No more drawing silage as licence needed

chezzie

our insurance company has now told me this time that I can no longer pull a trailer behind a tractor on the road as need correct licence although most young guys are still at it and got no licence.
Seems costly enough to do as well. Is it difficult to pass

Grueller

chezzie wrote: »

our insurance company has now told me this time that I can no longer pull a trailer behind a tractor on the road as need correct licence although most young guys are still at it and got no licence.
Seems costly enough to do as well. Is it difficult to pass

What licence do you need? EB for jeep and trailers is hardly what they mean by that? If not it is an artic license and the best of luck with lads getting them for seasonal grass and harvest work.

Reggie.

Grueller wrote: »

What licence do you need? EB for jeep and trailers is hardly what they mean by that? If not it is an artic license and the best of luck with lads getting them for seasonal grass and harvest work.

There was chat about that before and if it is true the fleets will have a job getting drivers

ganmo

Is there a category WB? Don't think so.
So if you have an attic licence you won't be licenced to drive a tractor with or without a trailer

Reggie.

ganmo wrote: »

Is there a category WB? Don't think so.
So if you have an attic licence you won't be licenced to drive a tractor with or without a trailer

Usually a full car licence covered the tractor

raypallas

ganmo wrote:

Is there a category WB? Don't think so. So if you have an attic licence you won't be licenced to drive a tractor with or without a trailer

That would be ridiculous if true considering that an artic licence allows a driver to drive a 46ton gross lorry and the new tractor and trailer weights are somewhere in the high 20's or low 30's. Of which i have both!

foxy farmer

Heard mention of contractors employees having to be over 21 to be covered by insurance. Dealers supplying tractors for hire had this clause too. OPs ins co are just being awkward. Don't think their stance has any legal standing. Yet anyway.
No doubt in time heavy loads towed behind tractors will have some sort of restrictions. Like what they brought in with the small trailers.

paulmclaughlin

Reggie. wrote: »

Usually a full car licence covered the tractor

When you get a car licence (category , you also automatically get the work vehicles licence (category W) which covers the tractor. For towing heavier trailers you need a category BE, basically an add-on to the car licence. But there is no category WE so I don't understand how the insurance company require you get an addition category that doesn't exist.

chezzie

think it was BE, told I may not be insured if pulling a trailer behind a tractor now,I don't have it, I passed my test in 2001, anyone who passed the test in 1997 or before automatically got the licence

chezzie

ganmo wrote: »

Is there a category WB? Don't think so.
So if you have an attic licence you won't be licenced to drive a tractor with or without a trailer

Artic licence should cover you here

9935452

chezzie wrote: »

think it was BE, told I may not be insured if pulling a trailer behind a tractor now,I don't have it, I passed my test in 2001, anyone who passed the test in 1997 or before automatically got the licence

I honestly think you need to go back to the insurance company and clarify exactly what they are saying. BTW what insurance company are they?
The W license is the only license that is for a ahricultural tractor which has always covered you to drive a tractor pulling anything,
The thinking im seeing here is since you got the W license for free when passing the car driving test you need to pass the car/jeep and trailer test and transfer this across to the W license. Iy doesnt make much sense.

Id say its far more likely that there was a mix up with them and you.
Its probably got to do with the new regulations regarding tractors, speeds , trailer weights , widths and lengths that came into effect on the first of january.
Do you have a 50k tractor by any chance ?

Farrell

Heard a rumour that from Jan 1st, unless you had a full license with W on it you have to do a W test to be allowed drive a w vehicle.
Also a CE license is needed for hauling big stuff like diggers.
There is lots of guys out there pulling large trailers with no license & this will be easy money for revenue

djmc

Unless someone can post a solid link from the RSA or similar then this is just speculation and a w licence will allow you to pull a trailer as it always has.

The J Stands for Jay

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

When you get a car licence (category , you also automatically get the work vehicles licence (category W) which covers the tractor. For towing heavier trailers you need a category BE, basically an add-on to the car licence. But there is no category WE so I don't understand how the insurance company require you get an addition category that doesn't exist.

I'm nearly sure I didn't get a W licence along with my B. I wonder are they looking to avoid covering people who didn't actually do the test? That wouldn't work in a country where there's a generation of drivers who never even did a test to get their B licence.

_Brian

The 1st Jan change is only regarding speed, breaking and towed weights.

No change to Liscence at the moment.

Insurance companies are just up their arses at the moment looking to drop as much as they can and charge through the roof for everything tey keep on.

From the RSA website.
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Vehicle-Standards/Agricultural-Vehicles/

Note that neither changes to the Driver Licensing & Testing arrangements for prospective Category W (agricultural tractor and works vehicle) licence holders, nor the introduction of compulsory roadworthiness testing for agricultural vehicles are being introduced at this time. However these are areas that the RSA will likely consider in the future with a view to implementing further improvements aimed at increasing road safety for all road users encountering agricultural vehicles using public roads.

djmc

_Brian wrote: »

The 1st Jan change is only regarding speed, breaking and towed weights.

No change to Liscence at the moment.

Insurance companies are just up their arses at the moment looking to drop as much as they can and charge through the roof for everything tey keep on.

From the RSA website.
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Vehicle-Standards/Agricultural-Vehicles/

Note that neither changes to the Driver Licensing & Testing arrangements for prospective Category W (agricultural tractor and works vehicle) licence holders, nor the introduction of compulsory roadworthiness testing for agricultural vehicles are being introduced at this time. However these are areas that the RSA will likely consider in the future with a view to implementing further improvements aimed at increasing road safety for all road users encountering agricultural vehicles using public roads.

Between that type of thinking and insurance rising will lead to more lads buying a cheap second tractor for outfarm and pay no tax or insurance and leave the roadwork for the contractors
It would be a cheaper option.

I find it hard to understand how a kid can drive a tractor on the road without having to do a test.

djmc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how a kid can drive a tractor on the road without having to do a test.

I suppose most would have a few years experience around the yard field work etc.
Very few lads would leave a kid with no experience off down the road on a tractor.
Cars are driven without a full licence as well but are supposed to have a passenger with a full licence with them.

_Brian

Deleted User wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how a kid can drive a tractor on the road without having to do a test.

I think the evidence for accidents involving such people would suggest it isn't a particular high risk. There are far more areas relating to farming that need to be prioritised first for farm safety.

9935452

Deleted User wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how a kid can drive a tractor on the road without having to do a test.

I have to agree even though i do come from a farming background.
When i learned to drive it was in a massey 135 flat out at 14mph on the roadwith nothing bigger than a 10ft trailer and a couple of ton aboard .
But it is entirely possible for a 16yr old to get into a 60/70k fendt /80k fastrac pulling 30ft trailers with little visability , pulling heavy weight with no idea of stopping distances
I do notice with local contractors that take young lads on , if there is an accident, the young lad in the majority of cases is involved but a lot of the time is actually in the right but didnt have the cop on to let the car off. ie turning right off a main road , indicator on and the car overtakes regardless.

djmc

I started driving tractors at 14 and drawing silage on the road at 16 and turned trailer sideways into dyke .
Learned a valuable lesson that day besides having to empty the silage trailer by hand with a pike and getting a good telling off to what I learned the most when I was explaining my predicament that I met a woman in a car on narrow road who couldn't reverse her car and I couldn't reverse with full
Load of silage back down the hill around bends as I had no visibility
I asked what could I do but try to pull in and let her pass and I'll never forget the answer.
If you have a full load pull handbreak sit back fold arms and yawn they will get the message after ten or 15 minutes.
Had to do that occasionally over the years rather than risking roadside grass margin giving away into unseen dyke under load weight.
Got a few dirty looks as well but a less chance of an accident having them learn to reverse a small car.

ganmo

djmc wrote: »

I started driving tractors at 14 and drawing silage on the road at 16 and turned trailer sideways into dyke .
Learned a valuable lesson that day besides having to empty the silage trailer by hand with a pike and getting a good telling off to what I learned the most when I was explaining my predicament that I met a woman in a car on narrow road who couldn't reverse her car and I couldn't reverse with full
Load of silage back down the hill around bends as I had no visibility
I asked what could I do but try to pull in and let her pass and I'll never forget the answer.
If you have a full load pull handbreak sit back fold arms and yawn they will get the message after ten or 15 minutes.
Had to do that occasionally over the years rather than risking roadside grass margin giving away into unseen dyke under load weight.
Got a few dirty looks as well but a less chance of an accident having them learn to reverse a small car.

It's a fork
The amount of people that can't/won't reverse cars is crazy!

ganmo

ganmo wrote: »

It's a fork
The amount of people that can't/won't reverse cars is crazy!

It could also be a sprong. Depends on where in the sticks you live!

tanko

Deleted User wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how a kid can drive a tractor on the road without having to do a test.

Sure the roads are full of elderly people driving cars capable of doing over 100 miles per hour who have never passed a driving test or ever taken a driving lesson in their lives and there isn't a word about it.

At least the Young lads driving tractors on the road aren't nearly blind.

tanko

tanko wrote: »

Sure the roads are full of elderly people driving cars capable of doing over 100 miles per hour who have never passed a driving test or ever taken a driving lesson in their lives and there isn't a word about it.

At least the Young lads driving tractors on the road aren't nearly blind.

Don't get me started on that!!!

Miname

There aren't many contractors going to land a young lad up on a tractor nowadays without knowing he's well capable of controlling it. The money involved in silage outfits nowadays means it's not worth the gamble. Age isn't everything either there's a young lad up the road from me that's 14 and I can guarantee you he's a better machinery man than me and I've twenty years on him and far more experience. I say it's all down to the individual.

Reggie.

ganmo wrote: »

It's a fork
The amount of people that can't/won't reverse cars is crazy!

We had to drive a traction engine up a twisty hill after a wedding and every car we met was afraid to reverse. Not an easy job in a 3 piece suit

Farrell

Miname wrote: »

There aren't many contractors going to land a young lad up on a tractor nowadays without knowing he's well capable of controlling it. The money involved in silage outfits nowadays means it's not worth the gamble. Age isn't everything either there's a young lad up the road from me that's 14 and I can guarantee you he's a better machinery man than me and I've twenty years on him and far more experience. I say it's all down to the individual.

Even drawing in bales, you can see the difference in 135 drivers & those use to the bigger beasts

chezzie

9935452 wrote: »

I honestly think you need to go back to the insurance company and clarify exactly what they are saying. BTW what insurance company are they?
The W license is the only license that is for a ahricultural tractor which has always covered you to drive a tractor pulling anything,
The thinking im seeing here is since you got the W license for free when passing the car driving test you need to pass the car/jeep and trailer test and transfer this across to the W license. Iy doesnt make much sense.

Id say its far more likely that there was a mix up with them and you.
Its probably got to do with the new regulations regarding tractors, speeds , trailer weights , widths and lengths that came into effect on the first of january.
Do you have a 50k tractor by any chance ?

FBD, you need a licence to pull a trailer over 750kg behind a jeep or car so must be the same for a tractor and trailer now too on the road.
I was told if not got the proper licence to tow a trailer than insurance company may not pay out if an accident occurred

J.O. Farmer

chezzie wrote: »

FBD, you need a licence to pull a trailer over 750kg behind a jeep or car so must be the same for a tractor and trailer now too on the road.
I was told if not got the proper licence to tow a trailer than insurance company may not pay out if an accident occurred

That's the law about the jeep and trailer. It would be impractically low though for a tractor. A trailer with a yearling in it would be over the limit.

9935452

chezzie wrote: »

FBD, you need a licence to pull a trailer over 750kg behind a jeep or car so must be the same for a tractor and trailer now too on the road.
I was told if not got the proper licence to tow a trailer than insurance company may not pay out if an accident occurred

definately go back to them and clarify.
Im with them too for car , tractor and quad.
None of it makes any sense . There is no W plus trailer section on your license and never has been . If you work off of weights , getting a jeep/car and trailer license still only brings you up to 3500kg. A silage wagon weighs 7 ton empty (strautman super vitesse)
Id somehow say the confusion here is regarding pulling a trailer behind a jeep/car. I asked them whether i was insured to pull a trailer behind the car and was told yes as long as i had the correct license.

_Brian

9935452 wrote: »

definately go back to them and clarify.
Im with them too for car , tractor and quad.
None of it makes any sense . There is no W plus trailer section on your license and never has been . If you work off of weights , getting a jeep/car and trailer license still only brings you up to 3500kg. A silage wagon weighs 7 ton empty (strautman super vitesse)
Id somehow say the confusion here is regarding pulling a trailer behind a jeep/car. I asked them whether i was insured to pull a trailer behind the car and was told yes as long as i had the correct license.

Insurance companies are making up rules themselves.

I read over in motors where some are asking to see car tax before insuring. No legal requirement for this but Aparrenty they want to use it as a signal if your general compliance to laws and regulations.

Extrapolate that and no reason they couldn't ask for a car licence for same reason for tractor insurance. They could argue it demonstrates "some" training and assessment with a trailer rather than none.

Remember they can make up Any rules they want

9935452

_Brian wrote: »

Insurance companies are making up rules themselves.

I read over in motors where some are asking to see car tax before insuring. No legal requirement for this but Aparrenty they want to use it as a signal if your general compliance to laws and regulations.

Extrapolate that and no reason they couldn't ask for a car licence for same reason for tractor insurance. They could argue it demonstrates "some" training and assessment with a trailer rather than none.

Remember they can make up Any rules they want

I still think its a mistake or confusion. The insurance company told him he needs the correct license to drive a tractor pulling a trailer.
The W license is 'Work vehicles and land tractor with or without a trailer.'
which is what they want.
What it might be is if they were using the tractor to haul stuff commercially ie building site work , they might have to run the tractor as an artic lorry ,commercial tax/ insurance, run on white diesel and artic license.

WheatenBriar

Here is a news article on the new rules
Its maintenance mainly
Nothing to do with the license
Its probable the rep on the phone hadnt a clue


http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/new-rules-for-farm-vehicles-on-roads-begin-in-january-373371.html