City/Urban commuters letting drivers in from the bus lane!

John_Rambo

Yeah, I know... it's not cool to drive in the bus lane, undertake a load of drivers and then nip back in. BUT... here's what happened to me a while a go.

Morning creche/work Autumn commute. I was driving in the driving lane in traffic in my small, classy, aged, French, rouge, 1.2 litre petrol town car when I became very aware of a Merc driving about two millimetres behind me.. I mean, he was glued to me, accelerating and jamming on to maintain the smallest distance between us. We were going slow, but his car was nearly doing handstands when I slowed down! Turns out, he was blocking someone from nipping in to the lane from the bus lane.

I felt he was too close, so I slowly stopped and let the "nipper" in in front of me. He went mental. Revving the engine, head out the window, beeping the horn etc... then, he bumped me!! Not intentionally, but he still bumped me. I stopped, he stopped and he got out of the car to inform me what a cu.. I was and that I shouldn't have let that f er out in to the traffic. I pointed out that the "nipper" was in a car park and turned left to join the bus lane and I simply let her in to the lane because I thought it would calm down the situation.

When I put my hand on his suited chest, pushed him away from me, pointed out I had a small kid in the car and that he actually rear ended me and asked him to calm down, ease off on the lingo he turned in to the nicest man I've ever met. Even offered me money! (€50) I turned him down and took a photo of his details with my phone and headed off.

I didn't follow it up, the 12 year old Clio is ok. His new Merc has a scratch on his colour coded bumper.

Do you let nippers in to the bus lane or do you aggressively block them? Do you think I should have let the nipper in? I thought it was the right thing to do but I wasn't expecting him to keep up the aggression.

Some people need to get up earlier I guess.

NickDunne

This should be an interesting topic...

I really don't mean to take this away from buslanes but the same applies to the M50. Try driving a Renault Master(with what feel like clio brakes) when its fully loaded and trying to maintain a safe braking distance... Impossible. Perfect "nipping" room for arseholes who have no consideration for anyone outside of their metal bubble.

I have been caught out a number of times where I have applied the appropriate brake pedal pressure to slow down safely from the car in front when a "nipper" jumps in trying to get ahead and all of a sudden I'm having to jam on, either upsetting my load or upsetting my bowels from the suddenly reduced braking distance.

In general, even if it means gaining ONE car length, people have become unbelievably impatient lately with regards to switching lanes.

whiterebel

Leave them out in the bus lane.

John_Rambo

NickDunne wrote: »

This should be an interesting topic...

I really don't mean to take this away from buslanes but the same applies to the M50. Try driving a Renault Master(with what feel like clio brakes) when its fully loaded and trying to maintain a safe braking distance... Impossible. Perfect "nipping" room for arseholes who have no consideration for anyone outside of their metal bubble.

I have been caught out a number of times where I have applied the appropriate brake pedal pressure to slow down safely from the car in front when a "nipper" jumps in trying to get ahead and all of a sudden I'm having to jam on, either upsetting my load or upsetting my bowels from the suddenly reduced braking distance.

In general, even if it means gaining ONE car length, people have become unbelievably impatient lately with regards to switching lanes.

Yep... Excellent and valid point. And one I'll take in to consideration next time I change lane NickDunne! Thanks. It's easy to forget a large van can be hauling a few tonnes, I'd usually wait for a main beam flash from vans, trucks, lorries etc.. particularly if they have JETFUEL stamped across the back!

NickDunne

John_Rambo wrote: »

Yep... Excellent and valid point. And one I'll take in to consideration next time I change lane NickDunne! Thanks. It's easy to forget a large van can be hauling a few tonnes, I'd usually wait for a main beam flash from vans, trucks, lorries etc.. particularly if they have JETFUEL stamped across the back!

In your situation, I can sympathise with the merc driver's frustrations but he handled it completely the wrong way. The way I used to react.

The key is to look at the big picture.. how much did that particular incident cost him timewise? 20 seconds max? (Which ironically could set him on a good run of green lights) But the fact he hit you cost him at least 15-20 mins and potentially an insurance claim had you pursued it.

Lets be brutally honest, the ONLY people that time matters to on the road are the emergency services. EVERYTHING else is irrelevent, including your own bubble.

Like you said the lane switching thing is an epidemic lately

Senecio

If they've come out of a side road or car park and they've used the bus lane to come up to speed for a short distance before merging to the driving lane, yes absolutely.

If they left the driving lane with the sole intent of picking up a couple of spaces, not a chance

Jesus.

NickDunne wrote: »

In your situation, I can sympathise with the merc driver's frustrations:(

I can't. He's clearly a moron

NomadicGray

I know why people get upset over it, but it's really very petty not to let someone in, in some cases holding up more traffic, for zero benefit to yourself.

NickDunne

Jesus. wrote: »

I can't. He's clearly a moron

His frustrations I said, not his actions

ironclaw

Senecio wrote: »

If they've come out of a side road or car park and they've used the bus lane to come up to speed for a short distance before merging to the driving lane, yes absolutely.

You don't use a bus lane to merge. You cannot drive in it. You must exit and merge where the junction is. The problem is people take liberties with 'merging' and it soon becomes 200m of merging.

If you cut the bus lane, I'm not letting you in. And I'm not sorry for it. I'll keep you there as long as I possibly can to that you can lose every second you arrogantly gained. Its the equivalent of standing in a queue and someone just jumping in at the front.

Zubeneschamali

If you are driving in a bus lane or a left-only lane, you are welcome to merge into my lane.

Behind me.

BraveDonut

If all drivers left them in the bus lane they would soon stop using the bus lane and drive with the same 'manners' as everyone else.
The only reason that drivers engage in this type of behaviour is that there is always someone to let them back in.

whomitconcerns

As above if I know someone haș just come from a side road yes. If not I will not give you an inch. Especially fun if you see someone tearing along in the bus lane coming from behind when there is a checkpoint ahead they try to shoot into driving lane...in that case you ain't getting a millimetre!!! Before any one says its m an/petty afaik you risk it you get caught once in a while. If you didn't everyone would do it

Zubeneschamali

2 other points on the OP:

1) Merc man is a knob. I wouldn't let anyone merge from the bus lane, but rear ending the OP (even gently) and yelling at the OP is idiotic. I let other folks drive their car, and if they let the queue-jumpers out, I don't feel there's anything I should do about it. I just conclude they are a soft touch.

2) The OP says : I put my hand on his suited chest, pushed him away from me

This is not a good idea, it's assault.If Merc man is litigious and really angry, you could get hit with a lawsuit.

5W30

I pretty much always allow drivers to jump in ahead of me. There's no point fighting about it.

However, I recently decided to not let drivers in ahead if they're driving with no lights in the dark or heavy rain. I came across a silver Prius on the N7 today in heavy rain and the driver had no lights on at all! You could barely see him with his silver car...

Jawgap

John_Rambo wrote: »

Yep... Excellent and valid point. And one I'll take in to consideration next time I change lane NickDunne! Thanks. It's easy to forget a large van can be hauling a few tonnes, I'd usually wait for a main beam flash from vans, trucks, lorries etc.. particularly if they have JETFUEL stamped across the back!

Jet fuel is not very flammable.

It's flash point is about 40oC compared to petrol's minus 43oC flash point.

John_Rambo

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The OP says : I put my hand on his suited chest, pushed him away from me

This is not a good idea, it's assault.If Merc man is litigious and really angry, you could get hit with a lawsuit.

But not really. Nobody in Ireland gets sued for pushing someone. He was an angry man in my face misbehaving and acting like an idiot. If he tried he would get laughed out of court.

Special Circumstances

Jawgap wrote: »

Jet fuel is not very flammable.

It's flash point is about 40oC compared to petrol's minus 43oC flash point.

Basically kerosene isn't it?

Jawgap

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Basically kerosene isn't it?

A variety of it, yes.

Drop a lighted match in it and the match will go out! It's a combustible fuel rather than a flammable one.

Zubeneschamali

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nobody in Ireland gets sued for pushing someone.

I dare you to push Denis O'Brien!

NickDunne

Jawgap wrote: »

A variety of it, yes.

Drop a lighted match in it and the match will go out! It's a combustible fuel rather than a flammable one.

Tut, shhhh!

Nosssss!!!!!!! :pac:

68 lost souls

Depends if it was during bus lane hours or not.

Either way mercy driver was a dick.

As for motorways if someone is able to undercut you you are obviously in the wrong lane. Move the f... Over unless you are currently overtaking. My let peev with rush divers is how ba they are at using lanes, it's an overtaking lane not a fast lane.

You may think it's ok to stay out of there for a bit but then one driver sees you stay out then they follow suit then once there's 2 cars behind they will never pull in for fear of getting boxed in and traffic starts. Move over!

NickDunne

Nice in theory but not feasible with the amount of traffic on the m50 during rush hour. You could have a 6 lane motorway and all the lanes would still be used and jammed.

jimmycrackcorm

John_Rambo wrote:

Morning creche/work Autumn commute. I was driving in the driving lane in traffic in my small, classy, aged, French, rouge, 1.2 litre petrol town car

John_Rambo wrote:

I didn't follow it up, the 12 year old Clio is ok. His new Merc has a scratch on his colour coded bumper.

I'm just disappointed that you weren't driving a Citroen 2cv...

mfceiling

5W30 wrote: »

I pretty much always allow drivers to jump in ahead of me. There's no point fighting about it.

However, I recently decided to not let drivers in ahead if they're driving with no lights in the dark or heavy rain. I came across a silver Prius on the N7 today in heavy rain and the driver had no lights on at all! You could barely see him with his silver car...

Can you also let people jump ahead of you when you're at the shop/dentist/doctors etc.
Do not let anyone in who decides that they can't queue like the rest of us. It's drivers like you that encourages them to keep doing it.
There's a reason it's a bus lane and there's a reason why you get fined for driving in it if it's out of using hours.
I'd love to see cameras in them to stop the pricks who won't stay in the correct lane get their commupence.

creedp

:eek:

68 lost souls wrote: »

Depends if it was during bus lane hours or not.

Either way mercy driver was a dick.

As for motorways if someone is able to undercut you you are obviously in the wrong lane. Move the f... Over unless you are currently overtaking. My let peev with rush divers is how ba they are at using lanes, it's an overtaking lane not a fast lane.

You may think it's ok to stay out of there for a bit but then one driver sees you out then they follow suit then once there's 2 cars behind they will never pull in for fear of getting boxed in and traffic starts. Move over!

Why would I move over if the car in front of me if going slower than I wish to travel? On that note the M1 north in the evening is becoming a bloody car park because so many people have a crapper when a drop of rain falls pity they have to do it the outside lane. Between that and truckers having a hernia trying to overtake other trucks doing almost exactly the same speed as they are, progress is becoming painfully slow until after exit 9. Sickening in the extreme!

Jesus.

mfceiling wrote: »

Can you also let people jump ahead of you when you're at the shop/dentist/doctors etc.
Do not let anyone in who decides that they can't queue like the rest of us. It's drivers like you that encourages them to keep doing it.
There's a reason it's a bus lane and there's a reason why you get fined for driving in it if it's out of using hours.
I'd love to see cameras in them to stop the pricks who won't stay in the correct lane get their commupence.

Nonsense. If someone wants out in front of me from a Bus lane I'm not going to make a big deal of it. Offtimes they've just come out of a side street and are getting up to speed for a few meters with their indicators on looking to get in.

No offence but guys like you need to calm down because this is where a lot of road rage stems from. You're taking it too seriously.

Caliden

NickDunne wrote: »

Nice in theory but not feasible with the amount of traffic on the m50 during rush hour. You could have a 6 lane motorway and all the lanes would still be used and jammed.

I actually find the left lane the fastest/most peaceful during the M50 rush hour.

Everyone is in a rush to get out of it and move in to lane 2/3 so much so that it moves at a quicker pace.

That being said going 5 exits on it, any time you 'save' by being in a faster lane is gone if you have to stop at any stage or if you meet traffic lights when you exit so it's better for your health to just accept your fate that you're in traffic and stop trying to 'beat' it.

Zubeneschamali

Jesus. wrote: »

No offence but guys like you need to calm down because this is where a lot of road rage stems from. You're taking it too seriously.

I don't get angry at queue jumpers, I just don't help them. Why is refusing to help them "too serious", while encouraging selfish driving is A-OK?

endacl

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you are driving in a bus lane or a left-only lane, you are welcome to merge into my lane.

Behind me.

My heart agrees. My head questions the term 'my lane'.

Zubeneschamali

If the people who skip queues this way in their cars did the same at queues for a supermarket checkout or a bus stop, they would be punched several times a day.

The amazing thing is that most drivers are so helpful letting them skip, not that a some of us refuse, or a few, like Merc driver in the OP, blow a fuse.

keithclancy

If you get so angry when driving that you end up driving into the back of someone or screaming at someone when you get out of your car you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place.

I don't think you can fix that kind of behavior with any kind of training related to operating a car anyway.

In any case I'd just let someone merge, I don't know what the circumstances are, they could be from another place and unfamiliar with the layout, or not know the operating hours or just joining from a side road.

Driving on someones bumper, speeding forward and so on is what causes rolling jams in the first place.

In Germany/NL I just stay in the Right lane and let everyone drive up each others holes in the left lane, much easier.

Zubeneschamali

keithclancy wrote: »

they could be from another place and unfamiliar with the layout, or not know the operating hours or just joining from a side road

or just selfish SOBs who habitually skip queues because you let them, something you would never tolerate at the bank.

keithclancy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

or just selfish SOBs who habitually skip queues because you let them, something you would never tolerate at the bank.

It's obvious how a queue at the bank works.

It's not always so obvious what you are supposed to do in a traffic situation.

Which I hear from Irish English people all the time about getting a ticket from some country for driving in an area that doesn't allow non local cars, or getting a fine for not having a congestion zone sticker.

Or when they can't understand why people completely lose the rag with them for merging at the beginning of a slip road joining a motorway and not at the end of the slip road.

Or they think, "Why did that bus pull out" when they were supposed to give right of way to buses.

Jesus.

Clancy is correct. Comparing it to queuing in a Supermarket or Dentists is clearly stupid

ironclaw

Jesus. wrote: »

Clancy is correct. Comparing it to queuing in a Supermarket or Dentists is clearly stupid

A bus lane has a clear and defined function. If you're not a bus, taxi or cyclist during operational hours then you shouldn't be in it. Clear as day. Are you suggesting that the huge amount of repeat offenders on the N11 each day are not doing this knowingly? Its supreme arrogance.

newcavanman

whiterebel wrote: »

Leave them out in the bus lane.

unless they are a really good looking blonde female

sonny.knowles

newcavanman wrote: »

unless they are a really good looking blonde female

With big headlights.

n1ck

I hate queue bargers and it's a regular occurrence going from Kevin St towards Stephen's Green. I've had people give me the fingers and try run into the side of the car because I wouldn't let them in when they drive up the left hand lane then indicate to move in to the right hand lane because they're impatient c**ts!

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

It's obvious how a queue at the bank works.

It's not always so obvious what you are supposed to do in a traffic situation.
.

If they don't know how a bus lane works, or cannot figure out that a left turn lane is not for barging in front of traffic, they shouldn't be on the road.
Oh if only there was some kind of training program that would teach drivers the rules of the road and maybe some kind of test so we can be sure they understood the rules and are following them? Maybe there could he paper and online compilations of these rules, so people could consult them. If only!
But maybe bus lanes and giant arrows on the road are too nebulous and complex a concept for some people. I wonder if they wear velco shoes or maybe they are not allowed scissors and cutlery.

whiterebel

n1ck wrote: »

I hate queue bargers and it's a regular occurrence going from Kevin St towards Stephen's Green. I've had people give me the fingers and try run into the side of the car because I wouldn't let them in when they drive up the left hand lane then indicate to move in to the right hand lane because they're impatient c**ts!

You obviously haven't realised yet that their lives and appointments are much, much more important than yours. Therefore get off the road in future, and let them pass.

keithclancy

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If they don't know how a bus lane works, or cannot figure out that a left turn lane is not for barging in front of traffic, they shouldn't be on the road.
Oh if only there was some kind of training program that would teach drivers the rules of the road and maybe some kind of test so we can be sure they understood the rules and are following them? Maybe there could he paper and online compilations of these rules, so people could consult them. If only!
But maybe bus lanes and giant arrows on the road are too nebulous and complex a concept for some people. I wonder if they wear velco shoes or maybe they are not allowed scissors and cutlery.

So you are not allowed in a bus lane at any time (During operating hours) but yet there are entrances which require you to cross a bus lane and no road markings to tell you where should merge with traffic.

Also the sign for the operating hours of the bus lane are quite small with a lot of information on them, there should just be a sign saying open or closed instead of Mon-Fri (some hours) Sat-Sun (some hours) except bank hols etc.

That's an planning problem more than anything else due to Bus Lanes being stuck all over the place as an afterthought.

I never see the problem over here because the situation isn't allowed to exist in the first place, unless someone actually drives into the bus lane and then they cannot leave the bus lane unless they turn around or go to the next junction with lights.

See an example here ... where exactly are you supposed to cross the solid white line to join traffic, also how are you expected to read that sign while driving past at 50km/h ?

https://www.google.de/maps/@51.8964482,-8.4888876,3a,75y,27.02h,67.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s607oYd0NAD4sDcwCIe7Njg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en


To top it off it's in Irish first and English second .... so I can see that being helpful to tourists etc and it's not even clear what it's for ... is it the opening times for the local public toilets?

n1ck

whiterebel wrote: »

You obviously haven't realised yet that their lives and appointments are much, much more important than yours. Therefore get off the road in future, and let them pass.

I'll make sure to pull over next time, sure it may be an emergency.

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

So you are not allowed in a bus lane at any time (During operating hours) but yet there are entrances which require you to cross a bus lane and no road markings to tell you where should merge with traffic.

Also the sign for the operating hours of the bus lane are quite small with a lot of information on them, there should just be a sign saying open or closed instead of Mon-Fri (some hours) Sat-Sun (some hours) except bank hols etc.

That's an planning problem more than anything else due to Bus Lanes being stuck all over the place as an afterthought.

I never see the problem over here because the situation isn't allowed to exist in the first place, unless someone actually drives into the bus lane and then they cannot leave the bus lane unless they turn around or go to the next junction with lights.

See an example here ... where exactly are you supposed to cross the solid white line to join traffic, also how are you expected to read that sign while driving past at 50km/h ?

https://www.google.de/maps/@51.8964482,-8.4888876,3a,75y,27.02h,67.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s607oYd0NAD4sDcwCIe7Njg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en


To top it off it's in Irish first and English second .... so I can see that being helpful to tourists etc and it's not even clear what it's for ... is it the opening times for the local public toilets?

Of course, you are right, this sort of thing does not, cannot and will not happen in the UK: :P

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/13235980.Fined_for_entering_bus_lane_to_get_into_parking_space/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3233271/The-bus-lane-rat-traps-cost-millions-Tens-thousands-motorists-hit-heavy-fines-caught-out.html

deathtocaptcha

To all of you saying you don't let people in, this implies that you're constantly stop-starting and keeping a very close distance between the car in front...

Keeping a steady, slow pace is better than stop/starting for fuel efficiency & sanity of yourself and those behind you...

I don't understand why you'd consciously take a decision to increase the risk of you colliding with another car (by having to maintain a lesser-than-normal stopping distance) simply to prevent another car from nipping in ahead of you...

If want to teach people a lesson, why not go the whole hog and ram them? causing a scene, taking half an hour out of their day, hassling them with insurance claims and maintenance work etc..? like 'the punisher' in russia... https://youtu.be/JJALDN-3qG0

Zubeneschamali

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

If want to teach people a lesson, why not go the whole hog and ram them? causing a scene, taking half an hour out of their day, hassling them with insurance claims and maintenance work etc..?

Because there is a difference between not deliberately helping queue jumpers, and attacking people.

slimjimmc

keithclancy wrote: »

So you are not allowed in a bus lane at any time (During operating hours) but yet there are entrances which require you to cross a bus lane and no road markings to tell you where should merge with traffic.

Also the sign for the operating hours of the bus lane are quite small with a lot of information on them, there should just be a sign saying open or closed instead of Mon-Fri (some hours) Sat-Sun (some hours) except bank hols etc.

That's an planning problem more than anything else due to Bus Lanes being stuck all over the place as an afterthought.

I never see the problem over here because the situation isn't allowed to exist in the first place, unless someone actually drives into the bus lane and then they cannot leave the bus lane unless they turn around or go to the next junction with lights.

See an example here ... where exactly are you supposed to cross the solid white line to join traffic, also how are you expected to read that sign while driving past at 50km/h ?

https://www.google.de/maps/@51.8964482,-8.4888876,3a,75y,27.02h,67.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s607oYd0NAD4sDcwCIe7Njg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en


To top it off it's in Irish first and English second .... so I can see that being helpful to tourists etc and it's not even clear what it's for ... is it the opening times for the local public toilets?

You can cross a bus lane for access but you're not allowed to drive along it bus lane either on approach to an entrance or after exiting an entrance.

To enter the entrance you are required to stay in the traffic lane until you actually reach the entrance then turn across the bus lane when the safe to do so (bus lane and footpath clear).
When leaving an entrance you are required to wait for a suitable gap in both lanes and enter directly into the traffic lane, you're not allowed to drive along the bus lane to merge into the traffic lane. That's why there are no merging signs.

The solid white line does not prohibit you from using entrance or returning into traffic, you can cross it for access just like you're allowed to cross a solid white line down the centre of a road for access.

The stupidly small signage is an issue though but I don't see them being bi-lingual as being a problem.

Eric Cartman

I intentionally keep people in the bus lane in the hope the gardai come along, if your going to flout the law like that then you deserve to be caught. Its the same as if somebody was driving on the pedestrian path in my book.

mfceiling

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

To all of you saying you don't let people in, this implies that you're constantly stop-starting and keeping a very close distance between the car in front...

Keeping a steady, slow pace is better than stop/starting for fuel efficiency & sanity of yourself and those behind you...

I don't understand why you'd consciously take a decision to increase the risk of you colliding with another car (by having to maintain a lesser-than-normal stopping distance) simply to prevent another car from nipping in ahead of you...

If want to teach people a lesson, why not go the whole hog and ram them? causing a scene, taking half an hour out of their day, hassling them with insurance claims and maintenance work etc..? like 'the punisher' in russia... https://youtu.be/JJALDN-3qG0

If I'm sitting in traffic and I see someone deliberately drive up the bus lane then look to "push" in at the front, they can fcuk right off. It's not a case of keeping as tight to the car in front. They'll need a decent amount of room to push in and as sure as sh*te they won't get it from me.
Why do these people think the rules of the road don't apply to them and that they can bully their way into the front of any queue?

keithclancy

slimjimmc wrote: »

You can cross a bus lane for access but you're not allowed to drive along it bus lane either on approach to an entrance or after exiting an entrance.

To enter the entrance you are required to stay in the traffic lane until you actually reach the entrance then turn across the bus lane when the safe to do so (bus lane and footpath clear).
When leaving an entrance you are required to wait for a suitable gap in both lanes and enter directly into the traffic lane, you're not allowed to drive along the bus lane to merge into the traffic lane. That's why there are no merging signs.

The solid white line does not prohibit you from using entrance or returning into traffic, you can cross it for access just like you're allowed to cross a solid white line down the centre of a road for access.

The stupidly small signage is an issue though but I don't see them being bi-lingual as being a problem.

It's more than a small issue, it's a waste of a driving lane when it's not in operation, look around Cork City, nobody knows that their allowed to use it

Pulling out from a standing stop directly into traffic when there's a possibility to merge is not safe, that's why I picked that particular point on the map as an example, it's just after a bend so it's better to pick up speed with traffic rather than pull directly into the driving lane.

But in any case, people blaming each other for particular behavior is usually a sign of crap infrastructure and environment not bad driver education.

Jesus.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I intentionally keep people in the bus lane in the hope the gardai come along, if your going to flout the law like that then you deserve to be caught.

You shouldn't be doing that

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its the same as if somebody was driving on the pedestrian path in my book.

That's just plain mad