Does alcohol generally make much difference in running ?

Spirogyra

Had 2 and a half beers last night, 3 last saturday and ran 12/13 miles both sunday's, with no discernable difference to time. I know it must do somewhat, I hydrated hugely during the run but I was still surprised at how little difference it made.

Going to try to give up alcohol in the new years, the publicised risks of cancer, has left me a little concerned about raising my risk of breast cancer...

But anyway back on topic, does it affect many people's performance here ?

average_runner

Spirogyra wrote: »

Had 2 and a half beers last night, 3 last saturday and ran 12/13 miles both sunday's, with no discernable difference to time. I know it must do somewhat, I hydrated hugely during the run but I was still surprised at how little difference it made.

Going to try to give up alcohol in the new years, the publicised risks of cancer, has left me a little concerned about raising my risk of breast cancer...

But anyway back on topic, does it affect many people's performance here ?

All about moderation. Personally I would have 2,craft beers on a sat night.

Wild Garlic

average_runner wrote: »

All about moderation. Personally I would have 2,craft beers on a sat night.

Haven't had a drink in about 3-4 weeks. Had a ****e race today, going back on it now😀

Singer

I have experimentally verified that doing a long run with a pounding hangover is a deeply miserable experience and pace & effort levels was definitely affected

In general, not really though. I avoid alcohol for a week or two around races but day to day running doesn't appear to be impacted by being a bit hungover.

Dubgal72

It probably depends on a number of factors and an in-depth knowledge of your tolerance. Two beers or two glasses of wine will knock some people sideways. If you are generally well rested, hydrated and nourished a couple of drinks should have little to no discernable effect. Elite athletes have been known to have a glass of red the night before a competition but they will have incorporated this into their routine having weighed up the risk and reward.

Personally, I find it's the sobering up has the negative effect. I ran a PB on the track aged 15 or 16 having got disgracefully drunk in Slane prior to the David Bowie Glass Spiders tour and walking half the night to meet my poor parents. Pretty sure I wasn't entirely sober in Santry that morning

Spirogyra

Intend to do a 10 Mile race on the 26th, will not be teetotal Christmas day

Dubgal72

Spirogyra wrote: »

Intend to do a 10 Mile race on the 26th, will not be teetotal Christmas day

Best not sober up so.... joking, 10 miles is a *bit* different than 1500m....:D

gctest50

a little bit helps

https://soundcloud.com/university-of-leicester/red-wine

CR 7

To add more anecdotal evidence, I had 3 pints last night and beat my 5k PB this morning. (As well as getting up at 5, to wait around for an hour, to watch 2 grown men punch each other in the face for 13 seconds.)

Typically though, I can't handle more than about 3 or 4 pints without feeling very drunk, and if I did have more than this, I find it very difficult to find the motivation to lace up the running shoes the following day, whether for racing or long runs.

Itziger

In moderation it seems to make absolutely no difference to me. I have a beer or two and a couple of glasses of wine most* weekends (as well as a glass or two the rest of the week).

Getting sloshed would be a different story I suppose. But not having a drop in the days before a race might be negative. The body is confused. Only time I don't have wine is when I'm sick so the brain might take that as a sign. Can't be too careful about these things.

One marathon cycle I gave up almost entirely and improved pb by 2 minutes! Would have done the same or better with the juice.

*Absolutely no idea why I typed 'most' there.

Chivito550

Christmas 2012/13 drank like a fish when my cousins came to visit me in Melbourne. Ate like a king. 4 days after they left I ran a PB in the 400 (small PB but still a PB). Then I seriously cut back on the booze for the rest of the season, ate healthily etc. Did not run faster for the rest of the season.

Make of all that what you will.

BlibBlab

In moderation probably not, but I know for me if I drink hard it'll affect me negatively for a few days afterwards.

Timmaay

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Best not sober up so.... joking, 10 miles is a *bit* different than 1500m....:D

Ran my fair share of distance races hungover to fook (with varying levels of success, most were failures 2bh ha), but couldn't image trying to run a 1500m or any track race as such. At least in longer stuff you can spend the 1st k or so building into the race (by which time I find I stop feeling sorry for myself and ignore the hangover ha), but in middle distance the race over by then ha.

Spirogyra

Timmaay wrote: »

Ran my fair share of distance races hungover to fook (with varying levels of success, most were failures 2bh ha), but couldn't image trying to run a 1500m or any track race as such. At least in longer stuff you can spend the 1st k or so building into the race (by which time I find I stop feeling sorry for myself and ignore the hangover ha), but in middle distance the race over by then ha.

Yes that's been my experience, in the first mile or two there is, a bit of 'grogginess' , maybe, a tiny bit, but by 3 or 4 miles it was well gone and time's , throughout were comparable with my averages....

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Christmas 2012/13 drank like a fish when my cousins came to visit me in Melbourne. Ate like a king. 4 days after they left I ran a PB in the 400 (small PB but still a PB). Then I seriously cut back on the booze for the rest of the season, ate healthily etc. Did not run faster for the rest of the season.

Make of all that what you will.

You were probably very relax for the 400m that day and just let yourself enjoy it as you expected nothing from it.

Djoucer

My completely made up theory is that running with a hangover hardens you up. If you can run a few miles feeling like crap, come race day, you’ll easily manage any low moments.

I reckon, 7 times out of 10, a hangover run ends with you feeling much better than you started. The other 3 times are an awful experience and will have you questioning everything you hold dear.

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

You were probably very relax for the 400m that day and just let yourself enjoy it as you expected nothing from it.

I dunno. I'm always a nervous wreck before 400s. Conditions were pretty sweet that day I guess.

Irish_rat

A lot of posts here are sugar coating the subject.

Alcohol slows down recovery which impedes your running progress.

Hard fact. Also the health benefits of being alcohol free are endless.

DubOnHoliday

Personally, a night on the beer would set me back a week or more. For me its not worth it, so I just stick to 3 or 4 pints when I get out every six months or so . The other side of it is, when you're out running four or more times a week, and you've got family, a night on the beer isn't probably the best use of time.

Itziger

Funny how some people take the OP to mean 'getting sloshed'. Lots of talk of hangovers and like DubO above 'sticking to 3 or 4 pints'.

But the thread says 'Alcohol', not getting off your head.

Irish Rat, have you any links or research to the slowing down recovery claim? How much I wonder, consumed how soon after workout and so on........ There's a lot more to this topic than getting pissed on Saturday.

davedanon

I too would like to see the evidence for the alleged slowdown in recovery. I drink very little beer, but quite a lot of red wine. My theory, based on nothing but my own empirical evidence, is that a few glasses have little or no effect on my own performance. As long as I'm not actually hungover/dehydrated in the morning, I know I'll be fine. Having said that, I know that some people feel terrible in the morning after only a couple of drinks, and take ages to recover when hungover. Last weekend I had a boozy work lunch that started at 1.30pm and wound down around 9. Some soakage and a bus journey later I was in the Old Mill where I had two more pints, before going home and attempting (I failed) to ingest a glass of red. Gave it until the afternoon before venturing out for a nice 10 miler, and at 8.20min per mile it wasn't particularly slow.

Notwork Error

Itziger wrote: »

Irish Rat, have you any links or research to the slowing down recovery claim?

It does slow down recovery time through a ton of different factors. Alcohol is toxic (hence intoxication) and relies on poisoning the system to get the high, being drunk is a side effect of ethanol poisoning, most drugs rely on this mechanism to get a high. A good example would be the fly agric mushroom, the psychoactive property is called muscimol which like ethanol, is poisonous but our thresholds are much lower in tolerating muscimol but the consequences of overdosing remain the same i.e death, coma's etc.

That might seem like a crude comparison but it's not really, one is just socially acceptable, the other not so much. Both are poisonous substances and and not native to our biology and anything toxic will hinder performance, you might get a short term boost but the negatives far outweigh any positives in performance, the liver is on high alert the very minute either enter our body even in small doses. Anything that affects the liver messes with protein uptake and more which is key in recovery and alcohol is also a diuretic. That's about the limit of my knowledge as I don't understand much more.

Pedant aside, none of that bothers me as running is a hobby at the end of the day and I enjoy a little bit of alcohol poisoning and wouldn't mind a few magic mushrooms either right now:)

demfad

Irish_rat wrote: »

A lot of posts here are sugar coating the subject.

Alcohol slows down recovery which impedes your running progress.

Hard fact. Also the health benefits of being alcohol free are endless.

I agree. If it was of any conceivable benefit it would surely be on the list of banned substances. AFAIK the only (Olympic) sport where alcohol is banned is archery.

Notwork Error

demfad wrote: »

AFAIK the only (Olympic) sport where alcohol is banned is archery.

Not sure if that's because it's beneficial. More for everyone else's safety I'd say:pac:

demfad

Notwork Error wrote: »

Not sure if that's because it's beneficial. More for everyone else's safety I'd say:pac:

Yes. It's not banned in practice just in actual competition. i.e. They don't mind you shooting one of your own people in the ass.

Myles Splitz

davedanon wrote: »

I too would like to see the evidence for the alleged slowdown in recovery. I drink very little beer, but quite a lot of red wine. My theory, based on nothing but my own empirical evidence, is that a few glasses have little or no effect on my own performance. As long as I'm not actually hungover/dehydrated in the morning, I know I'll be fine. Having said that, I know that some people feel terrible in the morning after only a couple of drinks, and take ages to recover when hungover. Last weekend I had a boozy work lunch that started at 1.30pm and wound down around 9. Some soakage and a bus journey later I was in the Old Mill where I had two more pints, before going home and attempting (I failed) to ingest a glass of red. Gave it until the afternoon before venturing out for a nice 10 miler, and at 8.20min per mile it wasn't particularly slow.

Will dig out some papers but in mean time here are a few reasons why it impacts recovery

- Alcohol increases Cortisol secretion (stress hormone) which directly impacts immune system, bone formation, sleep, electrolyte and water balance.

- Cortisol has a catabolic effects on muscles affect insulin and growth hormone regulation.

- Alcohol is a toxin which your body has to work (hard!) to remove.

Not saying everyone has to be a monk but at the same time they should realize that it does have a negative effect on training and racing outside the times when you are just too hungover to run fast.

Myles Splitz

Notwork Error wrote: »

Not sure if that's because it's beneficial. More for everyone else's safety I'd say:pac:

Don't try this at home

Firedance

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Will dig out some papers but in mean time here are a few reasons why it impacts recovery

- Alcohol increases Cortisol secretion (stress hormone) which directly impacts immune system, bone formation, sleep, electrolyte and water balance.

- Cortisol has a catabolic effects on muscles affect insulin and growth hormone regulation.

- Alcohol is a toxin which your body has to work (hard!) to remove.

Not saying everyone has to be a monk but at the same time they should realize that it does have a negative effect on training and racing outside the times when you are just too hungover to run fast.

So you're saying the same as NE basically, any alcohol is poison which your body has to work to expel and you don't need to dying with a hangover for it to have a negative affect on training? So one (ok two) glasses of wine while it doesn't feel like its having an impact, is having an impact?

Myles Splitz

Firedance wrote: »

So you're saying the same as NE basically, any alcohol is poison which your body has to work to expel and you don't need to dying with a hangover for it to have a negative affect on training? So one (ok two) glasses of wine while it doesn't feel like its having an impact, is having an impact?

To an extent it is. Having said that if it's something you have become accustomed to and is a mental release by having a glass of wine with dinner or after a stressful day then it can be the lesser of two evils in so much as high stress levels can have more of a negative aspect in terms of cortisol levels.

Personally I would say for the majority of us Joe Bloggs best guide to follow If you do like the odd drink

- No drink the day before or day of a workout
- drink in moderation
- No drink week of a race

I don't have the evidence to support this but I do see a correlation in clients regarding injury risk from muscle tightness and dehydrated, turgid muscles and habitual nights out every weekend/ training day after heavy drinking session.

Firedance

Myles Splitz wrote: »

To an extent it is. Having said that if it's something you have become accustomed to and is a mental release by having a glass of wine with dinner or after a stressful day then it can be the lesser of two evils in so much as high stress levels can have more of a negative aspect in terms of cortisol levels.

Personally I would say for the majority of us Joe Bloggs best guide to follow If you do like the odd drink

- No drink the day before or day of a workout
- drink in moderation
- No drink week of a race

I don't have the evidence to support this but I do see a correlation in clients regarding injury risk from muscle tightness and dehydrated, turgid muscles and habitual nights out every weekend/ training day after heavy drinking session.

personally I prefer a good run after a stressful day I would regularly have a glass of wine on a Friday & Sunday night though, although not Saturday because I prefer to feel completely fresh before a long run, I guess I've just answered my own question then haven't I!

Very interesting topic indeed.

mattser

demfad wrote: »

I agree. If it was of any conceivable benefit it would surely be on the list of banned substances. AFAIK the only (Olympic) sport where alcohol is banned is archery.

I wouldn't care to get too close to the javelin throwers with a few pints on them.

davedanon

What about the Paralympics?

Some of them are completely legless.





I'll get me coat.

Chivito550

Irish_rat wrote: »

A lot of posts here are sugar coating the subject.

Alcohol slows down recovery which impedes your running progress.

Hard fact. Also the health benefits of being alcohol free are endless.

Alcohol is obviously not going to help your running. This is obvious. But the amount say 2 pints 48 hours before a race is going to hinder you would be negligible at the level of running any of us on this forum are operating at. There comes a time when you realise that you can't give up EVERYTHING you enjoy for the sake of a running career, which is never going to go beyond club standard running. Would I give up alcohol for a year to improve my 400m time by 2 or 3 tenths. No way. 2 or 3 seconds, I would consider it. But the amount of drinking I do is not enough to hinder me to a significant level IMO.

Honestly giving up 2 pints on a Friday night so you can run 10km under 40 minutes a week later is completely unnecesary, unless of course you actually want to give up drinking, which is a different story entirely.

davedanon

The biggest problem for me is actually the calories. I know if I quaffed less wine I'd lose some weight. Which would certainly make me consider it, in the short term anyway.

Firedance

davedanon wrote: »

The biggest problem for me is actually the calories. I know if I quaffed less wine I'd lose some weight. Which would certainly make me consider it, in the short term anyway.

And sort of related to this are the bad food choices we tend to make when drinking, even in moderation, which negatively impacts on running.