Road Incident - Opinion?

Johnboy1951

I will describe, as best I can, an 'incident' which I saw occur a few decades ago, (which thankfully did not result in a crash,) with the purpose of getting some views on who might have been at fault if a crash had occurred.

Car A travelled behind a laden lorry, for a couple of miles, waiting a safe opportunity to pass.
An opportunity eventually presented itself .... after rounding a bend a long straight was visible.
Having checked all the usual things such as oncoming traffic, road markings and signposts, Car A began to overtake the lorry.

When the car was parallel with the lorry (about half way in the overtaking manoeuvre), Car B pulled out of an entrance (not side-road) in front of the lorry, crossed the road and drove towards the overtaking Car A.

Obviously Car B coming from the entrance saw no sign of Car A as it was blocked by the lorry, and the overtaking Car A had no idea there was even an entrance, not mind a car in it.

The lorry did not have to slow or otherwise alter its progress, as Car B had lots of time to cross in front of it.

In the event, Car A successfully slowed sufficiently, to allow it to pull back in behind the lorry. (Only barely, as its bonnet was in under the overhang at the rear of the lorry).

No connection was made between any of the vehicles.

There were no hard shoulders on either side.

If the two cars had
1. crashed head-on,
2. or if Car A had struck the lorry while trying to avoid a collision, where would fault lie?

What would have been the likely outcome of any court proceedings of claims or prosecutions?

I find it difficult to see who could have been at fault in the circumstances.

coylemj

If as you say it was a long straight stretch of road then B should allow for the possibility that the lorry could be in the process of being overtaken when he was puling out of his house so I'd say he would be adjudged to be in the wrong.

If B was coming out of a housing estate where the entrance wasn't particularly visible then in all probability there would be an advance warning sign indicating a 'concealed entrance' which could shift some responsibility on to A to exercise more caution before overtaking but for a single house I'd say the responsibility is all on B to avoid such a situation arising so he should not have pulled out in the way he did. To say that A bore some responsibility in the situation as you describe it would imply that nobody could overtake a truck on roads other than motorways.

Seth Brundle

...there could have been a solid white line on the approach to the junction, in which case A could be deemed partly responsible.

Victor

I think I disagree somewhat with coylemj.

One factor will be the time / distance between the truck and the entrance at the time that Driver B committed to leaving the entrance.

As Driver A is making a high(er)-risk manoeuvre, they are the ones with primary responsibility.

That said, being a resident(?), should Driver B be aware that this is a section of road where cars do overtake trucks?

However, the law is negligently phrased in only requiring drivers to be able to stop in the distance they can see to be clear. If everyone did that on a blind bend on a boreen, nobody would be responsible for the consequent collisions.

kbannon wrote: »

...there could have been a solid white line on the approach to the junction

An entrance (private property), not a junction (road). Junctions and private entrances are treated slightly differently in law.

Additionally, driver had checked road markings, which suggests there wasn't a solid white line.

K.Flyer

kbannon wrote: »

...there could have been a solid white line on the approach to the junction, in which case A could be deemed partly responsible.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

[...]
Having checked all the usual things such as oncoming traffic, road markings and signposts, Car A began to overtake the lorry.[...]

According to the o.p. road conditions and signage were in favour of an overtake. Plus it was an entrance, not a road intersection.

Saw something similar over 15 years ago where the car B did something like that and did collide with car A.
Driver of car B was found to be negligent because they pulled out in front of oncoming vehicle without being able to see if it was clear and safe to do so, where as if they had of waited for the larger vehicle to pass they would have had a clearer view of the road and the accident would not have happened.

ianobrien

If car A hit car B. Car B is at fault. Car A has possession of the Right Hand lane and car B entered the lane without checking that it was clear. The fact that car A was driving the "wrong" way down the lane does not matter due to the broken white line. Car B entered the lane without checking that it was clear.

If car A hit the truck, car A is at fault. The truck had possession of the lane and Car A changed lanes without checking that it was clear.

Years ago I know of somebody who was driving like car A in the above example, and the truck changed lanes (to turn right at ajunction). It went to court eventually and car A was 100% right as car A had possession of the lane

Johnboy1951

ianobrien wrote: »

If car A hit car B. Car B is at fault. Car A has possession of the Right Hand lane and car B entered the lane without checking that it was clear. The fact that car A was driving the "wrong" way down the lane does not matter due to the broken white line. Car B entered the lane without checking that it was clear.

If car A hit the truck, car A is at fault. The truck had possession of the lane and Car A changed lanes without checking that it was clear.

Years ago I know of somebody who was driving like car A in the above example, and the truck changed lanes (to turn right at ajunction). It went to court eventually and car A was 100% right as car A had possession of the lane

Would the fact that Car A only changed lanes to avoid a serious accident (maybe death) not impact on the responsibility for a coming together of Car A & the lorry?

Would Car B not be, at least, partly responsible?