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Civil Engineering - We need to talk about money

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Alkers


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    Find the EI survey good

    To counter the above, I'm finding the opposite. There is massive churn the last month or so. Big money offers all of a sudden

    Companies do have cashflow issues (hence pension stoppage etc) but the short term outlook is very positive and staff retention is difficult

    That's good, I haven't been keeping my ear to the ground as I'm relatively specialised but good that things are picking up. It was quite frustrating to be busy as ever but companies moaning about wages etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Whatcar212 wrote: »
    This exactly sums up a family member of mine. He is on 55K

    One of the problems in Ireland is the attitude of not talking to each other about salary.

    If everyone communicated and knew what everyone else was making then it empowers everyone when it comes to salary negotiation.
    He is being pretty badly shafted there, he should shop around asap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Whatcar212


    Alkers wrote: »
    He is being pretty badly shafted there, he should shop around asap.

    Interesting, I'll put this to him and see what he says.

    What would be the expectation for someone of that level? Given he has 10 years experience and is chartered with ICE.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not really black and white.......... if he's on €55k and the location suits and he's not doing much over 40 hours/week that might well be preferable to getting €65k somewhere else where the above 40 hours/week expectation is significantly more.

    All considered though €55k isn't great for his experience IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Augeo wrote: »
    It's not really black and white.......... if he's on €55k and the location suits and he's not doing much over 40 hours/week that might well be preferable to getting €65k somewhere else where the above 40 hours/week expectation is significantly more.

    All considered though €55k isn't great for his experience IMO.

    He's still underpaid, the company don't factor in how close he lives to the office on their salary calculations.

    The only thing is, as its hard enough for us to know well we're being paid ATM, it's also quite difficult for companies to keep tab as to how well they stack up.

    I know when I got an much better offer and moved jobs, many of my previous peers got a decent increase


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  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Alkers wrote: »
    He's still underpaid, the company don't factor in how close he lives to the office on their salary calculations.

    ....
    Indeed, I did say .....

    All considered though €55k isn't great for his experience IMO.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Clearly I'm underpaid going by the comments above, but then I'm balancing that against short commute, a company with great flexibility and other benefits like a good pension set up and annual leave and that.For the time of life that I'm at with small kids etc., I'm going to stick with it. Not much choice really.



    As regards the future for WFH for us, they are looking at an entitlement of a maximum of 3 days per week from home for everybody. Now the way our place is set up, we are spread across a few locations, so it does suit in a way. How the IT systems in the office, or the desk set-up will work though, I'm not sure.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    shesty wrote: »
    Clearly I'm underpaid going by the comments above, but then I'm balancing that against short commute, a company with great flexibility and other benefits like a good pension set up and annual leave and that................

    All the things you list are significant IMO.
    €10k extra salary is less than €5k/extra into the pocket ............ is €100 ish/week worth 2 hours extra in the car etc etc etc

    And I'm fond of my few €.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Exactly, you do come to realise it's not just all about the gross amount you get paid.
    Obviously - within reason, now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Alkers wrote: »
    I posted in the engineering jobs available thread but the courts service are looking for a Chartered Energy Engineer / Building Service Engineer with ten years experience, which they expect to be able to attract with a salary of 32k

    https://www.courts.ie/careers

    This has been posted again wit hthe exact same requirements, except that 10 year's experience has been reduced to 6. Still looking for someone Chartered for 32k

    https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/405d88d9-ab5c-4bc9-8d0a-1baaaad7111b/Sustainability%20Unit%20Court%20Service%20Booklet%20FINAL%20for%20dates%20%5B2%5D.doc/file#view=fitH


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  • Registered Users Posts: 35 littlemissfraze


    A salary of €32,000 is way too low for a Chartered Engineer.

    I can't believe they put the competition on hold to review the requirements after our emails and came up with reducing from 10 years to 6 years. I'm going to email careers @ courts.ie again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Alkers wrote: »
    This has been posted again wit hthe exact same requirements, except that 10 year's experience has been reduced to 6. Still looking for someone Chartered for 32k

    https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/405d88d9-ab5c-4bc9-8d0a-1baaaad7111b/Sustainability%20Unit%20Court%20Service%20Booklet%20FINAL%20for%20dates%20%5B2%5D.doc/file#view=fitH

    I was coming on to post specifically about this job.

    I am a building services engineer with 6 years experience and working on my chartership now. So this in theory would be an interesting job proposition for me.

    These lads/ladies are taking the absolute mick with this posting. The people posting these ads are probably on the old contract themselves looking at a defined benefit pension, lump sum and probably on 80k+ easily.

    You should not be able to hire a chartered engineer with the roles and responsibilites desired for that level of pay. Its unbelievable how out of touch these people must be.

    Every other type of employer would offer pay and benefits far in excess of what they are offering .
    For 5years experience and recently chartered you should be on 50k+ at least in consultancy , substantially more on the construction side. You would be working your way up the increments 9-10 years before you would match pay with industry, and if you were in industry you would be on proably 70k at that stage.

    Engineer grade 3 is the lowest engineer grade - Usually reserved for graduates or similar . This is a grade 2 job.

    https://www.forsa.ie/other-benefits/pay-and-conditions/pay-scales/civil-service-payscales/

    Reading between the lines they know this and state in exception circumstances it can be negotiated but no higher than the HEO starting increment ( which is 52k)


  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    I was coming on to post specifically about this job.

    I am a building services engineer with 6 years experience and working on my chartership now. So this in theory would be an interesting job proposition for me.

    These lads/ladies are taking the absolute mick with this posting. The people posting these ads are probably on the old contract themselves looking at a defined benefit pension, lump sum and probably on 80k+ easily.

    You should not be able to hire a chartered engineer with the roles and responsibilites desired for that level of pay. Its unbelievable how out of touch these people must be.

    Every other type of employer would offer pay and benefits far in excess of what they are offering .
    For 5years experience and recently chartered you should be on 50k+ at least in consultancy , substantially more on the construction side. You would be working your way up the increments 9-10 years before you would match pay with industry, and if you were in industry you would be on proably 70k at that stage.

    Engineer grade 3 is the lowest engineer grade - Usually reserved for graduates or similar . This is a grade 2 job.

    https://www.forsa.ie/other-benefits/pay-and-conditions/pay-scales/civil-service-payscales/

    Reading between the lines they know this and state in exception circumstances it can be negotiated but no higher than the HEO starting increment ( which is 52k)

    Not even sure why they would need a chartered engineer for that role, you are not going to be signing off on anything and they are significantly reducing the pool of acceptable candidates ( says someone who isn't chartered yet :pac:)

    I think vacancies like that are setup to be filled internally, my understanding is someone in a similar public sector job for say 5 years can transfer to that role into the year 5 salary bracket but the employer has an obligation to offer to it the open jobs market also.

    Most public sector engineering roles offer quite decent salaries for the stress involved to be fair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Not even sure why they would need a chartered engineer for that role, you are not going to be signing off on anything and they are significantly reducing the pool of acceptable candidates ( says someone who isn't chartered yet :pac:)

    I think vacancies like that are setup to be filled internally, my understanding is someone in a similar public sector job for say 5 years can transfer to that role into the year 5 salary bracket but the employer has an obligation to offer to it the open jobs market also.

    Most public sector engineering roles offer quite decent salaries for the stress involved to be fair.

    I would normally agree with you, but they couldnt have anyone on staff doing that work which isnt an engineer grade 3 already as there are no lower grades so its a strange one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 SteadyNed


    Just saw this on Linkedin. I wonder how many other industries would have to advertise 'no weekend work' as a significant job benefit!


    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/breagh-recruitment_lead-civil-engineer-with-roads-design-experience-activity-6813043525618286592-4V-v


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    SteadyNed wrote: »
    Just saw this on Linkedin. I wonder how many other industries would have to advertise 'no weekend work' as a significant job benefit!


    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/breagh-recruitment_lead-civil-engineer-with-roads-design-experience-activity-6813043525618286592-4V-v
    Tis grand they just work ya like a dog for 5 days of the week to make up for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Alkers wrote: »
    This has been posted again wit hthe exact same requirements, except that 10 year's experience has been reduced to 6. Still looking for someone Chartered for 32k

    https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/405d88d9-ab5c-4bc9-8d0a-1baaaad7111b/Sustainability%20Unit%20Court%20Service%20Booklet%20FINAL%20for%20dates%20%5B2%5D.doc/file#view=fitH

    I also contacted the IEI who told me that the median salary for a chartered engineer with 6-10 years experience was 53k but said they wouldn't be making any representations to the courts service.

    I though that this was exactly the kind of reason we pay for membership of a representative body?!?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    EI are as useful as chocolate teapots.

    If you've ever had to actually deal with them for a problem etc they'll show their absolute incompetence.

    Colect the subs from us and collect their wages.
    Seems to be extent of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭onrail


    Deleted (wrong thread)

    Post edited by onrail on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    EI salary report if any use to people



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭onrail


    Consultancy still looking poor enough, all things considered.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Speaking as someone that works in a consultancy I find the reality is far better than the survey suggests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭onrail


    Interesting. I'm at the lower end of the ranges having jumped into public sector a few years back. Might be tempted back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭Bsharp


    There's alot more work than people so make sure it's worth your while



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Exactly.

    Private sector contractor hourly rates have increased significantly as have salaries.

    Staff where I work now get €3,000 per person that they recruit, a sign of the times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭onrail


    Do you mean that workload is such that I'd want to demand a considerable premium to move? Despite the 'public sector' image, things are fairly crazy where I am at the moment. May as well get paid for the stress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Personally, if I were in Public Sector I'd stay there.

    You'd know better than me but my opinion has always been that the Public Sector is all about payscales (and pension).

    Time served gets you up those scales. Leaving means if you ever want to go back, say in 10 years, you'll be on today's money.

    Also time served and getting to know a few people is very handy when a more senior role appears. In many councils for instance most Senior Exec roles are for the Execs, those from Private Sector will get in as Exec only (unless we're talking Celtic Tiger levels of employment).


    Second reason is security. There are swings and roundabouts in economies but Public Sector will get paid.

    Private is fine this year but looked ropey back end of last year. And during Covid my place were all on a 4 day week.

    What if these collapsing banks and rising interest rates slow things down a bit? I work for a very good Private employer. But I am under no illusions that my job is in any way guaranteed. If the company has any bother I am but a number. Public Sector is unsackable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    Been a long time since I saw this thread. Last time I posted I was 1 year in and on 32k. Seven years experience and up to 80k now, but mainly because I have moved to Denmark during the pandemic.

    When I came over here first, I was absolutely blitzing my mates in Ireland with the same level of experience, but they have actually managed to catch up after tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭onrail


    Are there lads in Ireland on 80k with 7 years experience?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭onrail


    Would you apply the same thought process to semi state? I'm looking at a role which offers slightly better pay, but not to consultancy levels.

    As far as I can see, the pension isn't as good, but security should be ok?



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