Farm Safety and Accident Proposal.... Opinions requested.

greysides

Over the past year or so, we've have several threads relating to farm deaths, accidents and safety. In some of those threads there were, as there are in the current one, requests for stickies on the subject to bring together everyone's experience, suggestions and current advice.

Those requests didn't fall on deaf ears but we are limited to the number of stickies we can have. Some of that is due to mobile phone use. With a small screen having the same topics on the top of page limits the number of threads that can be seen without having to go to the next page.

Ignoring current hot topics, depression in farming and farm safety are two serious, recurring and enduring problems of modern farming. In the past we've addressed one of these with the Off Season forum. It's been quiet for a while, which may not be a bad thing, but it exists. It's already set up on the forum and to add to it's remit would be to fully utilise it.

So what's being proposed, and what we're looking for opinions on, is to rename the Off Season forum something like the 'Farming Health' forum. Threads in it would be tagged as they are started by the OP as either 'Off Season' threads or 'Safety' threads, as is done on the Political forum. Moderation for Off Season threads would be as before. Safety threads would be moderated in an intermediate fashion reflecting the seriousness of the topics but they'd not need the restrictions of Off Season threads as their requirements are very different.

Before we send the hamsters into overdrive we're looking for opinions on this.

Our major concern is that it will place important topics in a sub-forum which requires people to leave the main forum. Do people visit these other forums?


Is it necessary?

Will it be used?

What do you think.................?

Thanks.

Base price

Is it necessary? - If through its existence and education it reduces the possibility of a serious farm accident then I think it is worth it.
Will it be used? - Initially I think so but after time maybe not as much. TBH I'm not really sure. I would be concerned about people posting about genuine incidences and others berating them for their lack of safety/concern etc.
I have done stupid/risky things with cattle in the past, got lucky to live and tell the tale but I would not like to be blasted by heated criticism/berating comments.

The Depression in Farming thread is there for anyone who wishes to post in it. It may not be the most used thread (Thank God) but in my opinion one that is the most important than any other on F&F. Sometimes we need a platform to share our troubles/problems. Non of us are professional counsellors but we sympathise, encourage etc and that can be the catalyst for someone who is in turmoil/difficult personal circumstances to seek professional help .

greysides

Base price wrote: »

I would be concerned about people posting about genuine incidences and others berating them for their lack of safety/concern etc.
I have done stupid/risky things with cattle in the past, got lucky to live and tell the tale but I would not like to be blasted by heated criticism/berating comments.

Thanks for your reply. After 149 views and no comments I was wondering......

The intent would be that moderation would be strict enough that genuine experiences recounted wouldn't be punished. After all, they'd only be posted for the benefit of others, the poster would have already learnt from them.

Kovu

Base price wrote: »

TBH I'm not really sure. I would be concerned about people posting about genuine incidences and others berating them for their lack of safety/concern etc.
I have done stupid/risky things with cattle in the past, got lucky to live and tell the tale but I would not like to be blasted by heated criticism/berating comments.

There is also the option of anonymous posting in that subforum. So if anybody wanted to share a stupid/idiotic accident they had & how it could be avoided, they could do so without the thought of it being on their personal account and getting lambasted for it.

_Brian

I think it's worth a try anyway. But an online form is hardly going to change the two major factors affecting safety on irish farms, Apathy and the attitude that it "couldn't possibly happen on my farm, that happens others"

Many jobs I've worked in I've been responsible for safety and influencing others attitude to safety and it's a thankless job.

jimd2

I think it is worthwhile and would hope that it will make some contribution, however small, to awareness of the topic.
Hopefully over time very real and worthwhile observations to the issue will be made.

Base price

greysides wrote: »

The intent would be that moderation would be strict enough that genuine experiences recounted wouldn't be punished. After all, they'd only be posted for the benefit of others, the poster would have already learnt from them.

Kovu wrote: »

There is also the option of anonymous posting in that subforum. So if anybody wanted to share a stupid/idiotic accident they had & how it could be avoided, they could do so without the thought of it being on their personal account and getting lambasted for it.

When I put my personal safety at risk I did not think about it at the time. I was reacting to a situation - jacking a calf without a cow/heifer restrained, removing the caul from a calf's head, calf lying flat out after a natural calving, attending to one twin while knowing a bitch of a Blonde cow was calving the second, calf bed appearing and cow getting upset, stock bull breaking out, stock bull breaking into a field of his own daughters, last year 56 sixteen month old FR bulls breaking out onto the driveway of the house and heading for the public road, jumping behind the electric fence and into the ditch (while 7mths pregnant) because the grumpy SI bull decided to have a go at me - we should have got rid of him the year before but we paid at lot for him and took the chance.
I could go on and will probably think about other dangerous/stupid situations that I put myself in when I head to bed - pure nightmare stuff.
I think that when it comes to injuries incurred by livestock they are due to the fact that we (farmers) don't want that calf to die, don't want those cattle to break out onto the road, dont want to loose that cow because if we fail we loose financially and the margins are not their to cover the losses so we react to the situation.
Machinery is another kettle of fish although they are inanimate objects but equally as dangerous. Driver awareness, servicing, knowing the limitations of the machine - I could go on about stupid things that I have done with tractors/diggers and machinery although mostly when I was younger.

Brian - 2 years ago I had to do a Safepass course due to the contract that I was working on at the time. I was the only female amongst 12 men. The men ranged in age from early 20's to late 50's. Most of them had done the course before and were involved in the building/construction industry. To say they were bored out of their heads would be an understatement. Talking to them at tea/lunch break they resented the fact that they had to attend the course to update their ticket.

blue5000

Is it worth combining the other farm accident threads into it?

Kovu

blue5000 wrote: »

Is it worth combining the other farm accident threads into it?

Perhaps, some of them are a little contentious though so maybe a fresh start would be cleaner :pac:
The current ''Farm Accident...Be Careful folks'' thread can certainly be moved up. Just to be clear though- it's not just one thread we have in mind, it's changing the 'Off Season' subforum so that it encompasses both mental & physical health. A megathread of safety tips and tricks would be one to think of though.

longgonesilver

links to safety sites also needed. HSA, Farm safety statement etc.

Came across this, never knew or maybe forgot they existed

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/farm-accident-support-group-to-be-established-in-cork-194652/

_Brian

Just to be the difficult sort and point out an example of where we as a farming community prioritise incorrectly.

Has it already been decided that a sticky where we introduce ourselves is to remain but we have no room for a safety sticky at the top ?

This is why anything safety related is horrible, because you have to harp on and on, over and over about the small stuff too, the stuff that people say "he's some bollox" when ya point it out.

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

Just to be the difficult sort and point out an example of where we as a farming community prioritise incorrectly.

Has it already been decided that a sticky where we introduce ourselves is to remain but we have no room for a safety sticky at the top ?

This is why anything safety related is horrible, because you have to harp on and on, over and over about the small stuff too, the stuff that people say "he's some bollox" when ya point it out.

Remove the intro thread as it's hardly used

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Remove the intro thread as it's hardly used

or remove the forum charter, no one ever reads that;)

dzer2

If it was a non comment thread just write what happened as you seen it, no one comments but can thank the post

ganmo

Reggie. wrote: »

Remove the intro thread as it's hardly used

Put the charter in post 1 of the intro thread

Kovu

_Brian wrote: »

Just to be the difficult sort and point out an example of where we as a farming community prioritise incorrectly.

Has it already been decided that a sticky where we introduce ourselves is to remain but we have no room for a safety sticky at the top ?

This is why anything safety related is horrible, because you have to harp on and on, over and over about the small stuff too, the stuff that people say "he's some bollox" when ya point it out.

Nope, you're not being difficult, it's a good point and has already been discussed before this.
We may be able have a Tag on it similar to [Farm Health & Safety] so it shall be the first thread the eye will see as they come into the forum. However this would mean that it won't be a redirect thread like it is now, but it will be a link to the subforum in the first post of a locked thread if you get me. This is why we want to include it in the Off Season subforum, it is important enough to warrant its own area.

ganmo wrote: »

Put the charter in post 1 of the intro thread

Charters have to be available on the main page of a forum.

ganmo

Keep it stickied, just put the charter in the first few posts

Kovu

ganmo wrote: »

Keep it stickied, just put the charter in the first few posts

Nnnnnyeah, doesn't really work that way, we could get rid of the photo competition if ye wanted? It's all up to ye as it's your forum so this is why we need feedback before changes are implemented

rangler1

Kovu wrote: »

Nnnnnyeah, doesn't really work that way, we could get rid of the photo competition if ye wanted? It's all up to ye as it's your forum so this is why we need feedback before changes are implemented

While it's an important issue, anything we say here isn't going to reduce incidents, the causes are so varied.
Unless there's real over the top legislation brought in, accidents will happen, we're dealing with animals that have a mind of their own, we're using machinery that never requires a NCT, and we're allowing under 16s on our factory floor and we're not required to have any health and safety training
It'd be considered a death trap in any other industry.
So my opinion is that there's no point to making it a sticky, might even attract attention to our neglect

longgonesilver

What if you rename The Off Season to something like
"HEALTH AND SAFETY INCLUDING MENTAL HEALTH AND DEPRESSION"
This would allow anonymous posting and also bring more people into what is a virtually unused forum and help promote the original idea behind The Off Season,

I have no idea how that would look on a phone.

kowtow

Kovu wrote: »

Nope, you're not being difficult, it's a good point and has already been discussed before this.
We may be able have a Tag on it similar to [Farm Health & Safety]

Charters have to be available on the main page of a forum.

All great ideas but would it be better to call it Farm Safety (or Family Farm Safety) rather than Health and Safety?

"Health and Safety", rightly or wrongly, has negative connotations for many who associate it with overweening bureaucracy.

Kovu

kowtow wrote: »

All great ideas but would it be better to call it Farm Safety (or Family Farm Safety) rather than Health and Safety?

"Health and Safety", rightly or wrongly, has negative connotations for many who associate it with overweening bureaucracy.

Sure, I just used that as an example off the top of my head.
It has to include a nod towards depression too as that was the thread that was originally stickied & pre-empted the Off Season.

kowtow

Kovu wrote: »

Sure, I just used that as an example off the top of my head.
It has to include a nod towards depression too as that was the thread that was originally stickied & pre-empted the Off Season.

"Healthy Farmers & Safe Farms"

I said

Each farm is different as regards handling facilities,all stock are unpredictable,machinery getting bigger and more powerful,time or people not having enough time more relevant to part time farmers like me self so rushing doing jobs or trying to get as much done in 4 hrs as should take 8.
Unless all family farms are modelled on them all been in one block of say 100acs and are all set up the same then there will always be the risk of accidents.
In a lot of cases the farmyard is less than ten metres from the home so the dangers involving children are massively increased.A one size fits all will not work.

greysides

I said wrote: »

Each farm is different as regards handling facilities,all stock are unpredictable,machinery getting bigger and more powerful,time or people not having enough time more relevant to part time farmers like me self so rushing doing jobs or trying to get as much done in 4 hrs as should take 8.
Unless all family farms are modelled on them all been in one block of say 100acs and are all set up the same then there will always be the risk of accidents.
In a lot of cases the farmyard is less than ten metres from the home so the dangers involving children are massively increased.A one size fits all will not work.

Fair points but off-topic for this thread.:)

_Brian

I can't understand why we can't have more stickys ??

The motoring forum has six and I feel it works fine, currently we have four.

Kovu

_Brian wrote: »

I can't understand why we can't have more stickys ??

The motoring forum has six and I feel it works fine, currently we have four.

It's not that we don't want it as a sticky but that we feel it's more important and better suited to have it in the subforum which can also be modded differently.
It is a very sensitive subject as can be seen by a few of the threads already on the topic, the OS subforum has a different charter which would work better. A sticky would only be serving the same purpose as a redirect which we have already for the Depression thread, do you get my drift?
Do you all not think that a subforum which can have numerous threads would work better than one longstanding thread? (That is an actual question that I'd like an answer for btw!)

Genghis Cant

Is it possible to have a sticky that when opened would be subdivided in several topics?

ganmo

Kovu wrote: »

It's not that we don't want it as a sticky but that we feel it's more important and better suited to have it in the subforum which can also be modded differently.
It is a very sensitive subject as can be seen by a few of the threads already on the topic, the OS subforum has a different charter which would work better. A sticky would only be serving the same purpose as a redirect which we have already for the Depression thread, do you get my drift?
Do you all not think that a subforum which can have numerous threads would work better than one longstanding thread? (That is an actual question that I'd like an answer for btw!)

I think including safety in the sub forum would be good as it would allow for threads of the different risks like isaid above

Kovu

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Is it possible to have a sticky that when opened would be subdivided in several topics?

No- A sticky can only redirect to a thread. Hence the proposal to have a thread stickied with big bright flashy colours to catch the eye as soon as you access the main forum page. This could then contain one post with a link to the Off-season or many links to different threads.

Your forum - your call

greysides

Well, we've gone 'live' now. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and Taltos for the donkey work.

Taltos

Ah fuppin hell, thought we'd moved beyond you calling me an ass...
Where's my shiny ban hammer, need to dust it off for a mod bannin...

Kovu

An ass who needs the farrier for his tootsies :P
Oh look, now there are no mods left in Farming, oh dear!

Taltos

We tried that before remember....

Merry Christmas everyone. Here's hoping for a dry one.

My father in-laws farm is pretty much underwater at the moment, it looks green but one foot into the field and you sink, don't know how the hell he manages to stay so happy. Maybe it's the thought of chasing me off with his shotgun that puts that smile on his face...

djmc

Might this be a good place to discuss how to make our farms safer ourselves without spending too much money as believe that lack of time pressure working alone and finance especially in a bad year are making farms more dangerous.
one thing that may help would be to ban children from the farmyard its not a place they should be left play or unaccompanied by an adult another is cover all open holes slurry pits etc.
I dont think regulation will do any good as there are just to many variables around a farm.
machinery is another big danger but maintenance gets put on the long finger when markets are bad.
wild or aggressive livestock is another danger and should be gotten rid of but we tend to keep them tell the time suits to get rid eg.
a cross bull (sur ill keep him for 6 weeks tell he has the cows bulled) or a cross cow ( ill keep her tell the end of the year when she is finished milking or has a calf reared) a few minutes a day petting young animals might help as well as breeding docile bloodlines. These are things we need to change ourselves as its our own and our families lives that will be affected at the end of the day
If something happens a farmer working alone is will probably be several hours before he is noticed missing and will get help which could very well be too late.
In an ideal world we might get full grants for all safety items but we have to discuss it and do what we can ourselves.

greysides

djmc wrote: »

Might this be a good place to discuss how to make our farms safer ..............

Not on this thread. You've now a whole new sub-forum to use.