False accusation of racism

Boooourns

Looking for advice here please. A close friend of mine got into an argument with a Black man in work recently, my friend works behind the counter and the man was a customer, the man left the shop and they thought that was the end of it.
The next day the district manager rang my friend as the man had accused my friend of being racist and making a racist remark, my friend denied his accusation as it was completely made up and the other person working in the shop witnessed it and backed up my friend. The district manager then rang the man back up and asked what was said, the manager then rang back and told my friend the man stumbled over his words when asked and didn't say give any example. He quite clearly made this up.
My friend was very upset at the accusation and shaken over the whole ordeal. The company want it brushed and have only given the man a warning about his future behaviour in the shop meaning he can go back onto the shop.
I'm just wondering what can be done here, he obviously wanted my friend sacked and played the racist card which is pathetic thing to do to someone especially against someone who hasn't a racist bone in their body. The company want it brushed under the carpet but we don't think he should be able to get away with something like this.

.45auto

Boooourns wrote: »

Looking for advice here please. A close friend of mine got into an argument with a Black man in work recently, my friend works behind the counter and the man was a customer, the man left the shop and they thought that was the end of it.
The next day the district manager rang my friend as the man had accused my friend of being racist and making a racist remark, my friend denied his accusation as it was completely made up and the other person working in the shop witnessed it and backed up my friend. The district manager then rang the man back up and asked what was said, the manager then rang back and told my friend the man stumbled over his words when asked and didn't say give any example. He quite clearly made this up.
My friend was very upset at the accusation and shaken over the whole ordeal. The company want it brushed and have only given the man a warning about his future behaviour in the shop meaning he can go back onto the shop.
I'm just wondering what can be done here, he obviously wanted my friend sacked and played the racist card which is pathetic thing to do to someone especially against someone who hasn't a racist bone in their body. The company want it brushed under the carpet but we don't think he should be able to get away with something like this.

Its a common enough occurance not much will come of it. Such is life in the PC paradise of the west.

coylemj

He will get away with it because the only remedy in law will be to sue him for defamation and even if your friend wins the case and is awarded damages, the chances of getting your man to pay up will be nil. And because you're not chasing a Government agency or someone covered by an insurance company, he will need to fund the case out of his own pocket with zero probability of being able to recoup the costs from the other guy. In short, this would be a no-hope case.

This is similar to what the cops have to put up with on a daily basis, your friend will just have to write it off.

Boooourns

coylemj wrote: »

He will get away with it because the only remedy in law will be to sue him for defamation and even if your friend wins the case and is awarded damages, the chances of getting your man to pay up will be nil.

This is similar to what the cops have to put up with on a daily basis, your friend will just have to write it off.

Yeah was thinking they could go for legal advice and sue for defamation of character but like you say there is probably no good to come out of this.
One of the most disappointing outcomes was the reaction of the company, they're happy to let this fella back into their shop despite his actions. My friend really feels undermined in this whole episode.
I was fuming as my friend was crying at the thought of being called a racist. Horrible experience.

.45auto

Boooourns wrote: »

Yeah was thinking they could go for legal advice and sue for defamation of character but like you say there is probably no good to come out of this.
One of the most disappointing outcomes was the reaction of the company, they're happy to let this fella back into their shop degspite his actions. My friend really feels undermined in this whole episode.
I was fuming as my friend was crying at the thought of being called a racist. Horrible experience.

Was your friend a girl?

The_Minister

Defamation is the only remedy I'm afraid.(EDIT: that I can see)

Even if you somehow managed to get a barrister to take the case and do most of the work for the chortle (it'd be great fun to run as a case and would get reported) and a pittance, you'd struggle to get a briefing solicitor to do even the minimum needful without some reasonable payment.

Even under the most favourable terms possible, unless you have serious favours to call in the fees would certainly outweigh the recoverable value.

On the best day you'd have to spend hundreds (if not thousands) of euro to rake this lad over the coals...and he might even fight it, leading to a larger costs liability.

Remember, an award of damages is only as valuable as the amount it can be enforced for; many a man is has been rich on a court order but poor in life.


That said, sometimes people litigate for reasons other than money; if your friend wants to make a stand he can do so. And pay for the pleasure.

Boooourns

The_Minister wrote: »

Defamation is the only remedy I'm afraid.(EDIT: that I can see)

Even if you somehow managed to get a barrister to take the case and do most of the work for the chortle (it'd be great fun to run as a case and would get reported) and a pittance, you'd struggle to get a briefing solicitor to do even the minimum needful without some reasonable payment.

Even under the most favourable terms possible, unless you have serious favours to call in the fees would certainly outweigh the recoverable value.

On the best day you'd have to spend hundreds (if not thousands) of euro to rake this lad over the coals...and he might even fight it, leading to a larger costs liability.

Remember, an award of damages is only as valuable as the amount it can be enforced for; many a man is has been rich on a court order but poor in life.


That said, sometimes people litigate for reasons other than money; if your friend wants to make a stand he can do so. And pay for the pleasure.

Cheers for that. Looks like I'll be telling my mate to leave it go, sadly money is the winner here as its just not worth the loss to get the win.
Sad state of affairs where someone can get away with this, mud can stick easily on people, luckily there was another witness there who can back them up but it was a horrible experience for them.
Still fuming at the company mind, they've worked there for over 15 years and was treated like this.

The_Minister

Boooourns wrote: »

Cheers for that. Looks like I'll be telling my mate to leave it go, sadly money is the winner here as its just not worth the loss to get the win.
Sad state of affairs where someone can get away with this, mud can stick easily on people, luckily there was another witness there who can back them up but it was a horrible experience for them.
Still fuming at the company mind, they've worked there for over 15 years and was treated like this.

Pity - it'd be a cracking fun case to take...but reality must take hold.

MarkAnthony

Just to put another side of this across.

It's very difficult for businesses to sack people over these sorts of allegations. The customer needs to be ready to provide all sorts of information to the accused. I think it stops short of being cross examined but I could be wrong.

It's extremely upsetting. I've seen people lose their jobs over customers winding them up - not racism, but a simple declaration of frustration in earshot of the customer. I've had someone try it with me back in the day; in a certain south Dublin suburb it seems to be par for the course. Personally I think it makes someone a scumbag liar but then I didn't get on with the local populous and was much happier dealing with 'Scum bags' on Henry street any day.

End of Rant

Arbiter of Good Taste

Can your friend refuse to deal with him in future. Ask a colleague to deal with him if he comes in again? If management kick up a fuss start going on about being uncomfortable in his work environment, bullied/harassed by a customer. Management get very nervous when staff start talking like that.

Any HR people out there with any thoughts.

dissed doc

Why is it not reportable as a hate crime? Accusation based on presumption of race-related prejudice .

MarkAnthony

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Can your friend refuse to deal with him in future. Ask a colleague to deal with him if he comes in again? If management kick up a fuss start going on about being uncomfortable in his work environment, bullied/harassed by a customer. Management get very nervous when staff start talking like that.

Any HR people out there with any thoughts.

You'd really want to be raising it as a grievance and getting it dealt with properly. IF you've a receptive line manager that is always on with you you might go informally. Alternatively, just need a wee wee every time the guy comes in.

Personally I'd just pretend I had no idea who the guy was or that anything had happened. One of the most cutting insults I ever had after apologising for being a knob to someone in CS was, I didn't even remember.

The_Minister

dissed doc wrote: »

Why is it not reportable as a hate crime? Accusation based on presumption of race-related prejudice .

This isn't an American sub.

huey1975

Imagine how Luis Suarez felt?

Annasopra

dissed doc wrote: »

Why is it not reportable as a hate crime? Accusation based on presumption of race-related prejudice .

In what sense is it a hate crime?

Boooourns

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Can your friend refuse to deal with him in future. Ask a colleague to deal with him if he comes in again? If management kick up a fuss start going on about being uncomfortable in his work environment, bullied/harassed by a customer. Management get very nervous when staff start talking like that.

Any HR people out there with any thoughts.

That's what I've told them to do, just refuse to serve him. If the management has a problem with that then its really up to them to sort it.
There's no way in hell I'd serve him anyway, he'd have some cheek looking to get served although he probably doesn't care since he's tried to get them sacked by lying.

MarkAnthony

Boooourns wrote: »

That's what I've told them to do, just refuse to serve him. If the management has a problem with that then its really up to them to sort it.
There's no way in hell I'd serve him anyway, he'd have some cheek looking to get served although he probably doesn't care since he's tried to get them sacked by lying.

I'd be careful freelancing with that idea.

The_Minister

Boooourns wrote: »

That's what I've told them to do, just refuse to serve him. If the management has a problem with that then its really up to them to sort it.
There's no way in hell I'd serve him anyway, he'd have some cheek looking to get served although he probably doesn't care since he's tried to get them sacked by lying.

Careful now. If someone makes an equality complaint, and you victimise them for it, they can claim, and generally get a larger award than if you actually were racist towards them in the first place.

Pocoyo

Similar situation to when a man is falsely accused of rape somehow the accuser is still the victim....that black lad might of felt racially abused before in the long long ago think about that before you condemn his troubled soul. Poor little fella.

.45auto

Pocoyo wrote: »

Similar situation to when a man is falsely accused of rape somehow the accuser is still the victim....that black lad might of felt racially abused before in the long long ago think about that before you condemn his troubled soul. Poor little fella.

Racism isint possible. We are all one race. The human race. You insinuating that we are all different is divicive and racist. You sir need to check your privelege

fiachr_a

.45auto wrote: »

Its a common enough occurance not much will come of it. Such is life in the PC paradise of the west.

Why can't Irish play the racist card against blacks here?

.45auto

fiachr_a wrote: »

Why can't Irish play the racist card against blacks here?

Ah man. We were the original slaves, irish people weve been subjigated since forever we should start playing the race card

Boooourns

The_Minister wrote: »

Careful now. If someone makes an equality complaint, and you victimise them for it, they can claim, and generally get a larger award than if you actually were racist towards them in the first place.

Would their false accusation of racism count against them if that did happen?