Cyclocross bike - decisions

CramCycle

After talkign to a friend who was stuck between two very different cross bikes, I have started to consider one for myself as well. After popping down to my LBS, I am between the following:

Kona Jake the Snake (although I would take the Kona Jake if someone could confirm they are the same frame with different paint).

or

Cube Cross Race Pro

I have no idea which to choose, the cube seems better specced in terms of groupset and brakes, although the wheels and tyres look better on the Kona.

I suppose my question is which is the better frame? As everything else can be looked at over time. And if the Kona Jake is the same frame, I might just go for that.

Lumen

Doozerie has posted extensively (we would expect nothing less) on the subject of his disappointing experiences of the Kona Rove.

I'd go for the Cube. Can't go wrong with German stuff, in my experience.

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

Doozerie has posted extensively (we would expect nothing less) on the subject of his disappointing experiences of the Kona Rove.

I'd go for the Cube. Can't go wrong with German stuff, in my experience.

I suppose the follow up would be did anyone have any experience of the cube cross race, I might go for a few races next year, although for the most part it will just be my return to using gears on a bike again.

Is the frame decent? My LBS has a few so I might pop down again tonight.

Colonel Panic

I've got a 2015 Kona Jake the Snake and I'm pretty much in love with it. To confirm, the Jake is the same frame with a lower spec other things.

detones

Bought a cube in September and it's a lovely bike. Very comfortable on the road and hydraulic discs are awesome. In the few races I've done have had no mechanicals at all.

Tenzor07

Why Cube or Kona?

Not too brands i'd jump at for a CX bike...

CramCycle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Why Cube or Kona?

Not too brands i'd jump at for a CX bike...

They get good reviews, they are in a certain price range (although the Kona is slightly above), they look nice. I only thought of the Kona after seeing clubmates doing quite well on them at the local CX races.

I went out and tried a CAADX and just didn't like it (despite loving the CAAD10 and 12) and no matter how good a bike is, if I don't like it, then there is no point in trying.

If you have other suggestions for a decent bike with a good frame in that region I am all ears, certainly not tied to the two, just the ones that I had seen and liked. I also prefer alu over carbon but wouldn't be expecting a Carbon in my range anyway.

OldBean

Would you look at a Genesis CDF?

CramCycle

bedlam wrote: »

2016 Jake and JTS are different. Different aluminium, have subtle geometry differences as well as rear caliper placement (seat stay on the jake, chain stay on the JTS)

Is the 2015 different? I noticed the differences on the 2016 6061 vs 7005 but the 2015 looked very similar but couldn't guarantee it.

My LBS have also told me that the KONA 2016 prices are higher (about 200 over the asking price of the previous year for the JTS) than 2015 although KONA will honour the 2015 prices until the end of December (although he could just be sucking me in).

Tenzor07

CramCycle wrote: »

If you have other suggestions for a decent bike with a good frame in that region I am all ears, certainly not tied to the two, just the ones that I had seen and liked. I also prefer alu over carbon but wouldn't be expecting a Carbon in my range anyway.

I've had a Giant TCX but swapped to an Alu Focus, have to say, the fit, handling and reliability have made it feel like a lot more than the sum of it's parts..

Keep your eye out for some of this years bikes going on sale now that the season is coming to an end, you may pick up a bargain!

CramCycle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I've had a Giant TCX but swapped to an Alu Focus, have to say, the fit, handling and reliability have made it feel like a lot more than the sum of it's parts..

Keep your eye out for some of this years bikes going on sale now that the season is coming to an end, you may pick up a bargain!

I don't like the Giant, grand to ride but just isn't my cuppa tea. There are two crowds selling Focus in my area one is a shop I won't buy from as I have had a bad experience with them in the past, hence why I ruled them out and the other don't have any 2015 stock in/left unfortunately (but they are a nice shop).

bedlam wrote: »

Yeah 2015 Jake and 2015 JTS look to be the exact same frame, it's just components that differ

Just got word back from my LBS, they only have the JTS from 2015, no Jakes left so that's the end of that one.

Peterx

Just make sure that whatever it is it has 15mm through axle wheelset and disc brakes, after that it comes down to how much money you can spend.
My spare bike at Swords last week had cantis and the difference was literally night and day. Go disc.

I got the Trek Crockett 5 disc from Wheelworx which is aluminium and has mechanical discs - obviously hydraulic would have been nicer but once you keep good cables and compressionless cable housing on them they are brilliant.


The handling and brakes are great. Rob got it in for me in a week.
Focus had delays from their Irish shops for their aluminium model (I asked Alfie in Experts) In fairness that may be because the likes Robin Seymour does swear by Focus (although he does also sell them in Alfie's shop)

The downsides to the Aluminium Crockett are that's it relatively heavy as race bikes go and the rear axle is 9mm which prevents me buying a bling wheelset - I have to buy individual wheels for front and rear.

cunavalos

if you are not limited to an lbs and disc brakes . How about a focus mares ax with 10speed ultegra DI2 for €1299
http://www.bunnyhop.de/de/fahrraeder/rennrad/focus-mares-ax-ltd-di2-2015-20166

CramCycle

cunavalos wrote: »

if you are not limited to an lbs and disc brakes . How about a focus mares ax with 10speed ultegra DI2 for €1299

Limited to an LBS but not any particular one.

MediaMan

Lumen wrote: »

Doozerie has posted extensively (we would expect nothing less) on the subject of his disappointing experiences of the Kona Rove.

On the same theme... I have a Kona Jake, and I would strongly recommend against it. The bike was very badly put together, I've had repeated problems with most of the componentry on the bike and I've had to replace or upgrade a lot of the parts. Also, if there's any chance you might get into CX racing - it's very heavy for that (about 11.5 kgs).

inc21

Good CX bikes are not cheap. Focus seems to be quite popular at any cx race I have been this year but even their lowest model starts well over a grand. Through RAT axles do work on them tho.

CramCycle

inc21 wrote: »

Good CX bikes are not cheap. Focus seems to be quite popular at any cx race I have been this year but even their lowest model starts well over a grand. Through RAT axles do work on them tho.

I was looking for a decent alu frame and if needs must would upgrade over time. I don't and certainly won't have thee money for high level CX racing, ever, something that would give me a fair chance at a local race would be the main aim.

nak

I got an aluminium Specialized Crux this season - frameset only and built it up over a few months. My other bike is a Kinesis Crosslight and they are like night and day. Crosslight never felt particularly race orientated and I get toe overlap with the front wheel. This is gone with the Crux, it handles brilliantly and feels surprisingly like my carbon Tarmac SL4 on the road.

Went for TRP HyRd discs and they are great, but cantis only ever bothered me in a wet race with carbon wheels (not much stopping power). Keeping the Crux as a race bike and the Kinesis for commuting.

There is quite a high turnover of cross bikes, you might get nearly new second hand after the season - I know a few people who are talking about upgrading for next season.

Lumen

I think for CX racing only, on a budget, I'd prefer cantis for lightness and simplicity. Also, external rather than internal cable routing.

There are some awful CX bikes on the market, much more so than road bikes. I had a Spesh Tricross and a Planet X Uncle John, neither of which was much fun.

nak

Lumen wrote: »

There are some awful CX bikes on the market, much more so than road bikes. I had a Spesh Tricross and a Planet X Uncle John, neither of which was much fun.

The Tricross isn't designed for racing. I do know people who did well enough on the Planet X bike, not ideal geometry though.

Lumen

nak wrote: »

The Tricross isn't designed for racing. I do know people who did well enough on the Planet X bike, not ideal geometry though.

Yeah, that's my point - there are loads of them out there. IMO the whole category of "non-racing CX bike" deserves nuking from orbit.

I was reading some forum commentary (elsewhere) on the various Planet X and On-One CX bikes, and an owner of an XLS (not a cheap bike itself) and Cannondale SuperX reckoned the Cannondale was way better.

And the XLS is promoted as a race bike.

Kaisr Sose

Interesting discussion. I too am considering a cyclocross bike - but mainly for 30-50km commute, and some forest track riding. I looked at the Di2 Focus linked above before and thought it was a well spec'd bike for the price, however the electronic shifting seems overkill for my needs.
Anyone got more recommendations in around €1500. I am not set on buying from LBS, though I have never used my B2W entitlement. Size needed is circa XS /S (47/50cm) depending on TT length. Current bike is (S) 51cm Focus.
Also any thoughts on this from PX

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBTOMVRIV22MD/tomac-mesa-verde-sram-rival-11-mechanical-disc-cyclocross-bike

Though i was thinking alu. Complex cyclocross ....

Craig06

I ride a CaadX but my brother has this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/vitus-bikes-energie-cyclo-x-bike-2016/rp-prod134321

Both very capable bikes

smacl

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I too am considering a cyclocross bike - but mainly for 30-50km commute, and some forest track riding. I looked at the Di2 Focus linked above before and thought it was a well spec'd bike for the price, however the electronic shifting seems overkill for my needs.
Anyone got more recommendations in around €1500.

Based on similar enough requirements, I went for a Rose Pro CX 3000 Hydraulic. Advertised at 8.9kg for a cross bike, its light enough and easy to configure with purchase. Great bike when it got here, but due to a fork recall it took 15 weeks, which took a lot of joy out of the purchase. Great bike for long leisure spins and exploring the countryside, including light off road. I find the Ultegra really excellent, being very light to the touch, and wouldn't really want Di2.

boomdocker

I have the Rose Pro DX Cross - awesome bike - bought it in August 2014 so have had two full seasons of cx racing and light summer use on the road

Cost about €1300 with upgraded Crossride wheelset, 10spd 105, with Ultegra shifters, full internal cable routing and cable discs, Frame finish is excellent, polishes up like new after each race...I have the matt black version looks great - my mate has the gloss white, looks equally as good

Awesome bike - one of the best Ive had, and I've had a rake of bikes - mtb and road through the years

Tenzor07

Generally speaking, anything under around €1600 and with an Alu frame will be a competent racer and commuting bike, also good for adventure races..

Anything €1800++ and carbon framed will be pretty much suited to racing only..

Kaisr Sose

Thanks guys, I had been looking at Rose, Canyon and Bergamont offerings - all good German value offerings. Can anybody help with where to find Rose geometry ? Some of their cyclocross frames start at 52cm, but I don't know how that's measured. Assume it's something like c to vtt, but it would be nice to see the chart and also see ETT length.

smacl

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Can anybody help with where to find Rose geometry ?

From the frame page for the CX 3000;

Alek

They never say about the most important thing in a CX bike (opinion after a few recent races): mud clearance. If I was looking for another racing bike this would be the priority.

Mr. Grieves

Alek wrote: »

They never say about the most important thing in a CX bike (opinion after a few recent races): mud clearance. If I was looking for another racing bike this would be the priority.

Yeah and it's never mentioned in the canti vs disc debate either. I don't think braking performance makes much difference in a cross race, but cantis definitely clog up badly at the cable bridge. Full length cable housing is another good idea for mud.

CramCycle

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

Yeah and it's never mentioned in the canti vs disc debate either. I don't think braking performance makes much difference in a cross race, but cantis definitely clog up badly at the cable bridge. Full length cable housing is another good idea for mud.

Would this put the cube up there at the top of the list with disc, seemingly decent clearance (although others with more experience can comment) and internal cabling?

It is also available in shiny red, which means it would match my track bike and my kit.

Mr. Grieves

CramCycle wrote: »

Would this put the cube up there at the top of the list with disc, seemingly decent clearance (although others with more experience can comment) and internal cabling?

Only if your performance in the muddiest races is the most important thing to you - lots of other factors would impact on day-to-day riding more.

CramCycle

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

Only if your performance in the muddiest races is the most important thing to you - lots of other factors would impact on day-to-day riding more.

I suppose the question is are there any negatives to the cube then in this regard. Is the cube a decent all rounder for racing in Ireland?

Lumen

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

Yeah and it's never mentioned in the canti vs disc debate either. I don't think braking performance makes much difference in a cross race, but cantis definitely clog up badly at the cable bridge. Full length cable housing is another good idea for mud.

So why were the pros were so reluctant to switch to discs?

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

So why were the pros were so reluctant to switch to discs?

Not all were reluctant.

nak

Lumen wrote: »

So why were the pros were so reluctant to switch to discs?

Because they're heavier than cantis. Technology is better now and it is possible to have a 6.8kg bike with discs. Nys was using cantis again at Mol on Saturday.

RobFowl

Lumen wrote: »

So why were the pros were so reluctant to switch to discs?

Weight, lack of perceived advantage from discs and the fact that many had 10-20 sets of expensive wheels which would become obsolete overnight

Mr. Grieves

Lumen wrote: »

So why were the pros were so reluctant to switch to discs?

They have bike changes every lap.