Is this a pivotal season in the EPL?

NIMAN

It's been such a crazy epl season so far, wondering if anything thinks it could be a turning point in the future of the game in England?

Ok I know in the past we have had surprise leaders at Xmas, or teams riding high who then plummeted down the table, but there is just so many shocking results this season in one off games, plus the likes of huge clubs like Utd and Chelsea, with big marquee managers, failing so miserably.

Have we had the top teams lose so many games in a season so early? It's like no-one has the ability to move away at the top of the table.

I do think the top clubs in the EPL are weaker than in the past, but I also think there is a new phenomenon occurring, when smaller teams are no longer beat even before they take the pitch and go out and have a go at the big boys.

Personally, it's refreshing to watch and I will be cheering Leicester on, hopefully all the way to the title, with the likes of Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool all missing out on CL football.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The top teams are so poor this year compared with normal seasons.As much as the mediocre teams seem to have improved they've been helped by the top teams being weaker and thus losing more games against them and thus reducing their own points tally and increasing the weaker teams points tally at the same time.

If a really top class team was in the premier league this year they would run away with the league.

It's just an odd season and I suspect the natural order will return at some stage in the next couple of years.Chelsea ,Man Utd and Liverpool are at low points and Man City are dreadfully inconsistent.Arsenal are the only one of the top teams playing any close to a level they would hope to be at.

The results in Europe being so disappointing for the English teams and Arsenal beating Olympiakos being considered an achievement shows you how below par the English teams are this year.

cson

The top clubs are probably slightly weaker from the Ronaldo and Drogba et al hey days but the big kicker is the likes of Stoke are now able to sign players of the quality of Shaqiri and Bojan. That's whats happening imo; teams farther down the league are just better - I remember an interview with Ozil where he said a key difference to Spain was that teams don't give up; if Real Madrid went 1-0 up it was game over. Not the case in the EPL, the Chelsea game being the latest example.

Vurnon San Benito

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The top teams are so poor this year compared with normal seasons.As much as the mediocre teams seem to have improved they've been helped by the top teams being weaker and thus losing more games against them and thus reducing their own points tally and increasing the weaker teams points tally at the same time.

Jeez, when you put it as eloquently as that... :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee

Vurnon San Benito wrote: »

Jeez, when you put it as eloquently as that... :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Yeah.Obvious enough to say but what I mean is that the improvement of the weaker teams is in part due to the stronger teams being getting worse and not just themselves getting better.

Pyjamarama

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The top teams are so poor this year compared with normal seasons.As much as the mediocre teams seem to have improved they've been helped by the top teams being weaker and thus losing more games against them and thus reducing their own points tally and increasing the weaker teams points tally at the same time.

If a really top class team was in the premier league this year they would run away with the league.

It's just an odd season and I suspect the natural order will return at some stage in the next couple of years.Chelsea ,Man Utd and Liverpool are at low points and Man City are dreadfully inconsistent.Arsenal are the only one of the top teams playing any close to a level they would hope to be at.

The results in Europe being so disappointing for the English teams and Arsenal beating Olympiakos being considered an achievement shows you how below par the English teams are this year.

Yup totally expected them to lose 4-0 yesterday.

Harry Palmr

Basically the same theme as this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98104165

Bleating Lamb

Agree with a lot of previous posters points,one of key reasons that league is so poor with inconsistent result patterns this year is that the supposed 'top' sides only have two or three players playing well at any one time.To put a strong run together you need 8 or 9 lads performing every week.When EPL was attracting top players in the noughties you had likes of Chelsea,Arsenal and Man Utd vying for titles while putting consistent runs of form together.

IMO the standard of players at top teams has dropped markedly in last few years and mid table teams are buying well in the transfer market to level the leagues current average ness out.

tastyt

As said above its the money factor. English clubs can offer more money than anyone else bar your barcas and Reals.

Theres no way a midtable team in France or Italy could afford to have shaquiri, payet, Pelle or bojan playing for them but they can in England which really closes the gap .

That being said it is very poor and inconsistent from the top teams this season

Drumpot

Yeh, what's ironic is that the standard seems to be dropping the more money being pumped into the EPL. Are teams panicking and spending big money on average players because they have money as opposed to having long term sustainable strategys?

Some people defending the quality of football sound a lot like serie A fans at the end of Italian dominance in the late 90s. Their defence at the time was that serie A was so competitive , Teams struggled in Europe.

The inconsistency of city, Chelsea, United and Arsenal suggests that there is little drive or character in the players at these clubs. Players have zero accountability for their actions and the managers take all the responsibility when they decide to half arse it throughout the season.

I would go a further step with United and ask questions of Woodward and the board. LVG , like most managers, don't decide who the clubs buy and sell. Woodward has spent over 300mil and the squad looks very average.

The modern day fan likes to think that the solution is always to replace the manager. This is an extremely facile way of judging the success of a manager.

It's great tbh.

I'd love to see Leicester keep it up and take a top 4 spot. It'd make a mockery of the clubs spending hundreds of millions on a collection of mediocre players. Leicesters two top players cost a combined 1.4m afaik.

I do think they'll slip back though

AllGunsBlazing

On the upside, matches pitting the established top 4 against teams against from midtable are no longer as predictable. It's a bit of a throwback to the days of the old first division in that regard. It's got me watching motd again for the first time in absolute ages.

No doubt it's been a shock to the system for fans of teams that enjoyed unchallenged domination for years but it's great for anyone of a neutral persuasion.

Richard Hillman

Madrid, Barcelona, Munich and PSG are hoovering up all of the galactico tier 1 players with the likes of the better PL teams getting the rest (tier 2)

In reality all of those left over tier 2 players are not that much better than the Tier 3 players.

There is also the possession football tactic being found out. Teams that are putting up 60% of pointless possession are getting picked. Attacking and agressive teams are being rewarded with dull sideways passers struggling.

Something that I find amusing about LVG at United is that his Dutch team completely steamrolled Spain's ugly football in the World Cup. Now his teams are playing similarly to Spain in the WC and getting turned by teams playing similar to his Dutch team

DeanAustin

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

On the upside, matches pitting the established top 4 against teams against from midtable are no longer as predictable. It's a bit of a throwback to the days of the old first division in that regard. It's got me watching motd again for the first time in absolute ages.

No doubt it's been a shock to the system for fans of teams that enjoyed unchallenged domination for years but it's great for anyone of a neutral persuasion.

Exactly. There was a time when Derby, Forest, Villa could all win the league within a few years of each other. United and Spurs both went down in that era. Even back to the start of the Premiership, Norwich sustained a title challenge pretty much to the end. What's happening this season is fantastic and makes for a much better league.

Sadly, I fully expect the big boys to re establish dominance by next season though.

bucketybuck

cson wrote: »

The top clubs are probably slightly weaker from the Ronaldo and Drogba et al hey days but the big kicker is the likes of Stoke are now able to sign players of the quality of Shaqiri and Bojan.

But there have always been quality players sprinkled around the midtable clubs, as far back as the days of Juninho and Ravanelli at Middlesborough.

The smaller clubs are doing well and fair play to them, but I do think that the biggest factor is that the so called big clubs have been useless over the last five years or so. Considering the head start they had in terms of big money investment the likes of City and Chelsea should be embarrassed really, they should be miles ahead of the rest of the PL. And United have been on a downward spiral since before Fergie left, when the biggest club in the country can't buy a damn midfielder for 5 seasons you know mistakes are being made.

dreamers75

Bournemouth and Watford (no offence) are being linked with Iturbe a player sold for 22 million not so long ago.

I think when 2 teams that were favourites for bottom half finishes are being linked with players like that, then something is changing.

The team that finishes bottom could get 97m the team that wins the CL will get 54m in 2016.....fcuk teh CL?

EPL
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/premier-league-tv-rights-money-distribution/
CL
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/uefa-champions-league-prize-money/]

K-9

Away form seems a total outlier from previously. Teams no longer fear going to Anfield, Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge. The likes of Palace or West Ham are set up to exploit the big teams away from home.

Paully D

cson wrote: »

The top clubs are probably slightly weaker from the Ronaldo and Drogba et al hey days but the big kicker is the likes of Stoke are now able to sign players of the quality of Shaqiri and Bojan. That's whats happening imo; teams farther down the league are just better - I remember an interview with Ozil where he said a key difference to Spain was that teams don't give up; if Real Madrid went 1-0 up it was game over. Not the case in the EPL, the Chelsea game being the latest example.

He hasn't paid any attention to Sunderland then! :pac:

Gaygooner

England is awash with mercenaries at the minute and instant success has destroyed and desire by most mangers to build a successful team

dfx-

Ambition and drive amongst the top clubs is thin on the ground, 4 CL spots gives them to coast through a season while raking in the money. They have so much money that if players don't work out, they can get more with little consequences. Matchday fans' opinions largely don't matter and managers are disposable.

The loss of a CL spot could give them some drive back though

Dirty Dingus McGee

cson wrote: »

The top clubs are probably slightly weaker from the Ronaldo and Drogba et al hey days but the big kicker is the likes of Stoke are now able to sign players of the quality of Shaqiri and Bojan. That's whats happening imo; teams farther down the league are just better - I remember an interview with Ozil where he said a key difference to Spain was that teams don't give up; if Real Madrid went 1-0 up it was game over. Not the case in the EPL, the Chelsea game being the latest example.

Is that because Arsenal and Chelsea are nowhere near as good as Real Madrid and therefore it's less likely to be intimidated by a lesser team than a great one.

It's much easier to not give up when the opposition you play against are not as good.

topmanamillion

EPL and the "world's best league" horse **** is being found out. There's plenty of good football being played around Europe and even in other parts of the world.
Money doesn't automatically equal success.
For me the lifestyles on offer in places like Madrid, Munich and Paris are giving them a massive edge. If your Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar etc sitting in your house in Manchester looking out at the posting rain doesn't compare to being in a country with a warm climate and lounging by the pool. I don't believe there's a wage on offer at barca or Madrid that can't be matched by city and maybe one or 2 others in England so it is coming down to lifestyle.

dreamers75

topmanamillion wrote: »

EPL and the "world's best league" horse **** is being found out. There's plenty of good football being played around Europe and even in other parts of the world.

Yes players there are more tehcnically proficient and can "win" a game.

topmanamillion wrote: »

Money doesn't automatically equal success.
For me the lifestyles on offer in places like Madrid, Munich and Paris are giving them a massive edge. If your Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar etc sitting in your house in Manchester looking out at the posting rain doesn't compare to being in a country with a warm climate and lounging by the pool. I don't believe there's a wage on offer at barca or Madrid that can't be matched by city and maybe one or 2 others in England so it is coming down to lifestyle.

No money does equal success as has been proved for every league every year forever.

A player getting 40k a week at Madrid will move to Watford for 100k.

topmanamillion

dreamers75 wrote: »

Yes players there are more tehcnically proficient and can "win" a game.



No money does equal success as has been proved for every league every year forever.

A player getting 40k a week at Madrid will move to Watford for 100k.

Every year? Every league? Mmm I forgot about how well city have done in the CL, (what is it now? 5 in a row they're going for?) or that they were handed the league titles they have won by Utd and Liverpool chocking.
What about the great big spenders Chelsea? They're nearly relegated
Utd have spent £300million on a squad of players that wouldn't get a look in at the European big 3, and what have they to show for it? Shag all.

Of course a player would take a 100k deal particularly if a club like real decided they were only worth a 40k deal but that's a completely different argunent.
What about if Man utd are offering 100k and Real are offering 100k? UTD and the rest of the English clubs are losing these kind of scenarios every time.