Supporting Sergiu Ciobanu for Rio

rom

Spotted this on Facebook. I don't know Sergiu in any way.
A motivational speaker for 500 euro I would say is a steal for the right business. (details below)

Some information on him http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics/billy-keane-clonmels-sergiu-ciobanu-living-the-emigrants-dream-after-years-of-pain-34260364.html

He page that he is looking for support is beloe

https://www.pledgesports.org/projects/marathon-running-funding-sergiu-ciobanu/

sconhome

I don't understand why the sports council or the lotto aren't funding our Rio athletes properly.

kit3

sconhome wrote: »

I don't understand why the sports council or the lotto aren't funding our Rio athletes properly.

+1 Would have thought it was a given in relation to Rio

Dodge

Only so much money to go around in fairness. It isn't like sports is a big election issue for politicians

Murph_D

Dodge wrote: »

Only so much money to go around in fairness. It isn't like sports is a big election issue for politicians

How much money is there to go around though? Would have thought the lotto is generating large amounts, more of which might be allocated to athletics.

Dodge

I'm not arguing that it shouldn't go to sports but clearly, there are limits and all sports think they should get more. I'd imagine this is Sergiu's first yer as being eligible for funding and that he will receive some

Krusty_Clown

Funding is based on results, not qualifications. Sergiu has not been selected for Rio yet. If he is selected, I'd imagine that his Olympics-based expenses will be covered. But right now, he's in the same boat as all of the other Olympic marathon hopefuls. Not saying that this is right (I've pledged), just that it's the way it is. We have very few carded Irish athletes (10 to be exact in 2015). All others have to do it through sponsorship, funding and self-investment. And yes, this is largely the same position as most other sports.

Chivito550

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Funding is based on results, not qualifications. Sergiu has not been selected for Rio yet. If he is selected, I'd imagine that his Olympics-based expenses will be covered. But right now, he's in the same boat as all of the other Olympic marathon hopefuls. Not saying that this is right (I've pledged), just that it's the way it is. We have very few carded Irish athletes (10 to be exact in 2015). All others have to do it through sponsorship, funding and self-investment. And yes, this is largely the same position as most other sports.

I never fully get the criteria for funding. 40k is classified as “Podium”, which is at World or Olympic level. Supposedly you have to get to that level in order to get the funding, but isn’t the purpose of funding to get to that level, rather than it just being a reward?

There was a time when Derval O’Rourke and David Gillick were on 40k despite never medaling at World or Olympics (O’Rourke was close). I guess they looked at it as potential to medal, but in that case English and Barr should be on 40K as I believe they are as likely to medal in Rio as Gillick and O’Rourke were in London. In fact they have a better chance IMO.

Dodge

But "potential" opens up AI and the Sports Council to loads of complains (including legal)

"podium" includes medalling at European level AFAIK

Chivito550

Dodge wrote: »

But "potential" opens up AI and the Sports Council to loads of complains (including legal)

"podium" includes medalling at European level AFAIK

Nah it doesn't. Otherwise English would be on 40k.

Also Heffernan has been on 40k long before he won a medal, and Gillick never even won a European outdoor medal.

shels4ever

Chivito550 wrote: »

I never fully get the criteria for funding. 40k is classified as “Podium”, which is at World or Olympic level. Supposedly you have to get to that level in order to get the funding, but isn’t the purpose of funding to get to that level, rather than it just being a reward?

There was a time when Derval O’Rourke and David Gillick were on 40k despite never medaling at World or Olympics (O’Rourke was close). I guess they looked at it as potential to medal, but in that case English and Barr should be on 40K as I believe they are as likely to medal in Rio as Gillick and O’Rourke were in London. In fact they have a better chance IMO.

My view would be anyone that is capable of making an Olympic or world final should be on 40k. That been said i read last week some boxers complaining of the lack of support they get too and they were on 40k.

Dodge

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/High_Performance/High_Performance_Unit/International%20Carding%20Scheme/Carding-Scheme-Guidelines-2015.pdf

Sports council generally define as this

Three general classification categories will be used to determine
the levels of support for which athletes may be eligible:

• Podium (Olympic/Paralympic medal zone athletes)
• World Class (Olympic/Paralympic finalists)
• International (Qualification for the Olympics/Paralympics)

Athletics ireland are responsible for athletes. Their guidelines here
https://athleticsireland.app.box.com/16-OGPPpolicy

It's fairly complicated and does take in a huge amount of factors. Here are what they describe as the "finishes" for each level

Podium
Top 8 Olympic Games or World Championships
World Class
Top 6 European Championships
Top 12 Olympic Games or World Championships
Top 6 Track/8 Field World Indoor Championships
Top 12 World Cross Country + no Perf Std
Top 6 World Race Walking Cup
International
Top 8 European Championships
Top 16 Olympic Games or World Championships
Top 10 World Race Walking Cup
Top 16 World Cross Country Champs + no Perf Std
Top 6 European Indoor Championships
Top 6 European Cross Country + no no Perf Std
Top 8 European Race Walking Cup
Development
Top 16 European Championships
Top 8 European U23 Championships
Top 8 NCAA Championships (XC/Out/Ind Track)
Top 8 European Indoors
Top 25 World Race Walking Cup
Top 16 European Race Walking Cup
Top 8 World University Games
Top 8 European U23 Cross Country + no Perf Std
Emerging Talent
Top 12 World Junior Championships
Top 30 World Junior Race Walking Cup
Top 8 European Junior Championships
Top 8 World Youth Championships
Top 8 European Youth Championships
Top 8 Youth Olympic Games
Top 8 European Junior Cross Country + no Perf Std
Top 16 European Junior Race Walking Cup
Top 8 European Youth Olympic Festival

Chivito550

shels4ever wrote: »

My view would be anyone that is capable of making an Olympic or world final should be on 40k. That been said i read last week some boxers complaining of the lack of support they get too and they were on 40k.

A problem with sports funding is that it doesn’t take difficulty of achieving a medal into consideration. There’s no doubt that depth in athletics is a lot higher, and is more global than other sports. I’d weight a bronze in 400m hurdles higher than a gold in amateur boxing, but the carding criteria obviously doesn’t look at it like this. A medal in shooting would be seen as the same as a medal in 800m.

Even within athletics, the difficulty varies. The depth in some of the track events (100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, hurdles, among others) is no doubt higher than in the race walk, women’s 3000m steeplechase. This is not a dig at the athletes who excel in these events, as they are phenomenal athletes. But I believe if Thomas Barr or Mark English were to medal in Rio (they won’t, but they are the type of athletes who if they get through the bloodbath that is the semi-finals, then they are in with a shout) I would put that up there among the greatest achievements in Irish sport. But in the eyes of the carding, and I suppose the casual follower, it would be behind Michael Carruth and Katie Taylor.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

A problem with sports funding is that it doesn’t take difficulty of achieving a medal into consideration. There’s no doubt that depth in athletics is a lot higher, and is more global than other sports. I’d weight a bronze in 400m hurdles higher than a gold in amateur boxing, but the carding criteria obviously doesn’t look at it like this. A medal in shooting would be seen as the same as a medal in 800m.

Even within athletics, the difficulty varies. The depth in some of the track events (100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, hurdles, among others) is no doubt higher than in the race walk, women’s 3000m steeplechase. This is not a dig at the athletes who excel in these events, as they are phenomenal athletes. But I believe if Thomas Barr or Mark English were to medal in Rio (they won’t, but they are the type of athletes who if they get through the bloodbath that is the semi-finals, then they are in with a shout) I would put that up there among the greatest achievements in Irish sport. But in the eyes of the carding, and I suppose the casual follower, it would be behind Michael Carruth and Katie Taylor.

I think no matter which sport they are competing, they all will have to take time off to achieve their best result.

But the problem for a runner, is they will have to travel more for their training, not too sure about a boxer or shooter etc.

Krusty_Clown

Chivito550 wrote: »

A problem with sports funding is that it doesn’t take difficulty of achieving a medal into consideration. There’s no doubt that depth in athletics is a lot higher, and is more global than other sports. I’d weight a bronze in 400m hurdles higher than a gold in amateur boxing, but the carding criteria obviously doesn’t look at it like this. A medal in shooting would be seen as the same as a medal in 800m.
.

I suppose part of the logic is to get medals on the table, and in that kind of scenario, investing in more achievable medals makes more sense. Joe Soap doesn't care whether the medals come from synchronized swimming or baton twirling - achievement is measured in medals, not in difficulty. In that kind of environment, the Olympic marathon hopefuls will never see any kind of carding/investment, as they are very unlikely to feature in medal conversations. This model is particularly tough on the likes of Barr and English, but you'd imagine that results in the Euro champs, national records, and relay results would provide some justification for funding.

Chivito550

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I suppose part of the logic is to get medals on the table, and in that kind of scenario, investing in more achievable medals makes more sense. Joe Soap doesn't care whether the medals come from synchronized swimming or baton twirling - achievement is measured in medals, not in difficulty. In that kind of environment, the Olympic marathon hopefuls will never see any kind of carding/investment, as they are very unlikely to feature in medal conversations. This model is particularly tough on the likes of Barr and English, but you'd imagine that results in the Euro champs, national records, and relay results would provide some justification for funding.

Yep can't argue with any of that. I'm amazed we haven't targeted track cycling like the Brits have. There's relatively soft medals there for the taking, as that's a first world sport if ever there was one, and so much of the world is cut off from it.

Notwork Error

Chivito550 wrote: »

Yep can't argue with any of that. I'm amazed we haven't targeted track cycling like the Brits have. There's relatively soft medals there for the taking, as that's a first world sport if ever there was one, and so much of the world is cut off from it.

I think you seriously underestimate the strength of other sports here. Track cycling is far from weak, Bradley Wiggins and Mark Cavendish came from track cycling just to give you an idea, a yellow jersey winner at the tdf and one of the most dominant sprinters ever to sit on a bike and so many more including some of the greatest time trial riders ever.

Those guys are machines and the sport is far from weak.

dna_leri

Talking of track cycling, they do not have it much better, see this story about MArtyn Irvine, Ireland's World Champion.

https://medium.com/@KCsixtyseven/martyn-irvine-991602cd763f#

Chivito550

Notwork Error wrote: »

I think you seriously underestimate the strength of other sports here. Track cycling is far from weak, Bradley Wiggins and Mark Cavendish came from track cycling just to give you an idea, a yellow jersey winner at the tdf and one of the most dominant sprinters ever to sit on a bike and so many more including some of the greatest time trial riders ever.

Those guys are machines and the sport is far from weak.

I said relatively soft. There's no easy medals in the Olympics. Some are just easier than others. The Brits had no great history in the sport up to and including 1996, and look at them now. If we put a similar percentage of total investment into it, then perhaps we'd win a medal every Olympics. Need a Velodrome first though!

Notwork Error

Chivito550 wrote: »

The Brits had no great history in the sport up to and including 1996

Chris Boardman and Graeme Obree would disagree with that, Two of the greatest track cyclists ever and one of the greatest road time-trialist of all-time and I would argue that their battle for the hour world record on the track was the spark that kicked off track cycling, the money helps only after the interest is created.

Clearlier

Chivito550 wrote: »

Nah it doesn't. Otherwise English would be on 40k.

Also Heffernan has been on 40k long before he won a medal, and Gillick never even won a European outdoor medal.

IIRC the criteria were changed a few years ago. Prior to that indoor medals had the same status as outdoor ones which is why Gillick and Derval received relatively high levels of funding at one stage.

Ideally money would be directed towards services and coaching so that it could easily be made available to larger number of athletes but we don't really have the scale to operate in that fashion unfortunately.

Chivito550

Notwork Error wrote: »

Chris Boardman and Graeme Obree would disagree with that, Two of the greatest track cyclists ever and one of the greatest road time-trialist of all-time and I would argue that their battle for the hour world record on the track was the spark that kicked off track cycling, the money helps only after the interest is created.

Ah here now!

Medals in Track Cycling:

Los Angeles 1984: 0 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Seoul 1988: 0 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Barcelona 1992: 1 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Atlanta 1996: 0 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Sydney 2000: 1 Gold 1 Silver 2 Bronze
Athens 2004: 2 Gold 1 Silver 1 Bronze
Beijing 2008: 7 Gold 3 Silver 2 Bronze
London 2012: 7 Gold 1 Silver 1 Bronze

Chris Boardman was an exception. Him aside it was a pretty bleak return for GB in terms of medals. They started investing in it after the dreadful 1996 Olympics where GB won just one gold medal, and 15 in total. Coming closer to London 2012 investment increased. In each of the last 2 Olympic Games they have won 7 out of the 10 gold medals on offer. They took the sport seriously and started cleaning up. There is no way that would happen in athletics.

Notwork Error

Chivito550 wrote: »

Ah here now!

Medals in Track Cycling:

Los Angeles 1984: 0 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Seoul 1988: 0 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Barcelona 1992: 1 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Atlanta 1996: 0 Gold 0 Silver 0 Bronze
Sydney 2000: 1 Gold 1 Silver 2 Bronze
Athens 2004: 2 Gold 1 Silver 1 Bronze
Beijing 2008: 7 Gold 3 Silver 2 Bronze
London 2012: 7 Gold 1 Silver 1 Bronze

Chris Boardman was an exception. Him aside it was a pretty bleak return for GB in terms of medals. They started investing in it after the dreadful 1996 Olympics where GB won just one gold medal, and 15 in total. Coming closer to London 2012 investment increased. In each of the last 2 Olympic Games they have won 7 out of the 10 gold medals on offer. They took the sport seriously and started cleaning up. There is no way that would happen in athletics.

Jamaica-sprinting
East Africans-distance running

This is coming from a cycling fanatic, Obree v Boardman in the early 90's was the kickstarter in British cycling (front page news) just like anybody who knows anything about athletics knows Abebe Bikila kickstarted the East African rise in distance running from a place with no history. I suggest you look up UCI world championship medal table to see what those guys were doing before 96, they were destroying world records on the track and brought huge news stories and hype to their battles, they were the spark that lot the British cycling revolution. Not just Boardman but Obree won world champs medals on the track and they were dominant on the roads bringing out huge crowds to velodrome and domestic TT's. Building interest in young people is what creates champions down the road and that's what they did. You can pull out all the stats you want but any cycling fan knows that.

Is road cycling soft? Hell no, and trackies have been beating pure roadies at the Olympic road race and TT for years. Competitive swimming is a very niche sport but that doesn't make it soft considering Phelps is regarded as one of the greatest Olympians ever. If Ireland ploughed millions into swimming, would they start dominating? No because the interest isn't there. Having all the facilities(even though I believe they should be there) won't create champions without the publicity.

On Sergiu, It isn't easy to get there but he should reap some of the rewards once he does, he deserves them but so do many other athletes in different disciplines and as a small country, there's only so much money to go around and into sport. A lot of people could say why does an athlete get money when others don't get anything to follow their dreams*.

Devil's advocate*

Chivito550

Notwork Error wrote: »

Jamaica-sprinting
East Africans-distance running

This is coming from a cycling fanatic, Obree v Boardman in the early 90's was the kickstarter in British cycling (front page news) just like anybody who knows anything about athletics knows Abebe Bikila kickstarted the East African rise in distance running from a place with no history. I suggest you look up UCI world championship medal table to see what those guys were doing before 96, they were destroying world records on the track and brought huge news stories and hype to their battles, they were the spark that lot the British cycling revolution. Not just Boardman but Obree won world champs medals on the track and they were dominant on the roads bringing out huge crowds to velodrome and domestic TT's. Building interest in young people is what creates champions down the road and that's what they did. You can pull out all the stats you want but any cycling fan knows that.

Is road cycling soft? Hell no, and trackies have been beating pure roadies at the Olympic road race and TT for years. Competitive swimming is a very niche sport but that doesn't make it soft considering Phelps is regarded as one of the greatest Olympians ever. If Ireland ploughed millions into swimming, would they start dominating? No because the interest isn't there. Having all the facilities(even though I believe they should be there) won't create champions without the publicity.

On Sergiu, It isn't easy to get there but he should reap some of the rewards once he does, he deserves them but so do many other athletes in different disciplines and as a small country, there's only so much money to go around and into sport. A lot of people could say why does an athlete get money when others don't get anything to follow their dreams*.

Devil's advocate*

I hear your point, but Jamaica and East Africa is a bit different. Jamaica were winning medals throughout the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s. Just not that many gold ones. East Africa is more of a cultural thing. The Olympics was once quite a first world affair (for want of a better description), and the third world nations didn’t play a huge part, probably for economic and cultural (for women) reasons.

GB on the otherhand, outside of a couple of world class track cyclists were achieving little as recently as 20 years ago. Yes, I’m sure these guys sparked interest, but GB invested huge sums into this sport (maybe sparked by these guys. It may have shown them what they could achieve if they really focused on it). You don’t go from 1 medal in 4 Olympics, to 70% of all gold medals over the last 2 Games, without seriously heavy funding and talent identification. Victoria Pendleton would be an example of this.

As I said, no Olympic medals are easy, but there’s no doubt GB found a niche here and are cleaning up.

Dodge

Sounds like you're advocating taking funding away from athletics and into cycling here Chivito

Simply put, we don't have anywhere near the finances available to make a serious dent in any sport even if we spent everything on one of them. So we make do with little bits of money for a wide range of athletes

Chivito550

Dodge wrote: »

Sounds like you're advocating taking funding away from athletics and into cycling here Chivito

Simply put, we don't have anywhere near the finances available to make a serious dent in any sport even if we spent everything on one of them. So we make do with little bits of money for a wide range of athletes

Not really advocating anything. Just saying I’m surprised that we haven’t targeted it more, when medals in each sport are viewed as equal in the eyes of the carding system.

Dodge

We might have thought about it but the investment needed for a velodrome hasn't been there. Athletics is seen as a cheaper sport to fund in many ways