Focus Van VRT increase

zep

So I ordered a new focus van roughly 6 weeks ago, agreed extras price etc. Paid deposit. VRT at time I paid deposit was €200, got a call from dealer this week to say government have changed rules and now they want 13.5% VRT works out roughly €2800. So I know there have been no changes from revenue in relation to this. Where do I stand? Anyone else in the same boat?

galwaytt

zep wrote: »

So I ordered a new focus van roughly 6 weeks ago, agreed extras price etc. Paid deposit. VRT at time I paid deposit was €200, got a call from dealer this week to say government have changed rules and now they want 13.5% VRT works out roughly €2800. So I know there have been no changes from revenue in relation to this. Where do I stand? Anyone else in the same boat?

Get a 2nd opinion, try another dealer or two.
If it really has gone up, then maybe it's time to look at a different vehicle. ...

martinr5232

I work in a ford dealers and just heard about this today dont know any details though.

colm_mcm

Yep, R.O.R told us about this Last week.

Odd that the vrt was only €200 in the first place
Food have someone very creative in their commercial vehicles division.

R.O.R wrote: »

They haven't been advertising it for a while, but it was still available to order.

Haven't had a Kuga price list through for a while to see if there is still technically a 4 seat version available, but I reckon it will be a while before we see one.

Ford have dropped the Kuga Zetec spec, so now only Titanium available to order. Whether that is the same in 2 seat/4 seat commercial? No idea - was news to our contact in Ford that the Zetec had gone from the passenger model.

There was also a surprise mail on Monday to say the Focus Van was now a Cat B commercial (13.3% VRT) rather than a Cat C (€200) commercial, with immediate effect and further information / pricing will be sent when it's available.

There are some very good deals on the passenger cars though.

If you signed a standard order form, then there would be a clause saying taxes could change.
Don't know where that leaves you with your deposit, but they certainly won't have to honour the original price.

George Dalton

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yep, R.O.R told us about this Last week.

Odd that the vrt was only €200 in the first place
Ford have someone very creative in their commercial vehicles division.

Definitely! Don't know how they were getting away with the €200 VRT tbh. I wonder does the same apply to other vans in the same class? Were VW at the same craic with the Golf etc?

CIP4

George Dalton wrote: »

Definitely! Don't know how they were getting away with the €200 VRT tbh. I wonder does the same apply to other vans in the same class? Were VW at the same craic with the Golf etc?

The golf is 3 door though so might get away with it. I would have thought the fact the focus is 5 door is part of the issue 5 door car derived vans are only a fairly new thing there have been 3 door for a long time with no issue. Maybe I'm wrong though and they are just clamping down across the board.

I remember seeing somewhere about the fact that if they are done in the factory like the current golf and focus were they actually come with no rear seats they get the VRT for 200 whereas the Leon was caught for the 13.3 % VRT from late last year because it was coming in as a car and being converted in Ireland I think seat have dropped the Leon van now.

martinr5232

The focus are converted cars done in cork.
There is supposed to be a factory built one coming.

CIP4

martinr5232 wrote: »

The focus are converted cars done in cork.
There is supposed to be a factory built one coming.

I thought the focus was already being done in the factory but obviously not so. The mk7 golf van is done in the factory I'm nearly sure.

colm_mcm

CIP4 wrote: »

The golf is 3 door though so might get away with it. I would have thought the fact the focus is 5 door is part of the issue 5 door car derived vans are only a fairly new thing there have been 3 door for a long time with no issue. Maybe I'm wrong though and they are just clamping down across the board.

I remember seeing somewhere about the fact that if they are done in the factory like the current golf and focus were they actually come with no rear seats they get the VRT for 200 whereas the Leon was caught for the 13.3 % VRT from late last year because it was coming in as a car and being converted in Ireland I think seat have dropped the Leon van now.

Auris van is 5 door, as is the Astra

CIP4

colm_mcm wrote: »

Auris van is 5 door, as is the Astra

Oh I know they are now but they weren't upto recently previous generation was 3 door in the auris. I think it definitely comes down to whether it is a car or van when it leaves the factory well that's what revenue judge it on now whereas that previously didn't matter as they always came as cars and were converted.

MuppetCheck

The megavan back in the day was a 5 door too technically.

colm_mcm

MuppetCheck wrote: »

The megavan back in the day was a 5 door too technically.

Pretty half-assed looking too, usually with fancy vinyl decals to distract you from the horror of the doors being bricked up.

colm_mcm

A Category C vehicle is a commercial vehicle, an agricultural tractor or a bus with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver's seat. In EU terms, Category C vehicles include N2 vehicles (over 3.5 tonnes and under 12 tonnes in weight), N3 vehicles (over 12 tonnes in weight), M2 vehicles (under 5 tonnes in weight, with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver's seat) and M3 vehicles (over 5 tonnes in weight, with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver's seat).
N1 vehicles that, at the time of manufacture, have less than four seats and have a technically permissible maximum laden mass weight that is greater than 130 per cent of the mass in service of the vehicle with bodywork in running order also fit into this category.
T1 to T5 agricultural vehicles fit into this category.
The VRT rate applicable to Category C vehicles is a flat rate of €200.

.

zep

Cheers for the replies, but in relation to a clause starting that taxes etc could change I can't see how that could be right. I've given a deposit agreed sale price but they can change that price anytime after order? Their argument is that revenue have changed the law, which they haven't, hence the extra 2.5k.
Cheers

ants09

VRT Category C – Heavy Commercial Vehicles

The VRT rate applicable to Category C vehicles is a flat rate of €200.


VRT Category C (EU Categories M2, M3, N2, N3, T1 to T5)
A VRT Category C vehicle is a bus with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver’s seat, a
commercial vehicle over 3.5 tonnes, an agricultural tractor or a listed vehicle. Please refer to
Appendix 3 for more detail. Vehicles classified as EU Categories M2, M3, N2, N3, T1 to T5
are charged VRT at €200.


VRT Category B – Light commercial Vehicles

The rate of VRT applicable to Category B vehicles, subject to a minimum VRT of €125, is 13.3% of the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP).


VRT Category B (EU Category N1)
Vehicles classified as EU Category N1 (light commercial vehicle) are generally VRT
Category B vehicles and liable to VRT at 13.3% based on the OMSP with a minimum charge
of €125.00.
However, certain vehicles, that at all stages of manufacture are classified as EU Category N1
vehicles with less than 4 seats, and have, at any stage of manufacture, a technically
permissible maximum laden mass weight that is greater than 130% of the mass in service of
the vehicles with bodywork in good running order, and are designed and constructed for the
carriage of goods with a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes, are VRT Category C and
8
Revenue Operational Manual VRT Section 1
are charged VRT of €200 subject to the correct documentation accompanying the vehicle e.g.
Certificate of Conformity/NSSTA/IVA.

aaakev

zep wrote: »

Cheers for the replies, but in relation to a clause starting that taxes etc could change I can't see how that could be right. I've given a deposit agreed sale price but they can change that price anytime after order? Their argument is that revenue have changed the law, which they haven't, hence the extra 2.5k.
Cheers

But the dealer hasn't changed the price, revenue have. The dealer is making nothing more on the deal than they were before. I feel for you op but you can't expect the dealer to take the hit here although a chat with the sales manager might do some good to soften the blow, i know if it was my customer coming to me with the same issue id do what i could to help them out even of that meant making less of a margin than originally agreed or giving something extra to them

zep

aaakev wrote: »

But the dealer hasn't changed the price, revenue have. The dealer is making nothing more on the deal than they were before. I feel for you op but you can't expect the dealer to take the hit here although a chat with the sales manager might do some good to soften the blow, i know if it was my customer coming to me with the same issue id do what i could to help them out even of that meant making less of a margin than originally agreed or giving something extra to them

Cheers for reply and I'll be discussing options with the dealer. But I think you missed my point, revenue haven't changed anything recently. It's obviously how Ford interpretation of the rules seems to have been wrong, or they were just bending the rules to compete with the Golf.
Cheers

aaakev

zep wrote: »

Cheers for reply and I'll be discussing options with the dealer. But I think you missed my point, revenue haven't changed anything recently. It's obviously how Ford interpretation of the rules seems to have been wrong, or they were just bending the rules to compete with the Golf.
Cheers

If thats the case and they were mistaken it will be a mistake at distributor level in which case i would really push that fact with the dealer and if they are reluctant to help escalate it to ford ireland yourself

Henry Ford & Son Ltd
Elm Court
Boreenmanna Road
Cork
T12HHW2


Telephone: 1800 771199

R.O.R

Have Ford increased the price of the Focus van rather than taking the hit themselves?

There are other cat b commercials that are cheaper than the Focus, so I see no reason it has to go up at all.

If Ford don't absorb the price increase, them cancel the order and get an i Pro instead.

Christyd

A mate has a new Focus van ordered for 161 and price is being kept as agreed

celtic_oz

Whats it failing on .. the 130% or the fact it's delivered here then changed ?

R.O.R

celtic_oz wrote: »

Whats it failing on .. the 130% or the fact it's delivered here then changed ?

"unforeseen changes to the engineering process on Focus Van" is the official (and suitably vague) explanation.

That was the 23rd November with more information and updated price list to follow in the coming days. Haven't had any further communication since.

Jesper

Christyd wrote: »

A mate has a new Focus van ordered for 161 and price is being kept as agreed

I had a price agreed for the new Focus but when I went to confirm extra's etc. I was told of the price change "literlly this morning". So now a new Focus is well off my list. The only viable options as I see it are

Golf
i-Pro (but frustratingly this only seems to come int the 1.4td)
I felt cramped in the Auris so it's off my list.

Or second hand.

zep

They convert in Cork I've been informed.. so they don't qualify for the €200 VRT. Don't know how they been getting away with it for last 3 or do years. Very frustrating.....

zep

Christyd wrote: »

A mate has a new Focus van ordered for 161 and price is being kept as agreed

Can you send details of Dealer etc. Might be able to use as leverage.

R.O.R

zep wrote: »

They convert in Cork I've been informed.. so they don't qualify for the €200 VRT. Don't know how they been getting away with it for last 3 or do years. Very frustrating.....

Most Irish commercials need some form of conversion in country. They leave the country without the rear seats, but the flat floor, rear carpets, window blanking and bulkhead are fitted locally.

No idea what has changed, but I'd say Ford annoyed the wrong person in Revenue/NSAI with the 4 Seat Kuga Commercial, so everything got scrutinized.

Christyd

He said if he had deal done and his name on car before increase announced they will keep €200 Vrt
I'll get him to check why his dealer can do this before naming

zep

Christyd wrote: »

He said if he had deal done and his name on car before increase announced they will keep €200 Vrt
I'll get him to check why his dealer can do this before naming

Great, appreciate that

colm_mcm

Hi wonder how much he's paying though. Odd that they could just drop 2 grand on the deal.