Does a ticket need to be validated

amdublin

I have a yearly ticket for my train route.

Sometimes I don't tag on or off if there's a big queue to do it (the gates are generally open) - I figure it doesn't matter because I have a valid ticket and paid the correct fare etc.

An inspector checked my ticket and acknowledged while I have a yearly ticket and was on correct/train route but said I must tag off. And that I could be fined!!!!

I would've thought a valid paid for ticket was adequate.

Can anyone point me to the condition/byelaw that I must tag in this instance.

I know I'm being a bit of a pain but you should see the queues at my station of people tagging so as to be charged correct fare.

amdublin

Edit
When I say ticket I mean leap card

LXFlyer

You should certainly tag on every time.

I wouldn't be too concerned about tagging off.

Victor

Validating the ticket ensures that it is kept up to date.

It also means the ticket is counted for statistical purposes.

donspeekinglesh

I used to have a monthly ticket and I never tagged on when on my way home from Howth Junction (because there's no tag machine on the centre platform), and it was never mentioned to me when I had my ticket checked.

Carawaystick

Victor wrote: »

Validating the ticket ensures that it is kept up to date.

It also means the ticket is counted for statistical purposes.

Except for broombridge passengers

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

Except for broombridge passengers

Broombridge has validators.

uck51js9zml2yt

You need to tag on as that is the means by which you pay for your journey.
It sets a default price and by tagging off you get a refund if the journey is less.

By not tagging on you effectively ave not pad for your trip and are subject to a fine when caught.

Losty Dublin

If your ticket is a point to point ticket then tagging on and off at stations is about your only way of showing you haven't travelled over or beyond what you have paid for.

amdublin wrote: »

I have a yearly ticket for my train route.

Sometimes I don't tag on or off if there's a big queue to do it (the gates are generally open) - I figure it doesn't matter because I have a valid ticket and paid the correct fare etc.

An inspector checked my ticket and acknowledged while I have a yearly ticket and was on correct/train route but said I must tag off. And that I could be fined!!!!

I would've thought a valid paid for ticket was adequate.

Can anyone point me to the condition/byelaw that I must tag in this instance.

I know I'm being a bit of a pain but you should see the queues at my station of people tagging so as to be charged correct fare.

Orion

As you have a yearly ticket you don't need to tag off. I rarely do with mine. Even with a prepaid leap card you don't get fined for not tagging off - you get charged the rate for the maximum fare instead even it you get off earlier.

LXFlyer

For the OP, here is the relevant section from the LEAP Card website:

2.5 You must have a valid ticket to travel. This means that when using Travel Credit or a ticket pre-loaded onto the Leap Card, you must always successfully “Touch-On” prior to commencing any journey. Leap Card customers will receive visual and/or audible signal notification when they successfully Touch-On.

If you using a Student Leap Card as an ID to buy paper tickets at discounted student fares you must present your Student Leap Card at the time of purchase in order to avail of the student fare. When using your Student Leap Card as an ID in conjunction with a student paper ticket you do not need to “Touch-On” your Student Leap Card. If you “Touch-On” you will be charged. You must have your Student Leap Card available for inspection when travelling on a discounted student ticket.

Further information is available in the “How to use a Leap Card” and “FAQs” sections of www.leapcard.ie.

If you are asked by an employee of a Transport Operator to show your ticket, show your Leap Card (or Student Leap Card if travelling using Leap Travel Credit or a Leap ticket). This can be checked to show that you have Touched-On correctly. If you do not have a valid ticket or you have not “Touched-On” you will be issued with a Standard Fare Notice by the Transport Operator subject to the Conditions of Carriage of that Transport Operator and may also be prosecuted for fare evasion.

Leap Card customers must also “Touch-Off” on Luas and Irish Rail services in accordance with the Conditions of Carriage of the relevant Transport Operator. Failure to Touch-Off in these circumstances when using Travel Credit will result in the maximum value of any journey which initiates from the Touch-On location having been charged to the Leap Card.

lil5

lxflyer wrote: »

For the OP, here is the relevant section from the LEAP Card website:

Which just shows what utter nonsense the whole Leap epurse / preloaded ticket lark is.

It's bad enough that it was introduced as a system where a majority of the DB users still have to interact with the driver.

Valid annual ticket holders certainly shouldn't be fined for not touching on or off on Luas or Irish Rail trips.

Mrs OBumble

Adrian Zealous Liar wrote: »

You need to tag on as that is the means by which you pay for your journey.
It sets a default price and by tagging off you get a refund if the journey is less.

By not tagging on you effectively ave not pad for your trip and are subject to a fine when caught.

The OP has an annual ticket. They have already paid for this, likely some months ago. No additional charges are due.


OP, I can understand why they're doing this: Leap provides a way to get statistics about levels of use of TaxSaver tickets that simply didn't exist before. (When they eventually roll it out to all the regional buses, I will eventually be identified as one of Galway city's most prolific bus users!)

Agree it's a pain in the a**. The real solution is to lobby for more or better-placed validators for people like yourself.

wally79

lil5 wrote: »

It's bad enough that it was introduced as a system where a majority of the DB users still have to interact with the driver.

I still don't understand this. Tag on Tag off would considerably shorten queues when boarding and would give more accurate journey statistics.

AlekSmart

wally79 wrote: »

I still don't understand this. Tag on Tag off would considerably shorten queues when boarding and would give more accurate journey statistics.

Not on Single-Door/Single Validator buses.

wally79

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not on Single-Door/Single Validator buses.

It would still be quicker than every Leap passenger having to join the cash queue and tell the driver their destination rather than just tagging and walking on as other seasonal ticket holders can do

Dravokivich

wally79 wrote: »

It would still be quicker than every Leap passenger having to join the cash queue and tell the driver their destination rather than just tagging and walking on as other seasonal ticket holders can do

The ticket machines need to know where they are without driver intervention before any such plan for touch on/off can be put forward.

noelfirl

Dravokivich wrote: »

The ticket machines need to know where they are without driver intervention before any such plan for touch on/off can be put forward.

I thought that setup was finally up and running (on Dublin buses)?

LXFlyer

noelfirl wrote: »

I thought that setup was finally up and running (on Dublin buses)?

It is up and running - but there may well still be glitches that require driver intervention.

bruno1x

lxflyer wrote: »

It is up and running - but there may well still be glitches that require driver intervention.

As a DB driver I'm intrigued, what interventions do you think we can make?

Victor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The OP has an annual ticket. They have already paid for this, likely some months ago. No additional charges are due.

Not necessarily, e.g. if I have a ticket from Dalkey to Connolly and board at Connolly and go to Maynooth.

artvandulet

Do you mean you have a taxsaver leap card with your photo on it? That's what I have and I never tag on or off! I get my ticket inspected at least once per week and never an issue. I use for Dart and Luas
On occasion, an inspector asks me to tag on/off the next time I get off to keep the card active (whatever that means). But this is about once every few months.

When u got my annual card in the post I'm fairly sure the leaflet that came with it said I did not require to tag on/off with my type of card.

LXFlyer

bruno1x wrote: »

As a DB driver I'm intrigued, what interventions do you think we can make?

Can you not still manually over-ride it?


There were issues with stage locations being incorrect.

LXFlyer

artvandulet wrote: »

Do you mean you have a taxsaver leap card with your photo on it? That's what I have and I never tag on or off! I get my ticket inspected at least once per week and never an issue. I use for Dart and Luas
On occasion, an inspector asks me to tag on/off the next time I get off to keep the card active (whatever that means). But this is about once every few months.

When u got my annual card in the post I'm fairly sure the leaflet that came with it said I did not require to tag on/off with my type of card.

As per the terms and conditions quoted above, everyone is supposed to tag on and off every time they travel.


Now tagging off in your circumstances isn't really an issue, but you should always tag on.

GM228

artvandulet wrote: »

When u got my annual card in the post I'm fairly sure the leaflet that came with it said I did not require to tag on/off with my type of card.

Both LEAP leaflets relating to Taxsaver type state you must tag on always (it's also in the T&Cs as already pointed out), you also must tag off on LUAS and trains, but not buses.

Bus: Touch On at the start of your journey only
Luas and Train: Touch On AND Touch Off
You must Touch On before every journey, even if you have a valid ticket.

http://www.taxsaver.ie/Global/Leap%20Tax%20Saver%20Information%20December%202014.pdf

https://www.leapcard.ie/en/_uploads/TaxSaver%20Leap%20Card%20Information.pdf

average_runner

lil5 wrote: »

Which just shows what utter nonsense the whole Leap epurse / preloaded ticket lark is.

It's bad enough that it was introduced as a system where a majority of the DB users still have to interact with the driver.

Valid annual ticket holders certainly shouldn't be fined for not touching on or off on Luas or Irish Rail trips.

You always had to validate your annual ticket getting on the bus and the dart

GM228

Another reason why it is required to tag on is to flag a card which may be blocked for any reason.

kc56

Sometimes, there are no tag on/off facilities at stations particularly outside the short-hop zone. Annual point-point tickets are now issued on Leap cards. Some stations, like Sallins, only have validators active for part of the day. At others, one or more of the gates may be left open and people just walk through without validating. Occasionally at Heuston, all the gate are opened usually if a train is late arriving and they want quick boarding.

On board trains to Heuston, ticket checkers merely glance at tickets and, of course, cannot determine the validity of a Leap ticket; the old Irsih Rail smartcard had the route and validity printed on them. The RPU, on the few occasions they are active, have scanners and do check.

Personally, I always tag on/off unless the validator room is closed or all gate are open.

magicbastarder

i never bothered tagging on or off on the luas with my (yearly) prepaid ticket last year (though i did use it on dublin bus nearly daily).

for a month or two maybe around april, the luas ticket inspectors were insisting i should have tagged on, but i haven't had one mention that to me in maybe five or six months. it's certainly not enforced anymore on the green line.

bruno1x

lxflyer wrote: »

Can you not still manually over-ride it?


There were issues with stage locations being incorrect.

No, and there still are issues

devnull

wally79 wrote: »

It would still be quicker than every Leap passenger having to join the cash queue and tell the driver their destination rather than just tagging and walking on as other seasonal ticket holders can do

Go on a busy cross city route and see how it works. 30 People wanting to use the right hand side validator to tag off whilst another 30 people trying to use the same machine to use their epurse/monthly/yearly ticket to tag on. not forgetting the people paying cash going to the driver.

It'd be a complete traffic jam at the front of the bus, with two doors and validators at the second door, it would work.

bruno1x

devnull wrote: »

It'd be a complete traffic jam at the front of the bus, with two doors and validators at the second door, it would work.

The current ticket machines can barely cope with one validator, i dread to think what effect adding more would do.

devnull

bruno1x wrote: »

The current ticket machines can barely cope with one validator, i dread to think what effect adding more would do.

Obviously it would need replacement of the ticket machines as well, the current machines are so far out of date it's laughable.

Carawaystick

devnull wrote: »

Go on a busy cross city route and see how it works. 30 People wanting to use the right hand side validator to tag off whilst another 30 people trying to use the same machine to use their epurse/monthly/yearly ticket to tag on. not forgetting the people paying cash going to the driver.

It'd be a complete traffic jam at the front of the bus, with two doors and validators at the second door, it would work.

And does the present non tag off system jam with 30passengers trying to get on while passengers are getting off?

beauf

amdublin wrote: »

....you should see the queues at my station of people tagging so as to be charged correct fare.

Generally people have to tag on to through a barrier to the platform.

Why is there a queue of people at your station? Even at the main stations in Dublin I don't think I've ever seen much of a queue. Does everyone arrive all at the same to get the train?

amdublin

beauf wrote: »

Generally people have to tag on to through a barrier to the platform.

Why is there a queue of people at your station? Even at the main stations in Dublin I don't think I've ever seen much of a queue. Does everyone arrive all at the same to get the train?

In the evening there is one tagger located beside a gate to leave the platform.

The ticket office with the barriers q(a) is on the other side of the platform and (b) is closed on the evening.

beauf

Tagging off doesn't seem to be an issue. Very few tag off (at my station) if they don't have to.

But even with our office closed we have to go through barriers or a gate to get to the platform.

The design of stations varies quite a bit though. Some allow you to walk past the tagging machine without using it.