Another P&D Thread

jaggiebunnet

Looking for peoples thoughts and experiences. I have been building a base for the past 3 or 4 months at around 40 miles a week in prep for starting the P&D upto 55 Plan. However detailed reading of the plan it has 3 days rest in there and I would like to be running every day almost if possible, I had done this last year with Daniels plan until circumstances changed and I had to stop training for a while. My question is would I be better to:

a. Stick with upto 55 plan as is
b. Use upto 55 as basis and add in other easy days as I feel I can
c. Step up to 50-70
d. Go back to Daniels, who I did see good results with for 10 milers last year.

I am training for Cork Marathon so don't expect to start plan till end of Jan. And in terms of long runs completed a 13 mile at the weeknd about 30-40 seconds slower than MP quite comfortably.

demfad

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

Looking for peoples thoughts and experiences. I have been building a base for the past 3 or 4 months at around 40 miles a week in prep for starting the P&D upto 55 Plan. However detailed reading of the plan it has 3 days rest in there and I would like to be running every day almost if possible, I had done this last year with Daniels plan until circumstances changed and I had to stop training for a while. My question is would I be better to:

a. Stick with upto 55 plan as is
b. Use upto 55 as basis and add in other easy days as I feel I can
c. Step up to 50-70
d. Go back to Daniels, who I did see good results with for 10 milers last year.

I am training for Cork Marathon so don't expect to start plan till end of Jan. And in terms of long runs completed a 13 mile at the weeknd about 30-40 seconds slower than MP quite comfortably.

If 40 miles per week is the max mileage you have done then a jump to 70 is too much. The important sessions are probably common to both schedules so its just a matter of you manipulating the easy days. You could add a couple of easy 20 minute runs to the schedule (one at a time if needs be) to give you 6 days out of 7.

If the schedule is only 4 days out of 7, id suggest that this a weakness in it.

Depending on your average mileage, or the max you have handled till now, you could take a look at the up to 70 mile schedule.
If for example you thought you could manage 65 mpw, then you could pare off 5 mpw from easy runs and still run 6/7 or 7/7.

If you have time, quickly write down the same week from each schedule and we may be able to give you options, or suggestions to make a 65 mpw schedule or 60 mpw schedule.

Edit: just saw Murph_Ds post. If its 2 days a week rest simply add an extra easy/recovery running day as he suggests. You can control your mileage that way too.

Murph_D

Most weeks of P&D55 have only two rest days (three rest days only in week one and in one of the taper weeks). Don't think there's any harm at all at adding an extra easy or recovery day into those weeks. Your base is a little shy of the 45/week recommended for the 70 mile version of the plan.

Best of luck with it. (Probably should be doing those long runs a bit slower if you're talking 30-40 secs per mile!)

(Post crossed with demfad's)

jaggiebunnet

Sorry, yep Murph_D you are correct it moves to only 2 rest days. I feel myself that the jump to the 70 plan would be too much so i think PD55 with maybe one extra day of recovery run 4/5 miles is probably best. Thanks!

Amadeus 2014

Couple of points to add...

First up is that going from 40 -> 55 miles a week is a fairly decent bump in mileage and the P&D plans are among the best there are so if there are rest periods in there then it's probably not a bad idea to respect them as proper recovery is every bit as important to training as the running. Taking the time out will aid recovery, prevent injury and also just keep you fresh and motivated.

Second (and slightly contradictory!) point is that rest does not have to equal putting your feet up. You could cycle, swim, do some core work - all activities that will be of benefit on the day but won't increase the risk of an overuse injury.

jaggiebunnet

Amadeus 2014 wrote: »

Couple of points to add...

First up is that going from 40 -> 55 miles a week is a fairly decent bump in mileage and the P&D plans are among the best there are so if there are rest periods in there then it's probably not a bad idea to respect them as proper recovery is every bit as important to training as the running. Taking the time out will aid recovery, prevent injury and also just keep you fresh and motivated.

Second (and slightly contradictory!) point is that rest does not have to equal putting your feet up. You could cycle, swim, do some core work - all activities that will be of benefit on the day but won't increase the risk of an overuse injury.

I don't disagree but I loathe cycling and swimming and wouldn't have time for either anyway. Will do core work probably not as much as I should but I will ☺

adrian522

In what sense would you not have time for cycling or swimming but you would have time for running?

Murph_D

Just to be clear I was only suggesting an extra easy/recovery day in those few weeks where there are three rest days! I fully agree that respecting the rest/cross days is probably the best idea, as suggested above, especially if you are coming off a low base (no idea what your longer term base is -- i.e. over the past 12-24 months, that makes a huge difference too).

Also, if this is your first marathon, I would not recommend this plan, which is aimed at more experienced runners (It's all outlined pretty clearly in the book).

Best of luck with it.

jaggiebunnet

adrian522 wrote: »

In what sense would you not have time for cycling or swimming but you would have time for running?

in terms that i can go when i want and don't have to pay for anything.

Plus as I said I really don't like either.

demfad

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

in terms that i can go when i want and don't have to pay for anything.

Plus as I said I really don't like either.

Just to be clear. Are you averaging 40 miles per week now or is that your Max? Also, when is the marathon? If you like to run almost every day, and you have been doing that then IMO you should continue to do so, adapting the plan slightly to accommodate.
Edit: cork marathon so may I think
Edit2: Murph_D's question about your longer term base is important i.e mileage over last 24 months?
Also what mileage were you on for Daniels and was the disruption injury related?

Dub13

I did the P&D 55 for DCM15 and for rest days I just hit the gym, served me well with a PB. Not sure if I will stick with the 55 or step up for DCM16.

jaggiebunnet

demfad wrote: »

Just to be clear. Are you averaging 40 miles per week now or is that your Max? Also, when is the marathon? If you like to run almost every day, and you have been doing that then IMO you should continue to do so, adapting the plan slightly to accommodate.
Edit: cork marathon so may I think
Edit2: Murph_D's question about your longer term base is important i.e mileage over last 24 months?
Also what mileage were you on for Daniels and was the disruption injury related?

I am avg 40 miles per week now and have been for the past few months, when on daniels plan i was around the same,not injury related why i had to pull back. cork is start of june yep. in the past couple of years I guess I have done about 2500 miles which would avg out to around 24 miles a week? I think adding in the one additional recovery run is probably an ok idea, just wondered what other folk had done.

demfad

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

I am avg 40 miles per week now and have been for the past few months, when on daniels plan i was around the same,not injury related why i had to pull back. cork is start of june yep. in the past couple of years I guess I have done about 2500 miles which would avg out to around 24 miles a week? I think adding in the one additional recovery run is probably an ok idea, just wondered what other folk had done.

I think you'd be fine with that. I would add it as a minimum to the schedule to start with, like a 20min jog so its definatly recovery. Then it can naturally increase up to about 35mins (IMO) but still as a very easy, enjoyable recovery pace.
You'll have no issue maxing at 55 with your background. The extra recovery run should bring you towards 60, which will be fine as a max. The mileage should be a slight challenge as that forces you to adapt. Just dont do more mileage than youve now decided. Dont go too mad on any run. Just build it slowly and consistently. Its actually the quickest way to get very fit!