open marraige

LegacyUser

im at my wits end. my wife and i are going through a tough time, have been for about 18 months now. it started when she went back to college to do a masters, ive no problem whatsoever with her wanting to better herself.very proud of her, but she has changed completely. without going into details i asked for a trial seperation last week,she doesnt want to, but came up with the idea of an open marraige. ive agreed, but only for the sake of our children. the thoughts of it really makes my stomach turn, i know each to their own, but i really need some advice about this. how can i be ok knowing shes out with other men?

iusedtoknow

collie12 wrote: »

im at my wits end. my wife and i are going through a tough time, have been for about 18 months now. it started when she went back to college to do a masters, ive no problem whatsoever with her wanting to better herself.very proud of her, but she has changed completely. without going into details i asked for a trial seperation last week,she doesnt want to, but came up with the idea of an open marraige. ive agreed, but only for the sake of our children. the thoughts of it really makes my stomach turn, i know each to their own, but i really need some advice about this. how can i be ok knowing shes out with other men?

You can't, an open marriage only works when both are on the same page. Two of my friends have one and it works well, another set (on the other side of the world) tried and failed miserably.
She can't force you to stick around, if you want to separate...say it and take action. There are worse things for kids than separation, one of them is a miserable parent in an unhappy marriage.

silverharp

collie12 wrote: »

im at my wits end. my wife and i are going through a tough time, have been for about 18 months now. it started when she went back to college to do a masters, ive no problem whatsoever with her wanting to better herself.very proud of her, but she has changed completely. without going into details i asked for a trial seperation last week,she doesnt want to, but came up with the idea of an open marraige. ive agreed, but only for the sake of our children. the thoughts of it really makes my stomach turn, i know each to their own, but i really need some advice about this. how can i be ok knowing shes out with other men?

its not an answer and you shouldnt have to put up with this, it will hollow you out. Keep talking for sure but your wife needs to be reminded she made and has responsibilities and commitments, but revoke this "agreement" in the first instance

kylith

This isn't the sort of thing you can compromise on, it needs both people to want it. If I were you I'd either insist on couples counselling or just call it a day. Even if she agreed not to sleep around she's not happy in the relationship.

Shrap

collie12 wrote: »

i asked for a trial seperation last week,she doesnt want to, but came up with the idea of an open marraige.

I think you were right in your first instance there OP. In fact, why do a trial? I'm being blunt here, I know, but realistically speaking your wife is in cloud cuckoo land if she thinks that she gets to have a live in parent for your children while she goes off on a relationship trip with other fellas and you're left at home, gutted. Nobody can stay sane under those circumstances and I want to advise you that you would be putting your children's needs first by standing up for yourself and looking after your self-respect and mental health, even if it means that splitting up is the way to do that.

The more protracted version of this is to go to couples counselling together, but tbh, if she's wanting to be with other men and isn't respecting how you feel about that.....I wouldn't give good odds on your marriage coming back together. Sorry OP - that's just my opinion and definitely not want you want to hear, but I really hope you try and do some damage-limitation for yourself here.

mapaca

To be honest, a trial separation or an open marriage both seem like options that you might discuss further down the road after trying other things first, eg. loads of talking, compromising, making more time for each other, etc. Have you tried any of these? You don't say what the problem is apart from "she's changed" so it's hard to suggest other solutions. Maybe marriage counselling would be helpful?

An open marriage will never work if it's not what you both truly want.

LegacyUser

we got together very young, have a child doing her leaving cert this year. also 2 young kids 4 and 3. it would break my heart to break up this home. now, she says im allowed to go off with other people as well, but why would i want to do that? i take my vows seriously. she says its not a sexual thing, which i believe, we do have a healthy sex life, but im not stimulating her mentally.

zoobizoo

collie12 wrote: »

...... but im not stimulating her mentally.

That's more of a problem and probably one that can never be fixed.

What is her reason for wanting to stay together?

LegacyUser

zoobizoo wrote: »

That's more of a problem and probably one that can never be fixed.

What is her reason for wanting to stay together?

Love, familiarity, afraid.we've been together nearly 20 years, a lifetime together.

iusedtoknow

collie12 wrote: »

Love, familiarity, afraid.we've been together nearly 20 years, a lifetime together.

So she wants the best of both worlds? Not to be blunt - but usually the one wanting an open marriage is the one that wants to play away from home (or already has) and wants a way to explain their behavior.

You need to see that your wife is wanting the "college experience" while having you at home watching the kids. In short, you'd be a cuckold husband. Is this what you want? Is this something you could deal with - putting your youngest to bed while your wife is out and about? If you can...you're a stronger man than me - as I would be out the door before she had finished the sentence including the words "open marriage".

Jan Laco

Sounds like she is seeing someone at college and jumped on the opportunity to push the open marriage excuse.

njs030

collie12 wrote: »

she says its not a sexual thing, which i believe, we do have a healthy sex life, but im not stimulating her mentally.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought an open marriage was about having sex with other people? From what you've said she seems to want full relationships with mental stimulation while you mind the kinds for free.

If you don't like it just say no, don't do things you're not happy with.

seamus

Jan Laco wrote: »

Sounds like she is seeing someone at college and jumped on the opportunity to push the open marriage excuse.

People often jump to that conclusion, but it's rarely correct. However it's often correct that their eyes have already been wandering; when they speak of an open marriage it's not something they want "to start trying", they've already been laying the groundwork in terms of who they're interested in, and want the freedom to push those opportunities a bit more. In the OP's case there's likely an attractive man that his wife has become friendly with in college, and she sees an "open marriage" as a chance to be a 20 year old around him again.

College can always be a rough time for relationships because it introduces a level of personal freedom - social and intellectual, not just sexual - that most people haven't experienced before, and to have a partner "holding you back" is something many people find frustrating.

notjustsweet wrote: »

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought an open marriage was about having sex with other people? From what you've said she seems to want full relationships with mental stimulation while you mind the kinds for free.

It's not necessarily about sex. If it was just about having sex with other people, there are plenty of swinging clubs around to get that. It's very often about being able to explore the dating experience and getting to know other people and getting to know yourself outside of the you who is the married "you".

As others have said, an open marriage without both people being fully into it is rarely a good idea. Often the initiator will head off riding all around them, while the other sits around in gut-wrenching jealousy making token brief (and usually unsuccessful) attempts to shag other people.

This was posted elsewhere recently: http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/what-open-marriage-taught-one-man-about-feminism.html
While it portrays a facade of a contented man in a happy open marriage, reading between the lines reveals a man who has been browbeaten into one against his will and acts as a childminder while his wife heads off with other men. He's convinced he does it because he wants to support her, but it's clear he doesn't like it - he suppresses his anger about it - and was railroaded into it because he was afraid of losing his marriage.

Your OP reminded me a lot of this article and the hell you could find yourself in if you don't retract this "agreement" now.

LegacyUser

seamus wrote: »

People often jump to that conclusion, but it's rarely correct. However it's often correct that their eyes have already been wandering; when they speak of an open marriage it's not something they want "to start trying", they've already been laying the groundwork in terms of who they're interested in, and want the freedom to push those opportunities a bit more. In the OP's case there's likely an attractive man that his wife has become friendly with in college, and she sees an "open marriage" as a chance to be a 20 year old around him again.

College can always be a rough time for relationships because it introduces a level of personal freedom - social and intellectual, not just sexual - that most people haven't experienced before, and to have a partner "holding you back" is something many people find frustrating.

It's not necessarily about sex. If it was just about having sex with other people, there are plenty of swinging clubs around to get that. It's very often about being able to explore the dating experience and getting to know other people and getting to know yourself outside of the you who is the married "you".

As others have said, an open marriage without both people being fully into it is rarely a good idea. Often the initiator will head off riding all around them, while the other sits around in gut-wrenching jealousy making token brief (and usually unsuccessful) attempts to shag other people.

This was posted elsewhere recently: http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/what-open-marriage-taught-one-man-about-feminism.html
While it portrays a facade of a contented man in a happy open marriage, reading between the lines reveals a man who has been browbeaten into one against his will and acts as a childminder while his wife heads off with other men. He's convinced he does it because he wants to support her, but it's clear he doesn't like it - he suppresses his anger about it - and was railroaded into it because he was afraid of losing his marriage.

Your OP reminded me a lot of this article and the hell you could find yourself in if you don't retract this "agreement" now.

@seamus, you've hit nail on head there. She has this new found freedom and doesn't give a toss about me or kids for that matter. She just wants to be free and single again. i know she has been faithful,I believe her when she says she has,but sooner or later she will.

Exclamation Marc

collie12 wrote: »

im at my wits end. my wife and i are going through a tough time, have been for about 18 months now. it started when she went back to college to do a masters, ive no problem whatsoever with her wanting to better herself.very proud of her, but she has changed completely. without going into details i asked for a trial seperation last week,she doesnt want to, but came up with the idea of an open marraige. ive agreed, but only for the sake of our children. the thoughts of it really makes my stomach turn, i know each to their own, but i really need some advice about this. how can i be ok knowing shes out with other men?

Put simply, you can't.

Those sort of feelings of discomfort won't change and as others have said there are no similar compromising solutions that will suit both parties.

I'm not sure though how agreeing to an open marriage will benefit your children? Considering that she has vetoed a trial separation and you 'have to stay around', what good will an open marriage bring?

Eric Cartman

OP , it sound like she wants a babysitter around so she can finish college and let the kids grow up while she's off riding around. If you stay now Ill bet that she'll be the one talking about separation once the kids are old enough to look after themselves.

Even her not minding you riding around is a big warning sign that she doesn't care about having you around as much as you do her.

Exclamation Marc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

OP , it sound like she wants a babysitter around so she can finish college and let the kids grow up while she's off riding around. If you stay now Ill bet that she'll be the one talking about separation once the kids are old enough to look after themselves.

Even her not minding you riding around is a big warning sign that she doesn't care about having you around as much as you do her.

It does sound like that because she is in college, she wants a babysitter because she may not be able to afford it or manage both and have a social life.

As I said in my earlier post, I can't understand the position. Most people would agree to an open marriage under duress because they don't want to separate and it's better 'for the kids' to appear together. But she has no leverage, so you don't have to do this. She WON'T end the marriage but does this.

She's having her cake and eating it.

Shrap

collie12 wrote: »

@seamus, you've hit nail on head there. She has this new found freedom and doesn't give a toss about me or kids for that matter. She just wants to be free and single again. i know she has been faithful,I believe her when she says she has,but sooner or later she will.

Oh ok. Young, free and single.....right. In spite of not being young, free and single. That's nice for her :rolleyes: Just don't fall for this crap in the article Seamus posted, for jaysus sake:

When my wife told me she wanted to open our marriage and take other lovers, she wasn’t rejecting me, she was embracing herself. When I understood that, I finally became a feminist.

I have rarely read such bollix in my life. And I'm female, but am very much about equality for ALL (very much questioning if I'm "feminist" any more). If this is feminism, tell it to shove it up the nearest available orifice.

Ursus Horribilis

Sorry OP but this has nothing to do with feminism. It's good old-fashioned adultery mixed with pragmatism if you ask me. It's obvious that she wants to ride around but it'll be made infinitely easier if you're sat at home minding the children. If things continue much as they are, she can afford to go to college and have a free babysitter at home. A separation would throw a spanner in the works.

I really don't know what to say to you. Sad to say, I think your marriage is in deep deep sh!t and there are no winners.

ManOfMystery

As many have said OP, she wants to have her cake and eat it.

You have 2 options here. You can go ahead with the open marriage, which is totally contrary to what your heart and head is obviously telling you. You'll 'keep' your wife, but will have to put up with the thought of her with other people, and I can promise you that resentment will build and self-respect, pride and your faith in your own marriage will diminish.

Or, you can tell her it's one or the other - marriage with you, or single life - and let her go if she chooses the single life.

Neither is an easy choice, and neither is going to have a good outcome. You have to prepare yourself for that. But one of them choices will let you move on with your life and not become brow-beaten and defeatist because your wife is (frankly) taking the p1ss, and the other won't.

Far off fields often look green, and this freedom she seems to want may not be so appealing once the initial novelty wears off and she realises what she's given up for it. In a perfect world, none of us (especially with children involved) want a marriage to end, but you will be a stronger and happier father going it alone than sitting at home wondering who your wife is with tonight. Children aren't stupid, and that anxiety and lack of respect between you and your wife will eventually be obvious to them. They shouldn't have to believe that a marriage like that is normal.

LegacyUser

So had the talk last night, basically told her that I don't want to go ahead with this, and I believe a seperation is the only way forward. So we've agreed that it's too close to Xmas and I'm gonna move out in new year. Knock that open marriage out of her head. She said it was only a suggestion to see if it could save our marriage? How could both of us sleeping with other people save our marriage is what I told her. There is already something wrong so that is definitely not the answer. Thank you everyone for advise, really helped

zoobizoo

I'd try to get to the bottom of the "not being mentally stimulated" comment which is the big thing here for me.

It's saying to me: I'll come home and chat about some day to day stuff with you.... just the day to day, the kids, what's for dinner etc but when I'm out meeting people I'll be communicating in a more meaningful way with people who 'get me'.

OP, do you share a similar sense of humour, had you been communicating well before now?

If I didn't find someone mentally stimulating, I couldn't stay in a relationship with them.... so like others have said, she is trying to have her cake.

Sounds like she doesn't want a relationship with you but wants the comfort.

LegacyUser

zoobizoo wrote: »

I'd try to get to the bottom of the "not being mentally stimulated" comment which is the big thing here for me.

It's saying to me: I'll come home and chat about some day to day stuff with you.... just the day to day, the kids, what's for dinner etc but when I'm out meeting people I'll be communicating in a more meaningful way with people who 'get me'.

OP, do you share a similar sense of humour, had you been communicating well before now?

If I didn't find someone mentally stimulating, I couldn't stay in a relationship with them.... so like others have said, she is trying to have her cake.

Sounds like she doesn't want a relationship with you but wants the comfort.

So we've talked last night, told her how I feel and we've agreed to a seperation in new year(couldn't disrupt kids before Xmas) idea of an open marriage out the window. Don't want to, but I honestly think it will be good for both of us if we are to get through this. Thanks for all the advice

ManOfMystery

For what it's worth, you're doing the right thing. A little bit of space can sometimes work wonders. But in saying that, be sensible too - if she is indecisive and back & forth about how she feels from Near Year onwards, don't let it drag on forever. It wouldn't be fair on you.

suicide_circus

She's the one who wants to ride around, why are you leaving the family home?

Keane2baMused

OP I would seek legal advice BEFORE you leave the family home. Best of luck

arayess

Keane2baMused wrote: »

OP I would seek legal advice BEFORE you leave the family home. Best of luck

i already took this advice , so I'll tell you .
Don't leave the family home until an agreement is hammered out legally.
Under no circumstances.
You lose a lot of protection when you leave the family home.

if it goes tits up (which it could well) and ends up in court the judge will say she is grand at home and you are grand in a bedsit because that's where you are anyway. They don't really change things too much unless they have to.

Also don't financially over commit , don't agree to pay for anything beyond half of what your kids need. You will need you money to look after yourself and pay for your new life.
It's easy to think you will cough up loads of money and that will help the kids but the reality is that you need to have a life yourself and there is a limit to what the kids need the rest will only be a bonus for your wife.
Also she needs to commit to half the kids upkeep.
It might sound mean to play hardball on this but you'll be glad when you have a new life up and running that you did. A person happy with their lot in life is a better parent than a miserable person.
Best of luck

fits

arayess wrote: »

Also don't financially over commit , don't agree to pay for anything beyond half of what your kids need. You will need you money to look after yourself and pay for your new life.
It's easy to think you will cough up loads of money and that will help the kids but the reality is that you need to have a life yourself and there is a limit to what the kids need the rest will only be a bonus for your wife.
Also she needs to commit to half the kids upkeep.

This advice is not appropriate for all situations!

OP, good luck. I hope it all works out ok.

mapaca

I'm glad you shelved the open marriage idea! As others have said, get a separation agreement in place before you go anywhere. Just a few questions to think about:
Is it going to be on a trial basis?
For how long?
Will you see a mediator or counsellor during this time?
Who should be the one to move out?
How do you plan to explain things to the kids?

Best of luck OP.

arayess

fits wrote: »

This advice is not appropriate for all situations!

OP, good luck. I hope it all works out ok.

maybe not , but the judge will see to that.
No way should the OP walk into a situation voluntarily handing over more than he needs which is what I was implying. naturally if the judge orders it or it is agreed to between legal teams then fire away.

It might be mean playing hardball on the money but he needs to protect himself.

manonboard

Absolutely dont do this OP. I live a polyamorous lifestyle so im all for open relationships.
However if you feel your stomach turns about this, and your doing it to accomodate anothers wishes when its not your own. Its a absolute disaster waiting to happen. These things are very tricky to learn and sustain well, even under good circumstances. If there is relationship problems already. It's a titantic.
I could PM you a group that meets monthly if your interested in learning more about it, but i can safely say i'd place money on it being a total wreck in your circumstances.

If i may suggest. Have a sit down the best you can and try ask yourself what your needs/preferences are for a relationship.
This is good to be done almost independantly from your partners needs. There is no moral wrongness in realising that some choices no longer suit you. Every day is just a learning experience.

If i may also point out. The noble effort of doing it for the children, seems well on top, but its often a catastrophe in my experience. I think a much better lesson for children to learn is that if they make a choice, they are free to change thier minds in future guilt free to choose a path that makes them happy. Two loving parents only need to love thier children, they dont need to be together for that. Its the chaotic arguing and hurt feelings and resentment and guilt that will feck up a kid.

Note: Im not against any eating cake and having it too.. Infact i think its the best solution for many. However, it needs to be done in a ethical, fair way, that actually looks after everyones needs/dynamic in positive, growth supporting way... Duress and doing it for others is a massive timebomb going to go off. If you think there are difficult feelings now.. wait until you see your partner sharing things with another lover that they arent interested in sharing with you... It has to start from a good platform.