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Getting a job in tech/IT no degree?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    my friend wrote: »
    My original point was that certain pontificators here would have binned these guys (Gates, Jobs) job applications, I'm merely demonstrating the lazy filter that they utilise
    Just to nip this in the bud.
    The purpose of going to college is ultimately to get a job. If you're starting a business that looks like it'll be a success, you don't need college, you already have a job.
    Bill Gates et al have this in common.
    If Bill or Steve or any of the other examples didn't get a job while they were in the middle of their studies, they would have finished it out.

    Also, college teaches you a little about a lot.

    It's rare than anyone starts a job with a full understanding of what they're supposed to be doing, but with a solid education, you should at least have some idea of what's going on and know where to find relevant info to fill in the gaps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭livedadream


    there is a great programme going at the moment i dont know where you are based my friend did it in cork,
    6 months in college and then 2 years i think with a company like an apprenticeship type thing.

    really good to upskill and get back into work,

    check out FIT fasttrack to IT their Associate profession course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    OP if it's programming/software development you want to get into, I think you'd be mad not to go to college. Firstly I think it'll do you personally good. You're a young lad yet :) From a career point of view, if you don't have a degree yeah sure you can probably work your way up but it will be harder. Make no mistake. I don't know why you would intentionally cripple yourself at the off.

    Don't get me wrong, I look back at the academic side of college as a joke compared to what I actually learned in the business but it *was* a grounding and showed that I could stick something long term. More than that it opened doors, it might be unfair but a whole host of sectors of the industry will be closed to you (at least initially).

    Good luck with whatever you decide.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    TheBiz wrote: »
    My dad works in Hp security (loves computers, fixes phones on his own time etc) and he was told if someone can programme and code, they can get a job within the week at Hp..

    Security guard in Leixlip? Because you're not getting a job in Leixlip without a fluent second language, experience or degree.

    And to most of the people who recommend just getting out there without education, it's important to remember that the job market in the 90's and early 2000's is a lot different then the job market now for both programming and IT infra. I'm 30, but I'm aware of multiple 20 year olds with a passion for computers and no job.

    And like others said, you hit a glass ceiling in terms of wages as HR departments chuck the CV when you don't have the degree. I should be starting mine next year while working because of this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Musicman2000


    Security guard in Leixlip? Because you're not getting a job in Leixlip without a fluent second language, experience or degree.

    And to most of the people who recommend just getting out there without education, it's important to remember that the job market in the 90's and early 2000's is a lot different then the job market now for both programming and IT infra. I'm 30, but I'm aware of multiple 20 year olds with a passion for computers and no job.

    And like others said, you hit a glass ceiling in terms of wages as HR departments chuck the CV when you don't have the degree. I should be starting mine next year while working because of this.

    Cuddles worth don't believe everything you read about HR chucking cvs in the bin because you don't have a degree. There is plenty of other options to get into IT without a degree. As mentioned above and as much as it kills me to say this when it comes to writing code you will need some sort of education to give you the basics .

    I went back as a mature student and the degree i received didn't help me what so ever but i had a lot of experience and industry certs which is more important if you want to go down the System Admin or Networking route. Another very important point that hasn't been mentioned here the IT market is flooded with graduates at the moment making it hard to get your foot in the door.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Cuddles worth don't believe everything you read about HR chucking cvs in the bin because you don't have a degree.

    I've actually gotten responses from HR departments telling me that I did not meet the degree requirement for jobs that I am professionally qualified for. It limits your options, both at the start and right through your career. But just talking specifically about HP(HPI or HPE), I know you are not getting a job there without a degree or nepotism. They are only interested in hiring Graduates at the moment.

    The easiest option at the moment is to get a Comp Science degree and apply for work after.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Cuddles worth don't believe everything you read about HR chucking cvs in the bin because you don't have a degree.

    That's how it's done.

    You have 200 CVs for a job. Reading them all is a waste of time, so you add filters to the job description to leave yourself with 20 or 30.

    Then hire from that.

    There's an anecdote that tells the story of an employer who splits the pile of CVs in two, then throws one pile in the bin because he wants to only hire a lucky person :D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Musicman2000


    eeguy wrote: »
    That's how it's done.

    You have 200 CVs for a job. Reading them all is a waste of time, so you add filters to the job description to leave yourself with 20 or 30.

    Then hire from that.

    There's an anecdote that tells the story of an employer who splits the pile of CVs in two, then throws one pile in the bin because he wants to only hire a lucky person :D:D

    Not where i work:D Degrees or experience with certs .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭dutopia


    Some of the key concepts of computer science you will learn at university and they will make you a better programmer in the long term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Not where i work:D Degrees or experience with certs .

    So if you got hundreds of applications youd read them all?
    You wouldn't filter them?

    I was looking at Intel grad jobs recently. Won't even accept your CV without a masters.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    eeguy wrote: »
    So if you got hundreds of applications youd read them all?
    You wouldn't filter them?

    I was looking at Intel grad jobs recently. Won't even accept your CV without a masters.

    Whereas in the noughties I got a job in HP with neither a degree nor certs, just experience!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    eeguy wrote: »
    So if you got hundreds of applications youd read them all?
    You wouldn't filter them?

    I was looking at Intel grad jobs recently. Won't even accept your CV without a masters.

    But those are specific grad jobs. Fact is you need an engineering degree for a proper engineering job, which software dev isn't. People rarely self teach themselves electronic engineering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    But those are specific grad jobs. Fact is you need an engineering degree for a proper engineering job, which software dev isn't. People rarely self teach themselves electronic engineering.

    That's is true in many cases although there are certain exception as you may expect.

    The point I was trying to get across was more that big companys are using degrees to a greater extent to filter CVs, so even if you're a promising engineer you won't get in with only a higher degree. IMO it's an arbitrary barrier to entry to make HRs job easier.

    (Not that I'm bitter that I couldn't apply :pac: )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Stheno wrote: »
    Whereas in the noughties I got a job in HP with neither a degree nor certs, just experience!

    I got a job in HP 5 years ago with just experience and professional certifications. But in the OP's position, he needs the experience. And when hiring for those positions, they filter candidates by education primarily.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7 mee!


    Ive currently in college studying a software/ cyber security course. Im repeating first year cause i failed last year and the reason i came back is because im determined to work in the IT area and have a huge interest for it.

    Im now considering dropping out again and doing a apprenticeship in software development.

    Would anyone have any advise on if it would be a good idea to do so or not.?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    Have you got an apprenticeship? Unless you have, I would stay in college till you get one. Wont look great going into an interview saying you failed first year and then dropped out the second time.
    Cant say I've seen any many apprenticeships advertised, I have seen Internships, but those are really only got by students (placements) or graduates looking for experience. I would guess if apprenticeships were available, then graduates would be applying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7 mee!


    Senna wrote: »
    Have you got an apprenticeship? Unless you have, I would stay in college till you get one. Wont look great going into an interview saying you failed first year and then dropped out the second time.
    Cant say I've seen any many apprenticeships advertised, I have seen Internships, but those are really only got by students (placements) or graduates looking for experience. I would guess if apprenticeships were available, then graduates would be applying.

    Im waiting to be called for the interview/testing stage. Yeah its a new type of apprenticeship, think this could be the first year? Its a two year apprenticeship, however after 2 years you only have a level 6 qualification and 18 months experience working with an IT company.
    If I did 4 years of college I will have a level 8 qualification and about 30 weeks experience ( CoOp ) So Im very undecided on whats the best thing to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    mee! wrote: »
    Im waiting to be called for the interview/testing stage. Yeah its a new type of apprenticeship, think this could be the first year? Its a two year apprenticeship, however after 2 years you only have a level 6 qualification and 18 months experience working with an IT company.
    If I did 4 years of college I will have a level 8 qualification and about 30 weeks experience ( CoOp ) So Im very undecided on whats the best thing to do.

    You may be able to use your level 6 cert to get you into 3rd year of a college course, provided the content is similar and they have space.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    mee! wrote: »
    Im waiting to be called for the interview/testing stage. Yeah its a new type of apprenticeship, think this could be the first year? Its a two year apprenticeship, however after 2 years you only have a level 6 qualification and 18 months experience working with an IT company.
    If I did 4 years of college I will have a level 8 qualification and about 30 weeks experience ( CoOp ) So Im very undecided on whats the best thing to do.

    Did not know that, I would definitely try for the apprenticeship, but stay in college incase you don't get it.
    As above, 2 years of apprenticeship and you could go back to college after, but 2 years learning in the industry is really invaluable and i would jump at the chance. Speaking as a 2nd year Software Dev student.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Musicman2000


    mee! wrote: »
    Im waiting to be called for the interview/testing stage. Yeah its a new type of apprenticeship, think this could be the first year? Its a two year apprenticeship, however after 2 years you only have a level 6 qualification and 18 months experience working with an IT company.
    If I did 4 years of college I will have a level 8 qualification and about 30 weeks experience ( CoOp ) So Im very undecided on whats the best thing to do.

    This it the apprenticeship scheme it was launched during the summer. It's for people that don't feel college is the route for them to. So the majority, is on the job with 6 months education . It can be from 2 to 4 years so the equivalent to any degree or cert and a lot better in my opinion as its on the job. But its still early days as it only launched so you probably wont see many advertised yet. But its not aimed at graduates.


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  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My daughter doped out of college and ended up working in a tec/ analysis type role in a bank in the UK it was a matter of luck and circumstances but even she realises to go any further she need to do some sort of course because its is difficult to get promotion, also know as making more more money without some qualifications, The lucky thing is that her employer will pay for any study related to her employment. She started out in customer support.

    Her cousin's girlfriend has a similar job here and she believes here in Ireland you would not get the same job without a degree especially in a financial institution, although like anything else you could be lucky but why limit yourself.

    Do a level 7 course its only 3 years and you get long summer brakes.


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