
• Point made that we need another TD from Carlow in the dail to make the case for the county.
That’s enough waffle for now.

iano.p

Would have loved to go to that meeting. But flat out in work. I think if carlow had two very good tds it would help but can't see that happening kilkenny is much bigger population. With an election soon now is the time for people on the doors to be speaking up but where too start.

Owryan

There is probably more chance of Carlow having 0 td's as there is of having two.

I hate to say it but sf are looking strong for a seat :-(

Nokia6230i

Jed and Dave wrote: »

Interesting views and thanks for giving me the background.
Ive seen it happen where one Local Authority builds something on the border of another local authority purely to get some more rates in I think that retail park where dunnes is is an example of laois co co looking to benefit from rates to the detriment of Carlow Town but it is good that both councils are now doing a joint spatial plan – it’s a pity it is piss poor for the centre of town.
Nokia whats the Carlow Town team is it purely an organisation for business owners or can citizens have their say? Was anything even done on the live over the shops scheme? Barrow Blue way sounds interesting – could be away to get people into the town and also all the other town s along the river I know that it would have to be sensitive to local wildlife, etc.
Iano agree 1000%
Road High yeah the damage has been done somewhat but I don’t think any more car dependant retail parks should be built.
Kilkenny s laid out very well for a town the same size– bustling shopping centres at either end of the the traditional main streets john street and high street, very little retail parks.. a nice public space in front of its castle and a park… pretty riverfront… a proper cultural quarter with the theatre- st. canices brewery corner and smithwicks tour.
New G I agree 100 percent I looked at that view from the bridge and imagine how attractive it would be if you could see the castle and park in front of it – Kilkenny are building in front of the dunnes car park and developing the river front and creating a linear park along the nore – that’s foresight.
Caught the tail end of the meeting last night I missed the first speaker –
• Carlow suffering from recession higher costs and lower margins, people are shopping in Kildare village Dublin and online shopping because of brands. Carlow should position itself for upturn in economy.
• Penneys redevelopment to start within 3 months complete within 2 years. Widely welcomed but one speaker highlighted the need for more “brands” and upmarket marks and spencers type stores in the town.
• Buisness people in the town complaining about the high rates and increased over heads saying that lack of free street parking and over vigorous parking wardens is affecting trade.
• Point made that we need another TD from Carlow in the dail to make the case for the county.
That’s enough waffle for now.

Carlow Town Team was quite an aspirational idea to have all the stakeholders working together to boost business incl. voluntary & public bodies & third level establishments (IT Carlow esp. enthusiastic) as well as Eigse/CAF & Visual (often wonder why the former doesn't take over management of latter?).

Included local businesses of all sizes from those on Tullow & Dublin St. to the Fairgreen & Carlow Shopping Centre.

Still active, on social media anyway (https://www.facebook.com/carlowtownteam/?fref=ts) and were mentioned in the Sunday Times Business section few weeks ago (see their FB for the article).

Carlow Chamber of Commerce & LEO Carlow involved also; I often wonder does the latter not just complement but overlap the other & are they not better becoming one body.....many of the same heads involved in both)?

Citizens can have their say yes; again please refer to the social media page I've linked to; I attended its launch in the town hall (there was free stuff going!) but not sure if a contribution an ordinary citizen makes will make a difference in town where it's "Hail Fellow, Well Met", very cliquey regarding Chamber of Commerce/LEO/Council etc.

Barrow Blueway got short shrift at first meeting of the year of the County Council; doubt it'll go ahead with such attitudes; I'm not a fan of proposal to be honest.

OPW/WI can't, won't maintain what's there as it is so what chance is there of them covering the 90km stretch from Levitstown/Monasterevin in Nth. Kildare to Graig/St.Mullins in Kilkenny/Sth.Carlow?

But there's money to be made from it; if there wasn't Carlow Tourism wouldn't be all all over it like flies to s***e!

I'll leave the others you've mentioned to answer your points to them.....

iano.p

Last night had Pat Deering knocking at the door. Had a good chat with him. He said within the next two weeks there will be a big jobs boost for the town. He wouldn't comment on any of the planning issues. But said he will look into it and will be back to me before the election. Only time will tell if he does

road_high

iano.p wrote: »

Last night had Pat Deering knocking at the door. Had a good chat with him. He said within the next two weeks there will be a big jobs boost for the town. He wouldn't comment on any of the planning issues. But said he will look into it and will be back to me before the election. Only time will tell if he does

I hope he's right. Carlow is crying out for a jobs announcement and even though I'm a strong advocate of places doing things for themselves, I do think Carlow needs some special attention. It's in a great location with great infrastructure, it shouldn't be too hard a sell...

Jed and Dave

ive too much time on my hands!
in the absence of any plan- ive done my own

bear in mind im not a planner- but neither was the guy running the planning dept in Carlow planning dept so I reckon im more qualified than him :-D

fits

Some good ideas. I would love to see the college moving into town centre also. Much better idea than moving out.

Jed and Dave

good article about how good planning can make or break a town
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unattractive-rural-towns-are-ultimately-doomed-1.2361880
some of the main points:

• Attracting people and investment to town centres requires a focus on the provision of a high-quality public realm: everything from lighting and street furniture to traffic calming and the townscape.
• Towns that have invested in improving their urban environments – Kilkenny, Abbeyleix, Clonakilty and Killorglin, to name a few – have done so out of a conviction that a high-quality public realm is central to attracting investment, employment and tourism to their locations.
• The regeneration of rural towns and villages may well require a revival of tax incentives for developments of the right type and in the right locations. The current Historic Towns Initiative has provided a modicum of tax relief in three “heritage towns”: Youghal, Westport and Listowel. Could this not be expanded?
• If we get it wrong, we will be living with the consequences for decades and beyond. And the costs will be significant – economically, socially and environmentally.

madmaggie

Do they have a town planner in Carlow? News to me.

road_high

Those towns bar Kk are way smaller than Carlow, which even amplifies the problems in Carlow as they're harder to sort.

Elemonator

It's Ireland, what did you expect?

Jed and Dave

madmaggie wrote: »

Do they have a town planner in Carlow? News to me.

google:
Hogan and Planning Mess in Carlow village magazine

They had a "director of planning" - im not sure if that person is a planner- perhaps im wrong...if I am I stand corrected
I cant post the article but if you read it its pretty damning.

Grassy Knoll

Have to agree 100% with some of the comments here Carlow town has been bedevilled by poor planning, lack of vision from substandard councillors, general absence of civic pride etc. contributors have correctly identified the out of town developments as do-nutting the town centre as developer-led schemes have drained the footfall from the Tullow St area, Kilkenny has on the other hand made developments work around their vision and they have a thriving core, they have retained the character of the traditional street scape building upon certain features such as the castle. CW doesn't know what it wants - the Shamrock plaza a case in point of totally incongruous development. Also agree an opportunity was squandered to develop the castle area by the Barrow, with some vision an attraction could have been out in place. Starting point has to be appoint a town architect as in Westport, Clonakilty etc ensure all medium to long term development is coherent, and a proper vision is developed. Small short term steps would be to ensure businesses or those renting property out maintain them, some premises are eyesores. businesses have to learn to help themselves too and make the place attractive to visit / stroll through PS paint & a few window boxes would help to take the dreary look off the place and are tax deductible. the longer term aim should be to get the Ritz site development moving - there were big plans to do something with that large area but a few 'hold outs' scuppered that. Something like the market yard in High sT would help revitalise Tullow st. The council need to move from a development at all costs approach to one that is sympathetic to a wider framework ..

Laois_Man

I had this e-mail waiting for me this morning. A few people here might like to have a say in the survey


Hi

You may be aware the Love Carlow campaign has been working tirelessly for the past few months in Carlow Town. The campaign has seen some great improvements in the public realm and streetscape in this short space of time, but there is still considerable work to be done over both the short and long term.

Love Carlow has been made possible through contributions from various individuals, businesses and stakeholders in many ways to date. Now we turn to you, as shoppers, workers, residents, communities who are in and around Carlow, please share your views and thoughts with us to assist in developing a more comprehensive long term plan for the town and county.

The survey will take but a few minutes, however we home that the results and outcomes will last for a lifetime, assisting us in improving and changing Carlow for now and future generations. To access the survey, please click on the following link https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/lovecarlow . We would be delighted if you could share this link through your place of employment and with your contacts, to ensure everyone has an opportunity to contribute to the regeneration of Carlow.

Thank you for your time and contribution.

Regards

Brian

Brian O’Farrell
CEO
County Carlow Chamber

Nokia6230i

Laois_Man wrote: »

I had this e-mail waiting for me this morning. A few people here might like to have a say in the survey


Hi

You may be aware the Love Carlow campaign has been working tirelessly for the past few months in Carlow Town. The campaign has seen some great improvements in the public realm and streetscape in this short space of time, but there is still considerable work to be done over both the short and long term.

Love Carlow has been made possible through contributions from various individuals, businesses and stakeholders in many ways to date. Now we turn to you, as shoppers, workers, residents, communities who are in and around Carlow, please share your views and thoughts with us to assist in developing a more comprehensive long term plan for the town and county.

The survey will take but a few minutes, however we home that the results and outcomes will last for a lifetime, assisting us in improving and changing Carlow for now and future generations. To access the survey, please click on the following link https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/lovecarlow . We would be delighted if you could share this link through your place of employment and with your contacts, to ensure everyone has an opportunity to contribute to the regeneration of Carlow.

Thank you for your time and contribution.

Regards

Brian

Brian O’Farrell
CEO
County Carlow Chamber

3 Main Assets Carlow Town has to offer customers & visitors?

Roads out of it to Kilkenny, Waterford, Portlaoise, Wexford, Dublin etc.

Train out of it to Kilkenny, Waterford, Dublin etc.

That's 2 anyway!

On a more serious note be interested to see, a bit like Census 2016 or the Leaving Cert etc., what people do put down for this & the other multiple answer questions.

We're all anonymous here & on it so time to or get off the plank now & let's be having ye/us.

There will be some parts of any SWOT Analysis that overlap mind; what's seen as good/bad might also be seen as bad/good etc.

So let's go........

Owryan

Filled it out fwiw.

Struggled to think of 3 good things. No such problem with whats bad.....dog crap everywhere.....parking......all the boarded up buildings.....overgrown trees/bushes....the castle.

fits

Its such a shame that the narrative about carlow is now so negative. But its completely understandable. Fair play to love carlow campaign for looking to identify the positives and build on them. I hope the townsfolk can get behind it and build up some momentum. Towns can turn themselves around. Gorey would be a good example of this.

As for good things about the town? Visual, the theatre, a strong IT, St Patricks college, theres a lot of potential for the arts festival. Dublin St is a beautiful streetscape if it could be brought back to life. The lanes around cathedral also have lots of potential.

Agent Coulson

The number one bad thing is the CoCo themselves and their planning department.

Nokia6230i

fits wrote: »

Its such a shame that the narrative about carlow is now so negative. But its completely understandable. Fair play to love carlow campaign for looking to identify the positives and build on them. I hope the townsfolk can get behind it and build up some momentum. Towns can turn themselves around. Gorey would be a good example of this.

As for good things about the town? Visual, the theatre, a strong IT, St Patricks college, theres a lot of potential for the arts festival. Dublin St is a beautiful streetscape if it could be brought back to life. The lanes around cathedral also have lots of potential.

This bit though (the sentence in bold)?

Have you seen College St./Brown St./Charlotte St.?

College St. has Mimosa/s going for it alright but does the Riverboat Casino add to it?

There's 2 Abandoned, derelict houses right opp. Carlow College that were painted up recently (presumably for Carlow Arts Festival, it's still putting lipstick on a pig mind!); one's fit for knocking down only, the other, having been in it prior to boarding it up a number of years ago, is only semi-habitable & has no electricity/running water.

Squatters broke in & the smell of urine upstairs where there was no toilet meant they didn't give a, if you'll pardon the pun.

The downstairs toilet? Well it was full to be polite & masks were reqd. when boarding up where that window'd been kicked in/out to gain entry.

Upstairs there were the usual paraphrenlia (sp?) of heroin use from needles to tin-foil to silver spoons to lighters etc.

More than once disturbed trespassers. As a neighbour nearby the house had to be secured & the owner has left it vacant for 6+ years!

The one beside it? Squatters'd be wasting their time.

Lower College St. isn't too bad but M.J. Nolans place is vacant; the TD Pension must pay well if he can leave it like that; as it was it was rarely used when he was in office prior to 2011.

Dooleys Garage that stretches around the corner onto Court Place has been boarded up for I'm thinking a decade at this stage & has been subject to arson attacks. It had a "Sold Sign" up on it recently but not holding my breath on any improvements to the site.

Next door to it's a house that again is boarded up & has smashed windows upstairs.

Majority of houses on Lwr. College St. are at least occupied bar M.J. Nolans Office I think.

Brown St.? The corner house one side of which borders College St. is up for sale with DNG/Allsop Properties Auction. The previous inhabitant told me it's falling down inside; structural issues like wall cracks, the B.E.R.'d be as low as it's possible to go.

Next door features regularly in the papers/courts for nefarious reasons; have seen deals being conducted in broad daylight regularly & it's a case of pack 'em in, stack 'em high; 5 Flats in it. Was in one; you wouldn't swing a cat; the owner drives a Merc so she's living off the flat of the land in a big way.

Majority in it on various forms of benefits & rent allowance; would love to meet the C.W.O. who okayed these flats to be in receipt of R.A./R.S./H.A.P. etc. which in turn benefits owner.

Next door is the Dolls House; June Doran Properties have a Sold Sign gone up on it recently; think A.M.V. was €45k? It's more of a knocker-downer than a do-er upper; recently had a look inside when someone (resident/visitor) from next door kicked it in; squatters wouldn't bother with it it's in that bad a state.

Like Dooleys I don't expect it to be inhabited anytime soon.

Then there's Maggie Bolgers; the owner must be rolling in it to leave it stand, it used to be a watering hole for Carlow College students and staff after hours; it's got potential but needs serious renovation; could easily be turned into a guesthouse or a townhouse etc.

Whoever owns the Ritz Hotel/Charlotte Rooms would make a go of it I think but it needs serious renovation; fly a drone over that quarter & you'll see the dereliction behind it; if attending the G.P. Surgery you can see across over the rooftops that the amount of overgrowth & flora there means nature is slowly reclaiming the properties.

Workmans Club new entrance is on Brown St. also; they've given it a paint job but the redbrick part on Charlotte St. hasn't been touched; how soon before that looks antiquated and not in a good way since main entrance is no longer used; snooker & pool club upstairs is also out of bounds now.

Bar Funfair Amusements Arcade on L.H.S. on way up to Charlotte St. Trumps Nightclub is showing its age as are the other commercial & residential properties there that lie vacant.

At least Charlotte Rooms/The Living Rm./Ritz Hotel being reopened as Student Accommodation is a boon at least.

On the other side coming back down at least Walter Colemans Cycles, the Sewing Shop, the Christian Bible Church, Monte Carlow Casino are trading/being used but there are a number of units being used for nothing but storage & so look vacant.

On Brown St. the properties are occupied in the main but the side of it toward College St. has at least two houses boarded up/vacant for years.

I know the owner of one & aforementioned Dolls House were one & the same (they're same colour and I was told by someone in Flemington House) & it doesn't appear that squatters can break in but again, lying empty; house beside it has some sort of mesh covering the windows so another vacant residential property.

So while I admire your positivity I see it differently ever so slightly.

As for the Nursing Home being vacant on Court Place for 20+ Years when someone like Carlow College, SVDP etc. could buy/lease it surely?

And the hotel that's been purchased & renovated but still waiting for a leaseholder since Summer 2015 I think......?

Nokia6230i

Is the survey meant for Townies, the town only or for the county also?

Jed and Dave

Nokia6230i wrote: »

This bit though (the sentence in bold)?

Have you seen College St./Brown St./Charlotte St.?

College St. has Mimosa/s going for it alright but does the Riverboat Casino add to it?

There's 2 Abandoned, derelict houses right opp. Carlow College that were painted up recently (presumably for Carlow Arts Festival, it's still putting lipstick on a pig mind!); one's fit for knocking down only, the other, having been in it prior to boarding it up a number of years ago, is only semi-habitable & has no electricity/running water.

Squatters broke in & the smell of urine upstairs where there was no toilet meant they didn't give a, if you'll pardon the pun.

The downstairs toilet? Well it was full to be polite & masks were reqd. when boarding up where that window'd been kicked in/out to gain entry.

Upstairs there were the usual paraphrenlia (sp?) of heroin use from needles to tin-foil to silver spoons to lighters etc.

More than once disturbed trespassers. As a neighbour nearby the house had to be secured & the owner has left it vacant for 6+ years!

The one beside it? Squatters'd be wasting their time.

In the Development Plan they call that area "the Cultural Quarter":eek:

I wish I was joking.

fits

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Is the survey meant for Townies, the town only or for the county also?

I think the survey is focussed on the town itself but anyone with an interest should respond to it.

As for the cathedral lanes i agree there is a lot to be done but what was templebar 30 years ago? If it was regenerated it would be a grand area.

Jed and Dave

I filled it in.
I think my 3 positives

1. Was the presence of 3rd level institutions (if only they we re in the town not moving out the road further)
2. The beatiful rivers bridges views and historic buildings(if only they wernt hidden) and the town tried to turn towards them.
3. Accessible shopping

my negatives were as my original rant only tried to be more constructive,
lack of government funding which feeds into this too when you see carlow getting 2 million and the likes of 8m in government funding going to leitrim coco you know theres something wrong.
Theres more negative than positive but at least you have to start somewhere and good luck to love carlow. If the town was regenerated in a targeted way it in accordance with a vision it could be a lovely vibrant place that its not at the minute.

Grassy Knoll

Nokia has done a good job on cateloguing the level of dereliction in the general College st area - moving on, the loc authorities should seek to CPO these derelict property and thru social / affordable housing do a small street infill programme - alternatively sell on at CPO cost to someone who will be legally obliged do them up to a certain standard.

Nokia has also identified a huge site from te Ritz on Tullow st back - to Brown st - a developer was assembling the site for a project however one prominent hold-out meant it went nowhere- seems the student scheme for the Ritz might be a holding project- a proper development wold led revitalise Tullow st. area

Laois_Man

Got another e-mail this morning.........

Love Carlow Day
Saturday October 15th
6am to 1pm

This is a date for your diary. We are looking for volunteers, business owners/operators, carlovians, basically everybody who loves this town and county to join in a day to clean up various areas and projects within Carlow Town.

To date we have identified a number of projects which will be addressed on the day, however feel free to contact us with details of any specific project you would like to tackle.

We are urging all business owners to assist by coordinating a clean up on the exterior of their premises and the immediate approaches, don't forget to recruit your neighbor to the task also



Where will we be?
The Old Cosmos Premises on Tullow Street will be our base of operations on the morning, we will request all volunteers to sign in with us there so that we can ensure effective coordination of projects.

Why start at 6am?
There is a considerable amount of work to be done, and the best time to carry this out is before the traffic starts, businesses open and visitors arrive. In addition, just think of the wow factor as people arrive to the town and see the improvements first hand.

What about tools and equipment?
We have received sponsorship from a number of busiensses and for this we are extremely grateful. We have been provided with High Viz Vests with Love Carlow on them, waste removal, cleaning services, to name but a few. We are still coordinating what other items we need, however come prepared and ready.

What projects will be tackled on the day?
The planned projects include, removal of fly posters, power washing, litter picking, painting, planting etc to name but a few.

What Can I Do?
1. Turn up on the 15th prepared to assist
2. Maybe you are a business owner / operator in the town and open on the day, that's fine however maybe you could focus some time on the area outside your premises and encourage your neighbor's to do the same
3. Can't assist on the day? How about helping through sponsoring in some way, contact us and we can discuss further

Count Me IN
This is what will make the difference, we can all be involved. Let us know who and how many will be assisting on the day by e-mailing Brian on ceo@carlowchamber.com . If you are completing your own project at your premises, let us know also.

More Information?
Need some more information, got questions, want to provide sponsorship. Get in contact now on e-mail ceo@carlowchamber.com

See you there!
Saturday October 15th
6am to 1pm

https://www.facebook.com/lovecarlow.ie/

Nokia6230i

Carlow Town Team run by Carlow Chamber of Commerce right.....necessary to create another quango?

Was at "Jobs" Fair last week & there were more courses on offer & IT Carlow LLLC Brochures & various divisions of the Dole Office/Intreo/FÁS/Solas etc. than there were actual recruiters.

Can only think of Phonewatch/Matrix Recruitment (not company specific)/Netwatch/Comfort Keepers/Home Instead/Bluebird/Translit.

So this Carlow Town Team strikes me as another extension of a local council body effectively; do I take it Carlow Town Team launched in the Autumn of 2014 has been quietly dropped by the CCC & other stakeholders because it was the forerunner effectively to Carlow Town Team.

If it's not working let's try something not much different but under a different name huh...?

Davyation

Jed and Dave wrote: »

Beware bit of a rant coming up.
Have to say the layout of the town is badly thought out and to me the spatial plan for Carlow graigue is a lot of wishful thinking with sites on the river and imaginary footpaths and bridges and nothing in terms of specifics. If I was a developer I wouldent want to go near sites at the castle end of town as theres no footfall because of the fairgreen.
I think the local council has a lot to answer for, check out the article in village magazine.



The councils own planning page is crap for looking at planning applications and drawings

To me (a relative blow in) the town suffers because there is:
• No identifyable town centre.Landmarks are hidden
• The retail is so spread out due to the fairgreen that the centre of town and the other end of town is suffering.
• The view of the Castle is blocked.The office development blocking the view of the castle from the river a disgrace.
• “Cultural Quarter “ is hidden and the whole place is really downtrodden looking and un attractive.
• Delta sensory gardens built out in an industrial estate???? WTF
• Too many surface car parks
• The fairgreen drags people away from the traditional core of the town along tullow street/Dublin street and the rest of town is suffering as a result.
• The centre of town is unattractive with a lot of traffic and no public spaces.
• No more big stores(dunes etc. at the retail park end of town) – the castle end of town at the other end of tullow street should be where focu
• The beautiful rivers in Carlow are ignored in the town centre… why don’t they CPO the ****e buildings on kennedy street and create an enclosed park/space on the river up the castle.. a few compulsory purchase orders and some foresight?
• Cant think of many places in the town where I can sit outside a café and enjoy a nice view of anything really – wouldent really attract tourists.
Suggestions:
Everyone start kicking up a stink.
Tax breaks and living over the shop scheme etc.
Get rid of the car park in front of the dinn ri and do something much nicer and provide underground car parking elsewhere.
Try Get one of the colleges to develop a part of a campus down at the castle end of tullow street breath some life into the town centre.
Bike rental scheme anyone..Carlow Bikes??
Develop the barrow way similar for tourists similar to the green way in mayo.
Cant think of any more at the minute. Thoughts??

I had a walk around Carlow yesterday, for the first time in years, and was about to paste a rant. I happened to see your rant, and unfortunately it looks as though nothing has improved in the years since you wrote it. The town is a planning shambles; and should be used worldwide as a training aid for 'how not to plan a town'.

road_high

Well still it goes on. I believe TK Maxx should be "encouraged" into the town centre (i.e. old Darrers/Houston store) site- rather than a new build out in Hannover retail park. Crazy in my opinion

Jed and Dave

yeah interesting that this is brought up again, not much has changed in the period since and people should bring it up with their local representatives.

I think the town centre is a "drive through" retail offering as no one lives in the centre of town - how many people live on tullow street or Dublin street? not many id imagine, no wonder footfall is suffering. The elephant in the room is that the population in the centre of town has been falling for years while the population overall has been growing.

The development of the TK max or this penneys refurbishment another example, why was some sort of residential element not included in the application? its a town centre site- but the attitude is "ahh sure isn't it great we are getting a tk maxx". The more people live in town the safer the streets would be.

The air quality in town is awful with all the traffic(because most people don't live within walking distance of the town centre)- that is a direct result of building housing estates on the edge of town while the centre is derelict.

look at the town on a map - half the town has been built OUTSIDE the ringroad (to the east and north) and you don't need to be an expert to see that. If I was starting a business now id locate it on the o brien road which is where most of the people live in the town. Development needs to start in the centre and work out not as in Carlow where only the fringes are being developed.


One really positive development is that the local council are looking to engage a dedicated town architect which would be a real positive move, if you look on youtube the work a town architect has done in Westport would really encourage you.

SligoBrewer

Those people living on the outskirts of town should be encouraged to cycle. They all are 2k ish from the town.

However the cycling infrastructure in the town or the behaviour of drivers in the town wouldn't exactly be favourable to this.

road_high

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Those people living on the outskirts of town should be encouraged to cycle. They all are 2k ish from the town.

However the cycling infrastructure in the town or the behaviour of drivers in the town wouldn't exactly be favourable to this.

Well that’s the same in all our towns and cities. Not just a Carlow issue. Which doesn’t have a local town bus service when smaller town like Sligo, athlone and Tralee do

lausp

I think ideally there should be some effort to pedestrianise the entirety of Tullow Street. Currently with parking allowed on one side, it's too narrow anyway.

There then should be some sort of covering over the street from the potatoe market to Dublin street section. This would allow a similar ambience to Kieran street in Kilkenny where coffee shops and cafes have outdoor seating and people can wander through without worrying about traffic.

In addition to this I would then remove the traffic lights at the Plaza and install a roundabout. Ultimately the volume of traffic in the town is not significant, but cars idling at lights badly contributes to the air quality as noted by another poster. I'd also change the pelican crossings to zebra crossings, like used on High Street in Kilkenny.

Entrance to the Fairgreen from Barrack street should be blocked to traffic too.

Tullow Street needs a large revamp in general. Many buildings are in a bad state of repair, and generally the appearance of the entire street needs a big investment.

There are obviously serious substance abuse problems in the town also. I witness fights and people having serious arguments on the street on a regular basis during the day.

A real pity to see the decline in the town but there appears to be plenty of opportunities to improve the place. The building opposite the plaza, old houses on Barrack Street and Penny's area are all well located to inject a bit more life back in to the area and link the town centre to Tullow Street. It of course requires the correct planning and investment to work.

Fiatx19

Whoever gave permission to build the shamrock plaza should be shot by firing squad for crimes against Carlow town!

It's an ugly monstrosity in the heart of the town. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

I thought the post office/social welfare building was bad but shamrock plaza takes ugly in carlow to a whole new level.

ScallionAyter

Fiatx19 wrote: »

Whoever gave permission to build the shamrock plaza should be shot by firing squad for crimes against Carlow town!

It's an ugly monstrosity in the heart of the town. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

I thought the post office/social welfare building was bad but shamrock plaza takes ugly in carlow to a whole new level.

I like it! It's a statement of ambition and scale, and better than what was there before. If Carlow Town wants to be a city someday, it'll need more buildings like that. Very little on that end of Tullow street is worth preserving. The sooner a lot of them are knocked and replaced with modern retail buildings the better.
If you look at most of the commercial buildings currently for sale in the town centre, they're absolutely decrepid and serious money pits to renovate.

Real Life

ScallionAyter wrote: »

I like it! It's a statement of ambition and scale, and better than what was there before. If Carlow Town wants to be a city someday, it'll need more buildings like that. Very little on that end of Tullow street is worth preserving. The sooner a lot of them are knocked and replaced with modern retail buildings the better.
If you look at most of the commercial buildings currently for sale in the town centre, they're absolutely decrepid and serious money pits to renovate.

Yea I don't mind it myself but I get the sticks out like a sore thumb comment, although I think thats more of a reflection on the old buildings around it, many of which are in terrible condition. It would be great if there was a plan in place to upgrade certain areas and done in the right way I think the town could look really well, I think it has potential but I cant see anything changing anytime soon.

Agent Coulson

An Bord Pleanala have refused planning permission for TK Max to go ahead after Fairgreen objected to the council giving planning permission.