Pregnant and moving to Ireland to start a new job. Should I tell?

armabelle

Hi everyone. My wife and I are moving to Ireland because she got a job offer and is due to begin in one month. Just recently we found out that she is 9 weeks pregnant and that we are going to have our 2nd baby. As happy as we are about this news we are also concerned about what this means for her job and how her employer may react while discovering this during her probation period which is 6 to 10 months long. Should we say something before we go over or just go and say something only when it is absolutely necessary?

thanks in advance

Stheno

She is probably best to tell them when she starts, from a health and safety perspective if nothing else.

She cannot be let go because she is pregnant, however I'm unsure if she can be let go during probation if there are performance related issues, most companies would be wary of doing so if a woman is pregnant as they would potentially face a claim.

What sort of company is it? Large/small/multinational? Does the company provide maternity benefits?

Bandana boy

It would be pretty rare for Maternity benefits to kick in your first year anyway .My company has one of the most generous in the market but you only get access after your 3rd year.

So as it will not likely cost them money ,I do not see a huge issue I would tell at 3 months as is standard.

I have one of my team who told me one week in too a new job that she was pregnant , was zero issue and most companies would be very progressive on this topic these days.

screamer

Be honest. Yes they can't let her go because she is pregnant but they can let her go for a load of other reasons up to the first 12 months as a new employee you have very few rights and employer can just let you go if they want to and very little you can do about it.

jimmycrackcorm

screamer wrote:

Be honest. Yes they can't let her go because she is pregnant but they can let her go for a load of other reasons up to the first 12 months as a new employee you have very few rights and employer can just let you go if they want to and very little you can do about it.

No sane employer would let a pregnant woman go during probation as it leaves an open question about pregnancy being the real reason. However she could definitely expect to have the probation extended.

davo10

You should tell them of a number of reasons:
• Health & Safety, they have to do a work place risk assessment for you.
• Courtesy, they have placed their faith in you when they hired you, they deserve to be informed as early as possible that special arrangements may be necessary and that any projects you start, you may not be able to complete while on maternity leave.
• As long as you don't tell them, they don't "know" you are pregnant but once they suspect you are, they can let you go for performance issues and then claim they were unaware you were pregnant as you did not notify them. The potential for morning sickness and the refusal to take alcohol at work related social events are giveaways long before the bump shows.

armabelle

Stheno wrote: »

She is probably best to tell them when she starts, from a health and safety perspective if nothing else.

She cannot be let go because she is pregnant, however I'm unsure if she can be let go during probation if there are performance related issues, most companies would be wary of doing so if a woman is pregnant as they would potentially face a claim.

What sort of company is it? Large/small/multinational? Does the company provide maternity benefits?

Hi and thanks for getting back to me. The company is a big multinational company and there is nothing in the contract that speaks about maternity benefits. Is this weird? We thought about asking the HR guy could be the same as telling them that she is pregnant so not sure that that is the way to go since she hasnt even begun working. Since by law you are only required to give 15 weeks, we would like to do that or at least let her start the job before she tells in the hope that her performance will shine out the fact that she needs to go on leave during her probation.

armabelle

Bandana boy wrote: »

It would be pretty rare for Maternity benefits to kick in your first year anyway .My company has one of the most generous in the market but you only get access after your 3rd year.

So as it will not likely cost them money ,I do not see a huge issue I would tell at 3 months as is standard.

I have one of my team who told me one week in too a new job that she was pregnant , was zero issue and most companies would be very progressive on this topic these days.

This makes sense thank you. What you said about the maternity benefits also might explain why nothing is mentioned in the contract? It is probable that there are no benefits....yet. We don't mind not receiving benefits but we just don't want her to lose her job. Since we are mostly moving to Ireland for work and this is a big commitment we are being cautious.

armabelle

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

No sane employer would let a pregnant woman go during probation as it leaves an open question about pregnancy being the real reason. However she could definitely expect to have the probation extended.

In the "Maternity Protection Act" it says that if she has to go on leave during probation she would have to complete the leave when she returns which is fine by us. As I said above, we don't really care about the benefits and don't even feel entitled to receive any benefits from anybody. All we want is for her to not be discriminated against and for her to keep her job after she has the baby. Since the company does not pay her maternity leave (it seems), they don't really lose out in that way but they will lose having her at work which may or may not be a problem for them and it if is a problem for them it may or may not be a problem enough for them to get rid of her for "other" made-up reasons.

The thing is, when she starts work she will be in her 2nd trimester so will definitely show she is pregnant somewhat. Maybe she could hide it for a while but not too long. I guess you could say "so what?" but we just don't know at what point it is best to tell them.

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

You should tell them of a number of reasons:

• As long as you don't tell them, they don't "know" you are pregnant but once they suspect you are, they can let you go for performance issues and then claim they were unaware you were pregnant as you did not notify them. The potential for morning sickness and the refusal to take alcohol at work related social events are giveaways long before the bump shows.

This is a good point but I keep thinking that if she starts working and tells them after a month or two....

1) They will see she is good at her job
2) They will know her in person
3) A replacement person will be out of the picture. In recruitment there is usually a runner-up. someone who didn't get the job that might still be interested. It would be easy to fall back on this person now IMO.

What do you think?

cerastes

davo10 wrote: »

You should tell them of a number of reasons:
• Health & Safety, they have to do a work place risk assessment for you.
• Courtesy, they have placed their faith in you when they hired you, they deserve to be informed as early as possible that special arrangements may be necessary and that any projects you start, you may not be able to complete while on maternity leave.
• As long as you don't tell them, they don't "know" you are pregnant but once they suspect you are, they can let you go for performance issues and then claim they were unaware you were pregnant as you did not notify them. The potential for morning sickness and the refusal to take alcohol at work related social events are giveaways long before the bump shows.

Personally I think its all very deceitful of the OP, I dont think this kind of thing should be tolerable, either knowing or suspecting you might be pregnant and holding out till inevitable benefits kick in.
Some other poster said 3 years, before benefits kick in, I think that sounds like a lot but I think of at least 1 year, in line with when other rights kick in. It's unfair to the employer, mostly I wouldn't be so willing to defend employers but, this is outright deceit and Ive come across examples of it where people have blantantly strung jobs along using this example, it ends up being carried on the shoulders of other employees and the employer.
As for decline alcohol at work events, thats a matter of individual choice to drink or not.

armabelle

cerastes wrote: »

Personally I think its all very deceitful of the OP, I dont think this kind of thing should be tolerable, either knowing or suspecting you might be pregnant and holding out till inevitable benefits kick in.
Some other poster said 3 years, before benefits kick in, I think that sounds like a lot but I think of at least 1 year, in line with when other rights kick in. It's unfair to the employer, mostly I wouldn't be so willing to defend employers but, this is outright deceit and Ive come across examples of it where people have blantantly strung jobs along using this example, it ends up being carried on the shoulders of other employees and the employer.
As for decline alcohol at work events, thats a matter of individual choice to drink or not.

Please can you read my other posts. I am sure you will withdraw what you said here. We don't care about benefits.

davo10

Op, your partner only has protection from being discriminated against once she officially informs her employer of her pregnancy. Until you inform them, she is not protected so if the terminate her contract before you inform them, you will not be able to claim discrimination as technically they do not know she is pregnant. If they guess she is and get pissed off that you didn't inform them and terminate her contract, they could claim no discriminated existed as they did not know she was pregnant.

Look, you are going to have to tell them at some stage, if you want protection from potential discrimination, then tell them immediately.

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

Op, your partner only has protection from being discriminated against once she officially informs her employer of her pregnancy. Until you inform them, she is not protected so if the terminate her contract before you inform them, you will not be able to claim discrimination as technically they do not know she is pregnant. If they guess she is and get pissed off that you didn't inform them and terminate her contract, they could claim no discriminated existed as they did not know she was pregnant.

Look, you are going to have to tell them at some stage, if you want protection from potential discrimination, then tell them immediately.

I hear you but I think we will at least wait until she begins working. Hmmmm...What about starting work and then telling them in the 1st week or two? They couldn't possible know in such a short space that she was pregnant. That way they will meet her and she will be part of the team etc etc?


I have to also tell you a funny story.... this is not the first time something like this has happened. About two years ago, she was offered a job for the same company and she had just found out she was pregnant with our first child. At the time she was employed and didn't want to lose her current job by going into a probation in a new job. She also did not want to hide anything. What happened? She told and they didn't hire her. In this case she did not have a contract yet but they had selected her. She was sure about that. We felt so stupid because we should have waited to have the contract so they could not use the one excuse that they did use which was that they found a local candidate more suitable (she was in another country at the time)

so having said that, please try understand our concern...What would you do?

davo10

armabelle wrote: »

I hear you but I think we will at least wait until she begins working. Hmmmm...What about starting work and then telling them in the 1st week or two? They couldn't possible know in such a short space that she was pregnant. That way they will meet her and she will be part of the team etc etc?

If she works with other women, they will know. Once the contract is signed, you cannot be discriminated against. Is your partner employed in a contract of indefinite duration or is it a fixed term contract?

Lisha

For the best chance for your wife to keep the job in the long run I would say to tell them ASAP.
Anything else just looks dishonest and leaves a bad taste in the employers mouth.

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

If she works with other women, they will know. Once the contract is signed, you cannot be discriminated against. Is your partner employed in a contract of indefinite duration or is it a fixed term contract?

Indefinite contract but the contract does say that there is a probation for 6 months which can be extended to 10 months

armabelle

Lisha wrote: »

For the best chance for your wife to keep the job in the long run I would say to tell them ASAP.
Anything else just looks dishonest and leaves a bad taste in the employers mouth.

hey Lisha thanks a lot for your reply and suggestion... please read my post above and try to understand what that tasted like two years ago LOL. Would you still tell them ASAP?

davo10

armabelle wrote: »

hey Lisha thanks a lot for your reply and suggestion... please read my post above and try to understand what that tasted like two years ago LOL. Would you still tell them ASAP?

Ok, let's look at this another way, what benefit is it to you not to tell them if the contract is already signed? The longer you don't tell them, the less protection against discrimination your wife has as well as health & safety/risk assessment issues.

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

Ok, let's look at this another way, what benefit is it to you not to tell them if the contract is already signed? The longer you don't tell them, the less protection against discrimination your wife has as well as health & safety/risk assessment issues.

The only things I can think of are what I said in the post above:

1) They will see she is good at her job
2) They will know her in person
3) A replacement person will be out of the picture. In recruitment there is usually a runner-up. someone who didn't get the job that might still be interested. It would be easy to fall back on this person now IMO.

davo10

armabelle wrote: »

The only things I can think of are what I said in the post above:

1) They will see she is good at her job
2) They will know her in person
3) A replacement person will be out of the picture. In recruitment there is usually a runner-up. someone who didn't get the job that might still be interested. It would be easy to fall back on this person now IMO.

Has she signed the contract?
The 3 points above really don't matter as they cannot discriminate against her just because she is pregnant once they are told. I understand your reluctance but I think it shows a lack of courtesy, puts the company in a bind in terms of H&S and has the potential to really piss them off. But again, my main concern for you both is hat until you inform them, they can terminate her contract for no reason during the probationary period, if they hear a whisper then they can get there action in before you get the protection your wife is entitled too.

Mrs OBumble

armabelle wrote: »

Please can you read my other posts. I am sure you will withdraw what you said here. We don't care about benefits.

It's not only about benefits.

It's also return on investment for the initial training she will get. she will work for 3-6 months and then disappearing maternity leave for months. The company hired someone to do the job,not to swan off on leave.

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

Has she signed the contract?
The 3 points above really don't matter as they cannot discriminate against her just because she is pregnant once they are told. I understand your reluctance but I think it shows a lack of courtesy, puts the company in a bind in terms of H&S and has the potential to really piss them off. But again, my main concern for you both is hat until you inform them, they can terminate her contract for no reason during the probationary period, if they hear a whisper then they can get there action in before you get the protection your wife is entitled too.

Yes she has signed the contract. OK thanks we will definitely consider your suggestion.

armabelle

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's not only about benefits.

It's also return on investment for the initial training she will get. she will work for 3-6 months and then disappearing maternity leave for months. The company hired someone to do the job,not to swan off on leave.

If she goes on leave for three months and works for twenty years in the company thereafter and excels at her job then what difference does it make. I think companies look at the big picture as well.

lazeedaisy

armabelle wrote: »

hey Lisha thanks a lot for your reply and suggestion... please read my post above and try to understand what that tasted like two years ago LOL. Would you still tell them ASAP?

You ask for opinions, you give us lots of info, you get advice and tell us to read your own posts...

....you obviously want us to agree with your opinion, so what's the point of asking then!

When you come on a forum looking for advise, you actually need to read the advice.....

What your wife is doing, whilst not illegal, does not make for good working relations, along with being in a new country, with a toddler, she will have to cope with however the reception will be, be upfront, why can you not nderstand that advice?

maryfred

armabelle wrote: »

The only things I can think of are what I said in the post above:

1) They will see she is good at her job
2) They will know her in person
3) A replacement person will be out of the picture. In recruitment there is usually a runner-up. someone who didn't get the job that might still be interested. It would be easy to fall back on this person now IMO.

The probation period is to see if someone is good at their job and is a good fit for the team. No manager or employer is going to know this in a week or two. Nor will they know her in person.
What happens if she has a hospital appointment or needs to see a doctor or needs sick leave for a pregnancy related issue before she tells them.
They're possibly going to need a replacement person anyway because your wife will be out on maternity leave for 6 months.
Speaking of your wife, you're posts seem to me to suggest that you're the one making the decision. What does she think?
You seem to have your mind made up. IMO I think it will be a bad start to your wife's relationship with this company not to tell them immediately.

Lisha

armabelle wrote: »

hey Lisha thanks a lot for your reply and suggestion... please read my post above and try to understand what that tasted like two years ago LOL. Would you still tell them ASAP?

I would be honest from the start.
You asked for opinions and that is mine.

Best if luck to you with everything by the way

armabelle

lazeedaisy wrote: »

You ask for opinions, you give us lots of info, you get advice and tell us to read your own posts...

....you obviously want us to agree with your opinion, so what's the point of asking then!

When you come on a forum looking for advise, you actually need to read the advice.....

What your wife is doing, whilst not illegal, does not make for good working relations, along with being in a new country, with a toddler, she will have to cope with however the reception will be, be upfront, why can you not nderstand that advice?

I definitely don't want anyone to agree with me. I want honest advice. Me asking you to read my post is not "obviously" anything. I just wanted to share a story about what happened to us in the past.

armabelle

maryfred wrote: »

The probation period is to see if someone is good at their job and is a good fit for the team. No manager or employer is going to know this in a week or two. Nor will they know her in person.
What happens if she has a hospital appointment or needs to see a doctor or needs sick leave for a pregnancy related issue before she tells them.
They're possibly going to need a replacement person anyway because your wife will be out on maternity leave for 6 months.
Speaking of your wife, you're posts seem to me to suggest that you're the one making the decision. What does she think?
You seem to have your mind made up. IMO I think it will be a bad start to your wife's relationship with this company not to tell them immediately.

Maybe it appears this way because I am the one writing LOL. Thanks for your help!

armabelle

Lisha wrote: »

I would be honest from the start.
You asked for opinions and that is mine.

Best if luck to you with everything by the way

Thanks Lisha! We really appreciate it

Neon_Lights

She may as well take the job, she'd have difficulty here getting an abortion

The employer can hardly say you can't have kids, although it may be looked on disfavourably in some companies who will try and get rid of during probation

user.name

As far as I know an employer legally cannot dismiss your wife on the grounds that she is pregnant that will amount to discrimination. It doesn't matter if she is on probation or not. Keeping in mind, they of course can end her contract if they feel that she is not a fit for the company once it does not involve her pregnancy.
When she does go on maternity leave the probationary period would be on pause and continues on until she comes back. As for regards to keeping her job when she comes back, they cannot fire her for being on maternity leave, unless for example for economic reasons in which the employer has to make cuts to jobs in the company. Discrimination in terms of pregnancy in the workplace has a lot of protection under EU and Irish law.
Generally I would tell when she gets to the three month mark, especially for health and safety reasons.

One eyed Jack

armabelle wrote: »

If she goes on leave for three months and works for twenty years in the company thereafter and excels at her job then what difference does it make. I think companies look at the big picture as well.

I think it's you're not looking at the bigger picture here OP. You can't assume your wife will work for the company for the next 20 years, or that she will excel at her job when she hasn't even started yet. You're making all sorts of positive presumptions on everyone else's behalf, and completely ignoring the meaning of the word 'probation'.

The company may decide at the end of her probationary period that your wife hasn't excelled at her job, that your wife may not be the candidate they were looking for after all, and may have no problem with letting your wife go at the end of her probationary period and hiring someone else.

At least if your wife shows herself to be honest, trustworthy, and up-front with her employer, that will stand to her more in the long term as an employee, than if her employers feel she is untrustworthy.

Padster90s

I think she should tell HR before she starts. Its the honest and decent thing to do. If she tells them after working there a few weeks I think there is a very good chance the next question she'll be asked it how far gone you are...Its what I'd ask! It doesn't look good on your wife's part, you know. The boss/manager might think she isn't the most honest person, it could leave a distrust there.

Glinda

I'm going to go against the majority here and say that I don't think it's advisable to tell the company before your wife has actually taken up the position.

You can probably tell from some of the posts that there are a considerable number of people who take a very dim view of women taking maternity leave (although few will come directly out and say that). It would be foolish to assume that this view isn't reflected in the management of the company your wife is joining, at least to some extent.

There is a reason why the protections afforded to women around pregnancy and work are so strong in law, and that is precisely because without this legal protection a significant number of employers would choose not to accommodate women who need to take time off to have children, and might even choose not to employ them at all. Not everyone thinks this way of course, but it only takes a bit of bad luck and an encounter with the wrong person and you can find yourself off the hiring list for any number of spurious reasons (of course if they have any sense they will not mention the pregnancy, but will manufacture another reason).

It's all very well to say you should be honest and upfront from the beginning, fully trusting the employer to do the right and honourable thing. To me that is a little naive. I would keep my counsel until there is a practical reason to inform the employer. You might find that for health and safety reasons, it is important that they know straight away. If not, then your reproductive life is not really their business until they need to know.

Best of luck with relocation, and with the pregnancy!

_Brian

Tell the truth, its near always the way forward..
If they really want rid then they can knock her off for some spurious reason during her probation. One work mistake, late morning or a number of other issues and she's fair game on genuine reasons..

If she comes clean they can't not start her because of the pregnancy, its documented and least any late or absence due to morning sickness etc can't be thrown against her during probation..

Its always a gamble but I think there is more to be lost by not telling, telling creates a bit of cover with the pregnancy.

armabelle

Glinda wrote: »

I'm going to go against the majority here and say that I don't think it's advisable to tell the company before your wife has actually taken up the position.

You can probably tell from some of the posts that there are a considerable number of people who take a very dim view of women taking maternity leave (although few will come directly out and say that). It would be foolish to assume that this view isn't reflected in the management of the company your wife is joining, at least to some extent.

There is a reason why the protections afforded to women around pregnancy and work are so strong in law, and that is precisely because without this legal protection a significant number of employers would choose not to accommodate women who need to take time off to have children, and might even choose not to employ them at all. Not everyone thinks this way of course, but it only takes a bit of bad luck and an encounter with the wrong person and you can find yourself off the hiring list for any number of spurious reasons (of course if they have any sense they will not mention the pregnancy, but will manufacture another reason).

It's all very well to say you should be honest and upfront from the beginning, fully trusting the employer to do the right and honourable thing. To me that is a little naive. I would keep my counsel until there is a practical reason to inform the employer. You might find that for health and safety reasons, it is important that they know straight away. If not, then your reproductive life is not really their business until they need to know.

Best of luck with relocation, and with the pregnancy!

Quite possibly the best possible reply yet. Thank you!

bucketybuck

armabelle wrote: »

Since the company does not pay her maternity leave (it seems), they don't really lose out in that way but they will lose having her at work which may or may not be a problem for them

May or may not be a problem? Do you think they are hiring somebody just for the hell of it? Of course its a problem if after going to the expense of hiring they still don't have anybody doing the job that needed doing. They are now worse off than they were before, and while pregnancy is a protected class there is no point pretending it isn't a problem for the company.

user.name wrote: »

As far as I know an employer legally cannot dismiss your wife on the grounds that she is pregnant that will amount to discrimination. It doesn't matter if she is on probation or not. Keeping in mind, they of course can end her contract if they feel that she is not a fit for the company once it does not involve her pregnancy.

The company cannot let her go for being pregnant, but being pregnant does not mean they can't let her go.

Its foolish to rely on the fact that pregnancy is a protected class, a switched on manager can easily create a situation where the employee is let go during probation for other reasons, and with whatever paperwork and supporting information is needed to support the decision should it be contested.

The question is whether the company will want to do this or will they be prepared to accommodate the lady. A huge factor in this will be if they feel she is worth accommodating, which they won't do if they think she was dishonest right from the start.

The company is not your wife's enemy, there to be hoodwinked. If she wants to be a part of the company long term I would suggest she act appropriately and part of that is not lying by omission.

armabelle wrote: »

Quite possibly the best possible reply yet. Thank you!

Ah, the old classic, the best replies are the ones that tell me what I wanted to hear! :pac:

armabelle

bucketybuck wrote: »

May or may not be a problem? Do you think they are hiring somebody just for the hell of it? Of course its a problem if after going to the expense of hiring they still don't have anybody doing the job that needed doing. They are now worse off than they were before, and while pregnancy is a protected class there is no point pretending it isn't a problem for the company.


The company cannot let her go for being pregnant, but being pregnant does not mean they can't let her go.

Its foolish to rely on the fact that pregnancy is a protected class, a switched on manager can easily create a situation where the employee is let go during probation for other reasons, and with whatever paperwork and supporting information is needed to support the decision should it be contested.

The question is whether the company will want to do this or will they be prepared to accommodate the lady. A huge factor in this will be if they feel she is worth accommodating, which they won't do if they think she was dishonest right from the start.

The company is not your wife's enemy, there to be hoodwinked. If she wants to be a part of the company long term I would suggest she act appropriately and part of that is not lying by omission.

Ah, the old classic, the best replies are the ones that tell me what I wanted to hear! :pac:

Not what I want to hear but what seems reasonable to me. I usually only ask for advice so I can discard it and do what I/we think is right anyway. It must be a psychological flaw of mine

Glinda

It is quite a leap to say that not telling the employer immediately is deceiving them. They are not entitled to make decisions about the employee as a result of this information (other than health and safety, which I already mentioned), so why do they need it?
Unless the information is genuinely needed immediately for practical reasons, it is perfectly legitimate for the employee to decide to keep it private for a while. The required notice for maternity leave us set out in the legislation. That is the only obligation on the employee (other than h&s).
I am not saying withhold telling them until the last minute, just that there is nothing wrong with waiting until you have an actual reason to discuss the matter with your employer.

davo10

armabelle wrote: »

Quite possibly the best possible reply yet. Thank you!

You finally found someone to agree with you, the "best reply" for you is the one that agrees with you.

Incidentally, no one said they were unhappy about an employee taking maternity leave, the question is whether it is best to tell the employer immediately or later when you have to. Most employers don't mind an employee being pregnant, but many would be disappointed not to be informed as early as possible so that provisions can made. I still stand by my opinion that your partner can be let go during probation while you fail to officially inform them. I guess you'll find out one way or the other soon enough.

armabelle

Glinda wrote: »

It is quite a leap to say that not telling the employer immediately is deceiving them. They are not entitled to make decisions about the employee as a result of this information (other than health and safety, which I already mentioned), so why do they need it?
Unless the information is genuinely needed immediately for practical reasons, it is perfectly legitimate for the employee to decide to keep it private for a while. The required notice for maternity leave us set out in the legislation. That is the only obligation on the employee (other than h&s).
I am not saying withhold telling them until the last minute, just that there is nothing wrong with waiting until you have an actual reason to discuss the matter with your employer.

This sounds very sensible, thanks Glinda. And I also agree that it is not deceitful. I wish I had asked for your advice before we lost the other job opportunity two years ago for telling them before receiving an actual contract. We were very naive!

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

You finally found someone to agree with you, the "best reply" for you is the one that agrees with you.

Incidentally, no one said they were unhappy about an employee taking maternity leave, the question is whether it is best to tell the employer immediately or later when you have to. Most employers don't mind an employee being pregnant, but many would be disappointed not to be informed as early as possible so that provisions can made. I still stand by my opinion that your partner can be let go during probation while you fail to officially inform them. I guess you'll find out one way or the other soon enough.

Or they can be let go before even beginning probation as was our case two years ago?

davo10

armabelle wrote: »

This sounds very sensible, thanks Glinda. And I also agree that it is not deceitful. I wish I had asked for your advice before we lost the other job opportunity two years ago for telling them before receiving an actual contract. We were very naive!

You are still naive. The scenario you are concerned about ( loss of job) is still a possibility if she is let go before you officially inform them. You realise that once the contract is signed, from that moment forward they cannot discriminate against her based on pregnancy, but any day between now and the date you tell them, they absolutely can let her go.

ToRamona

armabelle wrote: »

Hi everyone. My wife and I are moving to Ireland because she got a job offer and is due to begin in one month. Just recently we found out that she is 9 weeks pregnant and that we are going to have our 2nd baby. As happy as we are about this news we are also concerned about what this means for her job and how her employer may react while discovering this during her probation period which is 6 to 10 months long. Should we say something before we go over or just go and say something only when it is absolutely necessary?

thanks in advance

I think you need to be honest with the employer before the start date otherwise it comes across as dishonest. Im aware of the maternity rules etc. Do you think moving to another country at this time is the right move? Are you looking for work here?

Glinda

ToRamona wrote: »

I think you need to be honest with the employer before the start date otherwise it comes across as dishonest.

Why is it dishonest? Do you feel people should always keep their employer informed about their personal life as soon as developments occur? Or is it just pregnant women?

As for most employers "don't mind" women employees being pregnant, that statement kind of illustrates my point - it's really none of their business whether people are pregnant or not, except insofar as they need to make proper arrangements to facilitate them and keep them safe at work.

Sadly, this idea has failed to penetrate for some people, and they still regard a pregnant employee as something to be tolerated at best.

Hence my caution about letting them know before you need to. Dav010, I see your point about how they can't dismiss her for being pregnant once they officially know about it, but in my experience the job may just disappear, or be no longer required, before the start date.

bucketybuck

Glinda wrote: »

As for most employers "don't mind" women employees being pregnant, that statement kind of illustrates my point - it's really none of their business whether people are pregnant or not, except insofar as they need to make proper arrangements to facilitate them and keep them safe at work.

Of course its their business, being pregnant fundamentally changes the employees ability to do their job, not least because she won't be there to do it.

Saying an employer doesn't need to know about it is like saying they don't need to know about an employee heading to jail for a few weeks, or a driver losing their license. The employee is paid to do a job, the company needs them to do their job, if something is going to stop them doing their job they need to know about it.

You talk as if being pregnant is like going to a night course, or anything else that has no effect on job performance, which is of course blatantly not correct.

davo10

Glinda wrote: »

Do you feel people should always keep their employer informed about their personal life as soon as developments occur? Or is it just pregnant women?

As for most employers "don't mind" women employees being pregnant, that statement kind of illustrates my point - it's really none of their business whether people are pregnant or not, except insofar as they need to make proper arrangements to facilitate them and keep them safe at work.

Sadly, this idea has failed to penetrate for some people, and they still regard a pregnant employee as something to be tolerated at best.
.

Unfortunately your view point is ill informed. It is very much an employer's business if an employee is pregnant, the employer is required to do a risk assessment for the employee to satisfy H&S regs. To not do so leaves the employee and the baby at risk of injury and the employee at risk of a claim for negligence.

The absence of any employee for any reason can cause disruption and you are quite right, it is at best "tolerated", I do not know of any reason why any employer would be happy for an employee to be absent for an extended period except where the business is doing badly and it suits to have someone off the payroll.

Employers could not care less about your "personal life" but pregnancy brings with it a whole set of particular obligations and precautions which must be arranged and adhered to by both the employee and the employer so that both are protected.

armabelle

Glinda wrote: »

Why is it dishonest? Do you feel people should always keep their employer informed about their personal life as soon as developments occur? Or is it just pregnant women?

As for most employers "don't mind" women employees being pregnant, that statement kind of illustrates my point - it's really none of their business whether people are pregnant or not, except insofar as they need to make proper arrangements to facilitate them and keep them safe at work.

Sadly, this idea has failed to penetrate for some people, and they still regard a pregnant employee as something to be tolerated at best.

Hence my caution about letting them know before you need to. Dav010, I see your point about how they can't dismiss her for being pregnant once they officially know about it, but in my experience the job may just disappear, or be no longer required, before the start date.

Exactly! This kind-of happened to us in 2013 for the same company albeit in another country. Luckily it did happen else she may never have gotten this opportunity. Funny how things work out sometimes.

armabelle

davo10 wrote: »

Employers could not care less about your "personal life" but pregnancy brings with it a whole set of particular obligations and precautions which must be arranged and adhered to by both the employee and the employer so that both are protected.

So would you tell them right away so long as you had a signed contract? We do have a contract but it is not signed by the company, should it be?

davo10

armabelle wrote: »

So would you tell them right away so long as you had a signed contract? We do have a contract but it is not signed by the company, should it be?

Contract offered is implied, sign it, send it back, get the start date then inform. There is "honesty" and then there is "honest endeavour", it is not dishonest not to inform, but there is courtesy and the "right thing to do". If you can't be up front with your employer, how then can you expect anything more of them.

It's a tough call no doubt but to be honest it won't be an easy situation for the employer either, the best thing for both is to be as forthright as possible, the longer time goes on, the more potential for the employer to feel you were less than forthright by not informing them and even though you may have safe guarded the job, they won't forget.