The Floods

guylikeme

I dont want to start an "If its outside Dublin, it dont get discussed on boards" rumour but....

This has been headlines for nearly a week and nobody discussing it?

Making a stand. The floods are bad. THERE!

Seriously though, why do people blame the politicians for their dopey living arrangements right next to huge rivers which have a history of bursting their banks. 6 years to move/sort themselves out but no, theyll be grand.

Corpus Twisty

guylikeme wrote: »

I dont want to start an "If its outside Dublin, it dont get discussed on boards" rumour but....

This has been headlines for nearly a week and nobody discussing it?

Making a stand. The floods are bad. THERE!

Seriously though, why do people blame the politicians for their dopey living arrangements right next to huge rivers which have a history of bursting their banks. 6 years to move/sort themselves out but no, theyll be grand.

Kneemos discussed it. The answers silicone.

CB19Kevo

Yeah,one of the TD's came out and said people need to take responsibility themselves as well as the council/opw trying to put in measures.

Easier said than done for some but for many they could limit the damage by putting in flood barriers around there driveways.
Often the water only encroaches a foot or less into the property which can still cause massive damage.

Its a mix of solutions really,Bad planning does have a lot to do with it,But we are where we are.

The floods are affecting properties that were not previously affected though. The floods around here in South Kerry affected houses that were there for decades, a long way from significant rivers, and not the "apartments stuck on floodplains" stuff.

Superhorse

Will continue I'm afraid this is the new normal now and yet some still think climate change is a joke. Look at the amount of rain on the way yet again this weekend and its obvious the "once in a hundred years" tripe thrown out there is nonsense.

jamesbere

The quicker we roof Ireland the better

kneemos

Superhorse wrote: »

Will continue I'm afraid this is the new normal now and yet some still think climate change is a joke. Look at the amount of rain on the way yet again this weekend and its obvious the "once in a hundred years" tripe thrown out there is nonsense.

This is why nobody believes the climate change proclaimers.
Making stuff up and claiming it's true does nothing for the cause.

Akrasia

The problem is that whenever you build flood defences in one place, it pushes the flood downstream to the next vulnerable spot. The water has to go somewhere, and thanks to moronic planning by corrupt politicians, flood plains around the country are now occupied by ghost estates, and due to global warming, the once in a lifetime rain event of 2009 has become a twice in a decade event 6 years later.

Telling people to sell their property and move is hardly a viable solution. Whoever they sell the property to, someone is going to be flooded. Abandoning the properties (entire towns and villages sometimes) is not a very palatable solution either.

The best course of action is for the council to take responsibility for ensuring that flood defences are as good as they can be, and maintained properly. And that whenever there is a risk of flooding, that sandbags are distributed and people are evacuated where there is a risk to their lives.

Akrasia

kneemos wrote: »

This is why nobody believes the climate change proclaimers.
Making stuff up and claiming it's true does nothing for the cause.

Nobody except the vast vast majority of experts in all the relevant scientific fields

jamesbere

kneemos wrote: »

This is why nobody believes the climate change proclaimers.
Making stuff up and claiming it's true does nothing for the cause.

Climate Change Proclaimers

I will flood 500 ml
and I will 500 more
just to be the flood that a brings 1000 ml
up to your door

underwater

underwater

Sh1tbag OToole

I have slowly lost interest in floods since I left school

jamesbere

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I have slowly lost interest in floods since I left school

How can you forget those geography lessons, interlocking spurs, v shaped valleys, flood plains.
It had it all

BattleCorp

Akrasia wrote: »

The best course of action is for the council to take responsibility for ensuring that flood defences are as good as they can be, and maintained properly. And that whenever there is a risk of flooding, that sandbags are distributed and people are evacuated where there is a risk to their lives.

Why wait until there is a risk of flooding? If I lived in an area where there was a risk of flooding, I'd have a big stack of sandbags put aside ready for use.

I'm a kind of proactive type of person. I'd have sandbags, but I'd also build walls, clay banks etc around my property. I'd also have the house as protected as possible should water get through the outer defenses.

It all depends on how much money you have to throw at the problem.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

NiallBoo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The floods are affecting properties that were not previously affected though. The floods around here in South Kerry affected houses that were there for decades, a long way from significant rivers, and not the "apartments stuck on floodplains" stuff.

Decades isn't very long in this context.

Just because it doesn't happen very often doesn't mean you should build a house there.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

Why wait until there is a risk of flooding? If I lived in an area where there was a risk of flooding, I'd have a big stack of sandbags put aside ready for use.

Like a room full? Sandbags don't fit neatly into the cupboard in the utility room. Plus they are not really watertight, they just prevent the worst effects of flooding.

NiallBoo

NiallBoo wrote: »

Decades isn't very long in this context.

Just because it doesn't happen very often doesn't mean you should build a house there.

In the case of Kenmare, houses that were there about 300 years.

The point I was making is that the suggestion that the only houses flooded are Celtic Tiger ones built on floodplains is not accurate. Whole towns are now being flooded, like Fermoy being regularly hit, Cork seems to get an annual disaster now (though of course it is largely built over water, it was not nearly as great a problem before as it is now).

BattleCorp

Deleted User wrote: »

Like a room full? Sandbags don't fit neatly into the cupboard in the utility room. Plus they are not really watertight, they just prevent the worst effects of flooding.

I wasn't really thinking of the cupboard in the utility room. I was thinking more of the bottom drawer where the plastic bags are kept.

Seriously though, I know that they aren't totally watertight, but looking at the water coming in and doing nothing about it isn't really my style. I do acknowledge that there are plenty of houses that you can do fcukall to stop the water coming in.

NiallBoo

Would it be cheaper in the long run for the government to buy up at risk properties now at a reasonable price?

Rather than continue to build flood defences that will be increasingly inadequate as global warming makes these extreme events more frequent and more extreme.

BattleCorp

NiallBoo wrote: »

Would it be cheaper in the long run for the government to buy up at risk properties now at a reasonable price?

Rather than continue to build flood defences that will be increasingly inadequate as global warming makes these extreme events more frequent and more extreme.

Lots of people won't move. It's their home, their life.

Sh1tbag OToole

jamesbere wrote: »

How can you forget those geography lessons, interlocking spurs, v shaped valleys, flood plains.
It had it all

I didn't go to them. The road to school was flooded

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

NiallBoo

BattleCorp wrote: »

Lots of people won't move. It's their home, their life.

Well every village has idiots. the same ones that object to planning for flood defences...

I think that a lot of people would bite your hands off for the chance to move after repeated flooding and no insurance but can't afford to because of how little their houses are now worth.

If you've been given a good solution but refuse to take it then who do you have to blame but yourself?

biko

guylikeme wrote: »

I dont want to start an "If its outside Dublin, it dont get discussed on boards" rumour but....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97985419 AH thread

NiallBoo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the case of Kenmare, houses that were there about 300 years.

The point I was making is that the suggestion that the only houses flooded are Celtic Tiger ones built on floodplains is not accurate. Whole towns are now being flooded, like Fermoy being regularly hit, Cork seems to get an annual disaster now (though of course it is largely built over water, it was not nearly as great a problem before as it is now).

Fair enough. But I wouldn't assume that those houses have never flooded before.

What I was thinking is that when an area has ever flooded on record then we shouldn't permit building within a few metres elevation of that. Kenmare has surely flooded before but you hardly would have been refused planning in older parts of the town for risk of flooding? This doesn't make sense to me.

I just don't know what you can do with cork, short of building a barrage across the mouth of cork harbour.

NiallBoo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Like a room full? Sandbags don't fit neatly into the cupboard in the utility room.

You could make a decent couch out of sandbags. Not to mention garden furniture.

Flint Fredstone

Superhorse wrote: »

Will continue I'm afraid this is the new normal now and yet some still think climate change is a joke. Look at the amount of rain on the way yet again this weekend and its obvious the "once in a hundred years" tripe thrown out there is nonsense.

So heavy rain twice in the space of a few days during the Winter is extraordinary now?

BattleCorp

NiallBoo wrote: »

I think that a lot of people would bite your hands off for the chance to move after repeated flooding and no insurance but can't afford to because of how little their houses are now worth.

It's not as simple as telling people to move. Farmers might be reluctant to move away from their land, their livestock etc.

Elderly people might be reluctant to move away from their neighbours, support network etc.

And where would these people move to? Have a look at the news, there's a shortage of houses in the country.

If you've been given a good solution but refuse to take it then who do you have to blame but yourself?

People haven't been given a good solution, that's the problem. Flood defenses might work in some towns, but they won't work in rural Ireland. Hard to flood defend the entire Shannon basin and every other area that is likely to flood. And as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, flood defenses only push the problem further downriver. The water has to go somewhere.

NiallBoo

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's not as simple as telling people to move. Farmers might be reluctant to move away from their land,

farmers at least have the choice of moving to a higher point on their land. Expensive but probably cheaper in the long run.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Elderly people might be reluctant to move away from their neighbours, support network etc.

And where would these people move to? Have a look at the news, there's a shortage of houses in the country.

No shortage in the regions being hit by flooding. You wouldn't have to move far. The problem is that on the past we had to build near a water source and we continue to build nearby. Crazy as it sounds, moving towns up the road a bit could actually be a better solution.

You're not going far so support networks shouldn't be disrupted.

BattleCorp wrote: »

People haven't been given a good solution, that's the problem. Flood defenses might work in some towns, but they won't work in rural Ireland. Hard to flood defend the entire Shannon basin and every other area that is likely to flood. And as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, flood defenses only push the problem further downriver. The water has to go somewhere.

No they haven't been given a good solution, that's why I was suggesting one that wouldn't rely on flood defences.

CelticRambler

Deleted User wrote: »

The floods are affecting properties that were not previously affected though. The floods around here in South Kerry affected houses that were there for decades, a long way from significant rivers, and not the "apartments stuck on floodplains" stuff.

NiallBoo wrote: »

Decades isn't very long in this context.

Just because it doesn't happen very often doesn't mean you should build a house there.

Apart from learning about interlocking spurs, V-shaped valleys and flood plains when I was in school, I also took an interest in the origins of placenames, many of which roughly translate as "you'd be a feckin' eejit to build a house here" ... but of course 20th/21st century developers think they can defeat Mother Nature.

This isn't just an Irish phenomenon. When I lived in England, a developer bought a lovely riverside site around the corner from us, and built a dozen premium-quality detached houses. They sold in a flash, and no-one (except me, obviously :pac: ) thought twice about the name: Water Meadows. A few years later, the rains came, the field flooded, the houses floated up on their concrete raft foundations and all hell broke loose!

Akrasia wrote: »

Telling people to sell their property and move is hardly a viable solution. Whoever they sell the property to, someone is going to be flooded. Abandoning the properties (entire towns and villages sometimes) is not a very palatable solution either.

That's exactly what happened here in France a few years ago. Again, an unscrupulous developer bought cheap seaside land, then built and sold expensive sea-view appartments. Storm Xynthia made that an indoor view. Subsequently, the local government took a cold hard look at the cost vs. benefit vs. compensation equation and declared the area uninhabitable, pretty much overnight.

At the end of the day, most people walk around without giving any thought to the landscape around them, and the fact that it's a "living, breathing creature" that will only put up with so much interference.

cowboyBuilder

jamesbere wrote: »

The quicker we roof Ireland the better

What about a massive project to try and drag Ireland a few thousand miles south ?

We'd be lovely in there amongst the canaries

CelticRambler

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

What about a massive project to try and drag Ireland a few thousand miles south ?

We'd be lovely in there amongst the canaries

Be careful what you wish for!

Canary Islands battered by fierce storms and torrential rain


http://globalnews.ca/video/2297701/torrential-rains-cause-severe-flooding-on-canary-island
Canary Islands experienced extreme flooding that caused the roads of Telde to flood, washing away cars (Oct)

Niall Keane

The "homes" in " The Neale", Mayo, seem to be built high up away from flood waters..... the only issue is that the village has now become an island.... some with tractors can get out.... but not towards Ballinrobe.... those road are under at least 1.5m of water.
Im not sure of i lived there id be up to driving to Headford in a tractor for basic provisions.....

Its amazing how, all light-heartedness, best of british, keep the chin up aside, that noone has considered the effect of flooded roads, but instead mock those whose homes are flooded.

The op is right though, when i lived in dublin the response to flooding and i mean 6 inches, was like a die hard movie.
Softies!!!

Niall Keane

I do have to laugh at the minister though.... and a great response nonsense....
So you drive around the lake district and half hour down a road you get a small red sign saying "road flooded". Great effort.... its just that well whats the point as the swans swimming across the road are more visible!

bizidea

What would happen if all the man made weirs and dams were removed from the Shannon especially ardnacrusha and parteen it's the esb that is trying to control the levels of the Shannon and mother nature can't be controlled.I doubt if ardnacrusha is actually that efficient at producing electricity it was built that long ago

cowboyBuilder

any good galeries of flood photos up ?

CelticRambler

bizidea wrote: »

I doubt if ardnacrusha is actually that efficient at producing electricity it was built that long ago

The power of water's still the same as it's been for the last million years. They can replace the generating equipment inside as often as needed and you'd never know it.

I was listening to that lady on Sean O'Rourke saying her father (-in-law?) would never have let her husband build their house where it is if he thought there was a risk of flooding. It reminded me of a short story we did in Irish (wayyyy back in the 80s :eek: ) Some old guy refused to move to the new house built by his children and warned them about how the wind was always really strong around there and their house would fall down, whereas his had stood for 200 years. Well, in the end,

their new house disrupted the course of the wind and it was his rickety auld house that fell down, with him in it

.

Now that I think about it, I had the same teacher for Irish as Geography. Maybe I should look him up and thank him for keeping me safe from global warming! :pac:

NiallBoo

bizidea wrote: »

What would happen if all the man made weirs and dams were removed from the Shannon especially ardnacrusha and parteen it's the esb that is trying to control the levels of the Shannon and mother nature can't be controlled.I doubt if ardnacrusha is actually that efficient at producing electricity it was built that long ago

Flooding would be at least as severe.
You'd lose security of water supply and usability of the water-ways.

It's a lot easier to blame a state body than mother nature. The capacity of a river is small compared to what's going into it and there's really nothing they can do.

Ardnacrusha doesn't produce a huge amount of power but it also doesn't have a very high head of water. If it made sense to upgrade the turbines then it probably would have been done.

My family home is in an area close to a river and the flooding this year has been far worse than the flooding in 2009. There's roadworks going on in the area; they're building a new motorway, and it is causing floods to happen where they never have before.

topper75

bizidea wrote: »

What would happen if all the man made weirs and dams were removed from the Shannon especially ardnacrusha and parteen it's the esb that is trying to control the levels of the Shannon and mother nature can't be controlled.I doubt if ardnacrusha is actually that efficient at producing electricity it was built that long ago

Interesting question.

It is not too hard to work out the effect. The Shannon would simply become its old self. This course is plainly visible on the old OS maps before the 1920s.
Parteen Basin would just become a river again surrounded by fields and old buildings.
The speed of the river would pick up alright on a year-round basis but there would be much less backup beyond its banks in winter.

Yes the power produced nowadays at Ardnacrusha is negligble as a percentage of the national grid. Even houses in that immediate area are largely powered from Moneypoint, believe it or not.

Be sad to see it finish though - biggest engineering project in all of Europe in its day!

Harry Palmr

It'll never happen but an exclusion zone along the southern half of the Shannon is required - move everyone out who lives within say 5 KMs of the Shannon. Let it flood when it needs to.

cml387

Now might be a good time for Irish Water to push though that plan to use Shannon river water to supply Dublin.

KERSPLAT!

Here

and here

One could say we are 'flooded' with threads on the subject. See what I did there?